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#26 2020-01-07 18:08:44

cherkie
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 107

Re: Lithium test iso available

Hi, two things - when do we expect Lithium to be a stable release?
Second - if I use test now and then want to seamlessly migrate into the stable, how much of PITA will it be?

Thanks.

PS. I'm moving back to BL... Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in!

Edit. I am unable to download the iso. Getting chromium rn and I'll try on Windows as well. If all fails I'm going Helium and hey ho!

Edit2. Downloading, gonna slap it on my ThinkPad T470 in a bit and will commence thorough (just kidding, I'm a noob!) testing.

Last edited by cherkie (2020-01-07 18:22:03)


I don't have patience or skill to dig deep enough every time system breaks itself or when I break something because of lack of patience and skill.
nore, 23 Feb 2019

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#27 2020-01-07 18:34:12

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

cherkie wrote:

if I use test now and then want to seamlessly migrate into the stable, how much of PITA will it be?

The only thing you will need to do is to change repository. Eventualy investigate new usersettings for default user in /usr/share/bunsen/skel.

"PITA" what does that means?


// Regards rbh

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#28 2020-01-07 19:27:02

cherkie
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 107

Re: Lithium test iso available

Pain
In
The
Arse

Thanks for the reply though!


I don't have patience or skill to dig deep enough every time system breaks itself or when I break something because of lack of patience and skill.
nore, 23 Feb 2019

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#29 2020-01-07 19:55:59

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,124

Re: Lithium test iso available

Lithium is Debian Stable (Buster). Helium is now old-stable.

NB The default user session is now bl-session, which does not use the Openbox rc.xml and menu.xml. They are still available though,


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#30 2020-01-08 04:01:28

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

But Lithium is still Bunsenlab dev. Its not yet stable bunsen...


// Regards rbh

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#31 2020-01-08 06:50:39

cherkie
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 107

Re: Lithium test iso available

Alright, alright, let's not get bogged down with technicalities. It's installed and working, now to find my old BL configs

And that's the lspci on my thinkpad t470.

albert@albertbl:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Skylake Host Bridge/DRAM Registers (rev 08)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 520 (rev 07)
00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP USB 3.0 xHCI Controller (rev 21)
00:14.2 Signal processing controller: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP Thermal subsystem (rev 21)
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP CSME HECI #1 (rev 21)
00:16.3 Serial controller: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP Active Management Technology - SOL (rev 21)
00:17.0 SATA controller: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 21)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP PCI Express Root Port (rev f1)
00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP PCI Express Root Port #7 (rev f1)
00:1d.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP PCI Express Root Port #9 (rev f1)
00:1d.2 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 9d1a (rev f1)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP LPC Controller (rev 21)
00:1f.2 Memory controller: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP PMC (rev 21)
00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio (rev 21)
00:1f.4 SMBus: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP SMBus (rev 21)
00:1f.6 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Connection I219-LM (rev 21)
04:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 8260 (rev 3a)
3e:00.0 Non-Volatile memory controller: Toshiba America Info Systems XG4 NVMe SSD Controller (rev 01)

Last edited by cherkie (2020-01-08 06:53:21)


I don't have patience or skill to dig deep enough every time system breaks itself or when I break something because of lack of patience and skill.
nore, 23 Feb 2019

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#32 2020-01-09 01:25:40

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,237
Website

Re: Lithium test iso available

rbh wrote:

But Lithium is still Bunsenlab dev. It's not yet stable bunsen...

True. But trust me, if there isn't some weird quirk going on, lithium's stable. We haven't had any major bug reports, and its first boot after installation is way faster than the boot-glich that made helium's first boot a little weird. The login to the default bl-session is smoother, the root menu is better, the themes are better (cough, YMMV), the session options are 100% improved (1+1=2, bl-openbox or close to default Debian openbox *close not cloze, English you suck. YOU'RE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS WITH DIFFERENT PRONUNCIATIONS AND MEANINGS BUT YOU'RE BOTH SPELLED CLOSE, GAAAAA!!! USE A FLIPPING Z, I MEAN ZED! GAAAAA FREAKING aMERicaNZ and bRiTZZZ. BONNET! HOOD! LIFT! ELEVATOR! LAWYER! SOLICITOR! GAAAAAAAA!!!! sorry, moving on* = 100% improvement!), the packages are newer... That's a very incomplete list, but I'd say that this ISO is objectively better than amd64-helium.

