Lithium test iso available

johnraff · 2020-02-11 05:02:20

^^To expand on rbl's answer, if you install the experimental Lithium iso now, upgrading to the "official" version will be as simple as you say.

We don't, though, have an official upgrade path from BunsenLabs Helium to Lithium. It can be done, but needs careful research and preparation, mainly because of the changes between Debian Stretch and Buster. For most users it's simpler to do a fresh Lithium install in that case.

rbh · 2020-02-11 20:32:39

But, there is less diffenrence betwen stretch - buster, than between helium - lithium...

Distupgrade from stretch to helium should go painless.
Same with BL-upgrade. But when upgrading BL, there is more userconfigs to contemplate...

The choice between upgrade or new installation, depends on personal preferenses and the actual system.

A pc that has not much more applications than the default, then you can as well do a fresh install.
The pc with many non-default applications, it could be better to upgrade.

Last edited by rbh (2020-02-11 20:33:14)

damo · 2020-02-11 20:49:37

^ With BL there have been some big changes to the $USER setup eg WM session, autostart, bl-rc.xml, jgmenu etc.

A release upgrade is therefore not so straightforward, which has been the case ever since the early Crunchbang days. The usual advice in the past was to reinstall, as the easiest option

johnraff · 2020-02-12 00:46:47

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

But as Damo says, BL itself has changed a lot from Helium to Lithium too.

Personally, I'm wondering whether we might be able to offer some kind of automated upgrade path from Lithium to Beryllium, but that's pure imagination at this point, and will probably turn out to be very difficult...

hhh · 2020-02-12 02:23:30

johnraff wrote:

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

Case in point...

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … l#obsolete

But as Damo says, BL itself has changed a lot from Helium to Lithium too.

So there's that added to the mix as well. It's definitely doable, I'm running a lithium upgrade that started as hydrogen, so two dist-upgrades, but I have a lot of experience with Debian. We're geared at providing a Debian release that is relatively friendly to n00bs. At least, that's what I've always pushed for, and I think the Team agrees that this is the best way forward. There is a certain amount of elitist culture in Linux that I would like to see destroyed, as I think it directly negates the whole concept of Open Source. Case in point, I have no programming training, but I created the first BunsenLabs Live ISO builds and the first releases by grokking the live-build manual and mailing lists, and by working with the Team to get those first builds to a state that we could call it an Official Release (Hydrogen).

Personally, I'm wondering whether we might be able to offer some kind of automated upgrade path from Lithium to Beryllium, but that's pure imagination at this point, and will probably turn out to be very difficult...

Very difficult, absolutely. But Pure Imagination is inspiring, isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIYNk4ARUR8

rbh · 2020-02-12 11:46:50

johnraff wrote:

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

That links to upgrade advices for amd64. Better reading start is https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

There is pros and cons with choosing upgrade or new installation. If you are wery new to linux and BunsenLabs, you probably don't loose so much on doing a clean install. But, I see no reason to avoid first try upgrading, if you have many non default programs installed.
Yes, the upgrade can fail. Then new installation is only choice left. The risk for failure when upgrading to Lithium/Buster is very little.

johnraff · 2020-02-13 08:22:29

rbh wrote:

johnraff wrote:
Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html
That links to upgrade advices for amd64. Better reading start is https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

Well, that page is rather short, and it's first advice is to go back to the release notes I linked to.

My intention was not to help new users to upgrade, but to give them an idea of the possible complexities, and maybe deter them!

I see no reason to avoid first try upgrading

Fair enough. As long as you've got important data backed up, sure, give it a try.

...if you have many non default programs installed.

Here I have to disagree. I think the more unusual apps you have installed, the greater the chance of an upgrade failing.

Basically, if a user feels OK with dealing with problems that might come up, then go ahead and try an upgrade. For new users IMO it's safer to make a fresh install, preferably on a new partition so the old install remains.

DeepDayze · 2020-02-14 18:36:54

Upgrading from say Helium to Lithium may have its bumps and you may also not get the latest goodies as your $HOME will have old configs.

rbh · 2020-02-14 18:55:38

DeepDayze wrote:

Upgrading from say Helium to Lithium may have its bumps and you may also not get the latest goodies as your $HOME will have old configs.

With latest bl-configs, you are asked if you want to overwrite user-configs. Besides, yo can whenever you want, run "bl-user-setup --refresh" as user to copy settings from ../skel. Old usersettings is saved. Easy to run "meld confignew configold" to examine diff.

Last edited by rbh (2020-02-14 18:55:59)

johnraff · 2020-02-15 01:58:01

What rbl rbh says about upgrading is true, and if a user has sufficient confidence they can try it by all means.

One point I forgot to mention, which needs attention:
Sometimes packages are dropped from a new version of your distribution. That means that they will no longer be maintained or get security upgrades. However, if you upgrade your system they will still remain unless you search them out and uninstall them.

Maybe over the years you've become fond of "scrobbulator", but if it's abandoned by its developer, uses an old unsafe library and gets no security upgrades from Debian then it can be a risk to your system to keep it.
By doing a fresh install from the new repositories you will discover that scrobbulator is no longer available and will be forced to find a replacement or some other way of living without it.
If you do an upgrade then scrobbulator will remain installed unless you uninstall it yourself. (Many people prefer to live dangerously.)

Last edited by johnraff (2020-02-18 00:38:18)

hhh · 2020-02-15 08:59:57

Scrobbulater, scrabulizer and scorpulator.

We live in a society.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … robbulator

https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/

rbh · 2020-02-17 12:35:43

johnraff wrote:

What rbl says about upgrading is true, and if a user has sufficient confidence they can try it by all means.

