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#26 2015-11-14 17:33:00

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

ostrolek wrote:

what would happen if the same method used in Debian (BunsenLabs)?

I think dpkg(8) would refuse to install packages across symlinks so it probably wouldn't work at all.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#27 2015-11-14 18:25:07

nobody0
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

^ I saw the same in Fedora.
Is there a reason, why dpkg would refuse to install packages?

Last edited by nobody0 (2015-11-14 18:28:01)

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#28 2015-11-15 13:20:01

eight.bit.al
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 214

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

EDIT: 500 posts! Woot!

Whoo Hoo, I'm closing in on 20 posts. I'm not real chatty, but I'd love to say how grateful I am for all I've learned on this forum (#! and BL) and the many interesting things I've been exposed to by the efforts of you all.

best regards,
8bit

EDIT: To get back on topic, One Of These Days ®, I'm gonna install Arch just for the learning curve.

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2015-11-15 17:31:28)

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#29 2015-11-17 02:34:44

Temetka
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From: Sol System, Western Spiral Arm
Registered: 2015-10-14
Posts: 545

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Ya know, when I read the thread title I can't help but picture a virtual cage with these 2 distro's in it and and voiceless announer coming over the PA system and intorducing the contenstants.

2 Distro's enter.

1 Distro leaves.


The meaning of life is to just be alive. It is so plain and so obvious
    and so simple. And yet everybody rushes aroound in a great panic
             as if it were necessary to achieve something beyond themselves.
                                                                                                             - Alan Watts

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#30 2015-11-17 04:45:14

pa$$word
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 111

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Plenty of BL people who use Arch and vice versa.

Arch is basically a permanent alpha. You need the interest and capability to manage that. BunsenLabs is built on top of Debian stable. However, because you can also run buggy untested bleeding edge software on Debian (Sid), some BL people change it to track Debian unstable.

Both distributions appeal to people who are happy with the terminal and prefer simplicity over graphical clutter.

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#31 2015-11-17 06:53:24

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Temetka wrote:

Ya know, when I read the thread title I can't help but picture a virtual cage with these 2 distro's in it and and voiceless announer coming over the PA system and intorducing the contenstants.

well, it's potential troll fodder, or at least an endless rant...

pa$$word wrote:

Arch is basically a permanent alpha.

sorry but this is just not true.
arch is long established and uses a well-developed package management; one has to pay a little attention during upgrades, but apart from that it's pretty stable.
just don't use [testing].

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#32 2015-11-17 07:02:24

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

ohnonot wrote:

just don't use [testing]

Actually, I've been using [testing] on three machines for a few months now with no problems :D

Of course I have to use the AUR to pull my window manager from git...

Normal Arch is too stale for me :p


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#33 2015-11-17 16:51:01

pa$$word
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 111

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Maybe alpha means different things to us both. If an upstream developer releases a new major version of a package, and a couple of days later it's in Arch, what's the difference between that and an alpha release?

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#34 2015-11-17 17:57:31

Unia
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 355
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

pa$$word wrote:

Maybe alpha means different things to us both. If an upstream developer releases a new major version of a package, and a couple of days later it's in Arch, what's the difference between that and an alpha release?

The fact that it is a release, and not an alpha-release smile If a developer releases an alpha, that is (usually) not packaged. Simple.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

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#35 2015-11-18 03:51:55

pa$$word
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 111

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Well, you lot use Arch. So you know better than me.

I bleed enough on Debian stable smile

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#36 2015-11-18 06:32:24

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,590
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

pa$$word wrote:

Well, you lot use Arch. I bleed enough on Debian stable.

another goldie for the fortunes!

ps: i hope you don't mind that i edited your quote a little? i wouldn't want to distort your meaning.

Last edited by ohnonot (2015-11-18 18:00:50)

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#37 2015-11-18 10:07:15

KrunchTime
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 857

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

I think what pa$$word meant was that Arch is a permanent rolling release distro.

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#38 2015-11-21 17:25:02

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Differences ... hmmmm.

Ok, think of Arch as pulling your own eyebrows, pubic or other sensitive hairs out w a pair of pliers and BL ( majority of Debian) as a walk in the park on a sunny dy. big_smile

Messing round ( well sorta). Plenty of documentation on installing n config'ing Arch available. Though it's clearly not a hold your hand kinda distro and thereby has many inherent butt pains circumvented by installing any of a frigzillion other gnu/nix distro's.

Jmo ... though think a more natural progression is likely to produce joy. The whole crawl before walk, walk before run, n run before fly thingy. Not that Arch is so much a flying kinda thing. With so much nixy goodness in the world you don't have to look far/hard to find awesome OS's.