I'm rereading "Debian Reference", found:

2.3.5. System wide upgrade
Note
When moving to a new release etc, you should consider to perform a clean installation of new system even though Debian is upgradable as described below. This provides you a chance to remove garbages collected and exposes you to the best combination of latest packages. Of course, you should make a full backup of system to a safe place (see Section 10.2, “Backup and recovery”) before doing this. I recommend to make a dual boot configuration using different partition to have the smoothest transition.

.

If the upgradepath is harsh to decide, it is possible to do both a new installation to other partition and upgrade old to new, examine both results and then determine wich too keep.
If time and / or diskspace is limited, it migt be best to upgrade , if you have a system in good health. If it has any unsolved problems, new installation is better.

damo · 2020-02-17 12:49:22

rbh wrote:

... it is possible to do both a new installation to other partition and upgrade old to new, examine both results and then determine wich too keep.
If time and / or diskspace is limited, it migt be best to upgrade , if you have a system in good health. If it has any unsolved problems, new installation is better.

That is my approach.

hhh · 2020-02-18 00:53:55

damo wrote:

rbh wrote:
... it is possible to do both a new installation to other partition and upgrade old to new, examine both results and then determine which too keep.
If time and / or diskspace is limited, it might be best to upgrade , if you have a system in good health. If it has any unsolved problems, new installation is better.
That is my approach.

Nice post, rbh.

DeepDayze · 2020-02-18 04:07:02

rbh wrote:

DeepDayze wrote:
Upgrading from say Helium to Lithium may have its bumps and you may also not get the latest goodies as your $HOME will have old configs.
With latest bl-configs, you are asked if you want to overwrite user-configs. Besides, yo can whenever you want, run "bl-user-setup --refresh" as user to copy settings from ../skel. Old usersettings is saved. Easy to run "meld confignew configold" to examine diff.

A good tip and thanks for that. Where are the old configs saved in case I need to merge old and new configs?

damo · 2020-02-18 04:59:51

DeepDayze wrote:

...
A good tip and thanks for that. Where are the old configs saved in case I need to merge old and new configs?

Until @johnraff, the BL-scripter-in-chief, chimes in: I believe the hashes are kept in ~/.cache, and individual files are kept in the original location, with a date-stamped name or in a backups dir.

Some info here:

bl-user-setup --help

grubernd · 2020-03-17 12:41:12

johnraff wrote:

lithium-dev-4-amd64.hybrid.iso:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IQGyL … Eds-jL9Uvj
sha256sum:
c5fbb45259fe40d2370f4bc6630db4edc7d96c01b0e51e83b3654392885b1116

Is that ISO still the most current Lithium to install from?
Or did I miss some announcement for a newer version?

PS: If it works so well, why not post it as the official release?

damo · 2020-03-17 12:53:53

grubernd wrote:

...
Is that ISO still the most current Lithium to install from?
Or did I miss some announcement for a newer version?
PS: If it works so well, why not post it as the official release?

Yes it is the most recent.

Because it isn't complete. There are still important fixes to be done, some themeing to sort out, and some additional goodies to be added.

johnha · 2020-03-21 18:59:04

Just tried Lithium and it looks great!

Quick question... I'm sure this is a very basic thing caused by my not being proficient with Tint2, but on my Helium installations, I have persistent buttons on my taskbar. The default ones for the file explorer, the browser, the terminal emulator, etc. (As well as ones I've added later.)

On Lithium, I don't see those buttons. I see in `~/.config/tint2/tint2rc` that there are `launcher_item_app` entries. But I'm not quite sure how to set tint2 to show those buttons.

Many thanks in advance :-)

damo · 2020-03-21 19:24:39

johnha wrote:

Just tried Lithium and it looks great!
Quick question... I'm sure this is a very basic thing caused by my not being proficient with Tint2, but on my Helium installations, I have persistent buttons on my taskbar. The default ones for the file explorer, the browser, the terminal emulator, etc. (As well as ones I've added later.)
On Lithium, I don't see those buttons. I see in `~/.config/tint2/tint2rc` that there are `launcher_item_app` entries. But I'm not quite sure how to set tint2 to show those buttons.
Many thanks in advance :-)

Look in the Help menu for Tint2 links, or

man tint2

You need to add a launcher ("L") to the panel_items

#41 2020-02-11 05:02:20

Re: Lithium test iso available

#42 2020-02-11 20:32:39

Re: Lithium test iso available

#43 2020-02-11 20:49:37

Re: Lithium test iso available

#44 2020-02-12 00:46:47

Re: Lithium test iso available

#45 2020-02-12 02:23:30

Re: Lithium test iso available

#46 2020-02-12 11:46:50

Re: Lithium test iso available

#47 2020-02-13 08:22:29

Re: Lithium test iso available

#48 2020-02-14 18:36:54

Re: Lithium test iso available

#49 2020-02-14 18:55:38

Re: Lithium test iso available

#50 2020-02-15 01:58:01

Re: Lithium test iso available

#51 2020-02-15 08:59:57

Re: Lithium test iso available

#52 2020-02-17 12:35:43

Re: Lithium test iso available

#53 2020-02-17 12:49:22

Re: Lithium test iso available

#54 2020-02-18 00:53:55

Re: Lithium test iso available

#55 2020-02-18 04:07:02

Re: Lithium test iso available

#56 2020-02-18 04:59:51

Re: Lithium test iso available

#57 2020-03-17 12:41:12

Re: Lithium test iso available

#58 2020-03-17 12:53:53

Re: Lithium test iso available

#59 2020-03-21 18:59:04

Re: Lithium test iso available

#60 2020-03-21 19:24:39

Re: Lithium test iso available

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