Do like Arch, never had any probs with it and is good nix imo. Still can't say it stands much taller than any of many others. Remember setting up an Arch install a couple times and then asking meself. Did you really just spend 12hrs doing this, when ya could've installed any of 200 other nix distros in in 20-45mins and been done ? big_smile

Arch imo is kickbutt, their doc's are top notch and the userbase is clearly above avg in terms of tech literacy. It's nix ... do whatever pleases ya.


Vll! smile

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#39 2015-11-21 18:37:25

nobody0
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

^ 12 hours?!
One hour more likely.
You can also install BL RC1 Live iso using the Arch thinking, if the installer fails (or without the installer).

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#40 2015-12-04 00:09:11

BLizgreat!
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Posts: 1,000

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Arch is from an ancient african word for "I just spent 12hrs getting X to work, when I could've just installed any of 375 other distros and been done with it." big_smile

Lmao ... messing round AND NOW DA BABBLE COMETH !

Still prefer Debian ( and BL being Debian derived has the virtue of being so.) Installed Arch a couple times through-out the years, didn't have any trouble and think it's kickbutt gnu/nix. Jmo .. though think the idea or purpose of technology is to make life easier and though it wasn't insurmountable to deal with by any means. Got the impression Arch is more geared towards fighting an enduser than majority of other nix distros. Really isn't though, people behind Arch aren't bashful about telling people do for yourself, put in the time to research and learn or go/use something more to your liking instead.

Perfectly reasonable me thinks. Upkeeping a gnu/Nix distribution takes time/effort/expense from the people behind it, it's core userbase ... so forth. So expecting endusers or people who want to be a part of that community to be willing to expend effort too is thus totally fair. Have mucho respect for the people behind Arch Linux. Gnu/Nix may be opensource and usually free but that doesn't mean every distro or community wants every single type of person using it or invited in. Arch clearly doesn't want lazy, stupid, help-vampish etc etc types involved in what they're doing.

Really don't blame them either. Many other Nix communities who feel the same and don't want those types of people crapping up something they really like and are passionate about. Are Debian ( other grandfather distro based or independent distro's) too that do xyz to discourage or keep out unsavory types too. Some very vocal, even hostile to unwanted users in the community. Just my take on it but yes, Arch and it's userbase expect people to read ( and hopefully contribute to their wiki and community) the manual. Spend some time learning and solving their own issues, learning to admin their own system(s).

My take on Debian ( thus BL) ? It's friggin kickarse dude ! More hand holding in general, more working with/for someone and an infinite amount of things a nixer can do with it, given the need, the knowledge and as per Arch the willingness to invest time and effort. Hopefully contributing something along the way, whether it be tech help, interesting/useful knowledge, cash, whatever.

Would say you won't know until you try, try them both and see what's best for you. Not all nix newbs are created equal, some are clearly predisposed techies and passionate about tech. See nixers come along and in a span of couple months are teaching people who've been using gnu/nix for years stuff. Nixers predisposed and passionate about tech. Though even those who aren't, with all the painfully detailed documentation both Arch ( and Debian) have out there if you're willing to learn the info's right there.

Wonder what it was like for the old grey neckbeards trying to figure it all out ? When it was web BBS's and barely an internet. big_smile


VLL! smile

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2015-12-04 00:19:25)

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#41 2015-12-04 02:06:06

g33zr
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From: State of Confusion
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 281

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

BLwillbegreat! wrote:

Arch is from an ancient african word for "I just spent 12hrs getting X to work, when I could've just installed any of 375 other distros and been done with it." big_smile

Lmao ... messing round AND NOW DA BABBLE COMETH !

Ah, Babble Meister, appreciate the wisdom as always. As tempted as I might be to install and config Arch or Gentoo from scratch, I confess--mea culpa--to installing one of the gazillion ready-made Linux distros like BL or Manjaro and, in your words, "be done with it."  lol


What? Me worry?

Red pill or blue pill?

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#42 2015-12-04 04:43:42

BLizgreat!
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Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

^Good 2 see ya G33zr. smile

Am occasionally tempted the same. Never tried Gentoo and it was one of the "power users" distro's of choice long before Arch existed.

Not that am implying anything negative about either. Liked Arch very much and don't doubt Gentoo is great stuff too. Jmo ... but so is Debian and for me easier to deal/get along/ with.

Guessing that's mostly just laziness, comfort zone and lack of time. Arch never gave me any trouble after taking the time to set an install up. Gentoo never tried, am guessing it'd be painful for awhile trying to get used to how it works. Once all is up, running and a person has some knowledge and experience under the belt am sure Gentoo is a walk in the park for nixers used to it.

VlBL! smile

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2015-12-04 04:46:00)

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#43 2017-03-23 06:58:57

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Revision:

Think of Arch as pulling your own fingernails out with a pair of pliers and Debian is more like getting a manicure. tongue

OK exaggerating a bit there smile. Imo what matters is knowledge and learning. Helps o course if someone is really stoked about tech. Just cause x-nixer using Debian doesn't elect to spend 4 hours getting xorg-etc working doesn't mean they lack the skill and just because x-avg-Archer does, doesn't necessarily mean they're l33t.

Still like and really have nothing per se against Arch but the misguided perception and cyber snobbish attitude expressed by many among the userbase does tend to get on my nerves. Jmo.

Vll! smile

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-03-23 06:59:42)

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#44 2017-03-23 07:41:41

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Of course Arch is harder to install these days since Alad did away with the Beginner's Guide...

I fully support the change but in practical terms it just means that more people are installing Arch by following one of the many utterly rubbish YouTube "guides" and ending up with a b0rked system that they don't know how to maintain roll


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#45 2017-03-23 08:11:11

BLizgreat!
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Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

^Woah Alad was behind the beginners guide? Speaking of Alad revision to revision my somewhat Arch bash above isn't to say there aren't plenty of kickbutt Archers among the community too.

Like hades out of Alad and have encountered plenty of cool Arch fans. As for doing away w the beginners guide not sure it's so much in Arch's best interest.

Besides the web being the web, probably won't be long before someone takes up the slack and puts up a quality Arch install resource.

Plus guessing the Manjaro userbase is likely to swell. Which hey, heard good things about that distro, shrugs. 

Gentoo ftw! big_smile

Btw: Hiya's Hoas, hope you and yours are well. OK gotta go, seems like it's been 30 mins and in reality, like 4 friggin hrs have passed!

Also a hearty hiya to all the other cool nixers here among the Bunsenlabs community. smile

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#46 2017-03-23 18:57:08

dolly
Miss Mixunderstand
From: /lab1
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 365

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

The hybrid ARCHLabs is really nice. Try it! You will like it, promise! smile


Keep BunsenLabs #!yish please.

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#47 2017-03-24 07:25:06

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Posts: 8,759
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

BLwillbegreat! wrote:

Alad was behind the beginners guide?

Alad has contributed a huge amount to the ArchWiki and he is currently one of the Administrators cool

However, there is no longer a Beginner's Guide for installing Arch Linux because it was decided to instead use the official (ie, non-community-editable) Installation Guide and incorporate links to the necessary information rather than explaining everything in-line (as was the case with the Beginner's Guide).


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#48 2017-03-24 08:41:26

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

^Didn't know, I like Alad,  can tell he's a good guy and knowledgeable/experienced nixer.

Nothing against Arch (for sure nothing against any of the kickbutt users of Arch)  but do think it's intentionally designed to be overly tedious to set-up.

Initiation kinda thing (dunno) ? Have gone through the process a few times and once someone's jumped through the required hoops, always found it to be good gnu/nix. Though nothing I can't get via Debian net install in a fraction of the time and pita.

To be honest, I just can't see what all the hubbub surrounding Arch is all about. Can be kickbutt gnu/Linux surely but so can so many others. 

PS, though hey, one of the rules of the Nixsphere, don't like it (for whatever reason), don't use it, shrugs. tongue

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-03-24 09:01:28)

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#49 2017-03-24 09:16:46

Steve
Member
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 642

Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

I like  arch as its the distro i learnt the most on due to the arch wiki, i use it on my laptop now via the arch revenge installer and have got it running openbox and tint2.

Ive done the arch install the arch way before via the wiki and with help (midfingr) but when it comes something like an installer that works out of the box you cant go past revenge installer for newbs like myself imo. https://sourceforge.net/projects/revenge-installer/

As for bunsenlabs, well im still using it for my media center and it still gets updated when they are available so i will be keeping BL for a long time as it runs a debian base and from research debian is the distro to trust for stable environments.

Last edited by Steve (2017-03-24 09:18:18)

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#50 2017-03-24 21:07:29

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Posts: 8,759
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Re: Arch Linux vs Bunsenlabs

Steve wrote:

arch revenge installer

I have never understood Arch "installers" — surely one of the benefits of Arch is that it's quicker and more flexible to install (properly) than it is to have to wade through one of those silly, bloated, bug-ridden GUI interfaces?

To install Arch on my machine now would take a grand total of 10 commands:

# mount -o subvol=Arch /dev/sda3 /mnt
# pacstrap /mnt base # any other packages go here
# arch-chroot /mnt
# ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/London /etc/localtime
# hwclock --systohc
# sed -i 's/#en_GB.UTF-8 UTF-8/en_GB.UTF-8 UTF-8/' /etc/locale.gen
# locale-gen
# echo "LANG=en_GB.UTF-8" > /etc/locale.conf
# echo "Arch" > /etc/hostname
# passwd

Seems a lot simpler and quicker to run those than to spend half an hour messing about with a GUI...

Also, an important part of maintaining Arch is knowing exactly how it all fits together and using an "installer" undermines this considerably.

EDIT: error correction  ops

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-03-24 21:23:19)


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