Let's call it "The most current stable LIVE-ISO (currently only amd64) release of BL, and the first based on Debian 10."

Last edited by hhh (2020-01-09 01:36:44)

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#33 2020-01-09 05:07:53

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

hhh wrote:

lithium's stable.[...] this ISO is objectively better than amd64-helium.

Yes, Lithium dev is in practise very nice and stable. I prefer it on productive pc.


// Regards rbh

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#34 2020-02-03 08:58:50

matollik
Member
Registered: 2015-11-10
Posts: 12

Re: Lithium test iso available

The lithium iso on a flash stick, when at live login, a username and password are required. Everhow, 'user' and 'live', uggested for helium version, return error message. Any advice?

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#35 2020-02-03 12:24:41

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

matollik wrote:

The lithium iso on a flash stick, when at live login, a username and password are required. Everhow, 'user' and 'live', uggested for helium version, return error message. Any advice?

If you choose live session, you shuld be automaticley logged in. If not, something is wrong.
If you have choosed to log out and want to log in again, use:

username: user
passsword: live

Last edited by rbh (2020-02-03 12:25:47)


// Regards rbh

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#36 2020-02-04 10:17:13

matollik
Member
Registered: 2015-11-10
Posts: 12

Re: Lithium test iso available

^Thank you for advice, No success though, the same login error persists. Even after a reinstallment of the iso file, now twice.
The  usb  stick should be healthy.
Previously no problems of same kind with any of bl versions  or  other  debian distros.

Last edited by matollik (2020-02-04 12:19:38)

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#37 2020-02-04 13:55:03

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

matollik wrote:

the same login error persists. Even after a reinstallment of the iso file

You are not supposed to install the iso to the usb-key (it is possible to do), you are suposed to write the iso to the key.
You are suposed to write it with "cp" or "dd". Have done so? The exact command?

The  usb  stick should be healthy.
Previously no problems of same kind with any of bl versions  or  other  debian distros.

You can boot to the installer and abort before writing changes to your hd?
When you have booted to the live session, can you change to tty 1/2/3... and login to the CLI?
(Press Ctrl+Alt+1..)
When you try to login graphical what erorr du you get??

Have you tried to write Helium iso and boot Helium live session?
What does command

 # lsblk -f 

return for info about your key?

No one else has reported your problem. It does not seems to be an lithium bug...

Last edited by rbh (2020-02-04 14:02:47)


// Regards rbh

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#38 2020-02-10 07:55:08

matollik
Member
Registered: 2015-11-10
Posts: 12

Re: Lithium test iso available

@rbh Success, not a login problem anymore. Etcher helped to write the iso - as well as cp - on a memory stick. Dd is not familiar to me, man 'advice' not very helpful..

I now answer via Firefox and the lithium iso installed on a 32G flash stick, as the best option for me.

Many thanks, much to think about in your latest answer for a linux nonexpert. At lot to learn about cli(?)or command line practises in linux os.

Last edited by matollik (2020-02-10 09:10:53)

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#39 2020-02-10 21:00:07

kols
Member
Registered: 2017-07-16
Posts: 10

Re: Lithium test iso available

Excellent job with the development, guys!

I've tested the experimental ISO in VirtualBox, and it looks and runs great.

I have a question though: When Lithium is officially released, will we be able to simply update our sources.list/sources.list.d and do upgrade/dist-upgrade? I'm guessing that's how it works, because that's how all other Debian distros are upgraded. I just want to make sure=)

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#40 2020-02-11 00:52:26

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

Yes!


// Regards rbh

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#41 2020-02-11 05:02:20

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,146
Website

Re: Lithium test iso available

^^To expand on rbl's answer, if you install the experimental Lithium iso now, upgrading to the "official" version will be as simple as you say.

We don't, though, have an official upgrade path from BunsenLabs Helium to Lithium. It can be done, but needs careful research and preparation, mainly because of the changes between Debian Stretch and Buster. For most users it's simpler to do a fresh Lithium install in that case.


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#42 2020-02-11 20:32:39

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

But, there is less diffenrence betwen stretch - buster, than between helium - lithium...

Distupgrade from stretch to helium should go painless.
Same with BL-upgrade. But when upgrading BL, there is more userconfigs to contemplate...

The choice between upgrade or new installation, depends on personal preferenses and the actual system.

A pc that has not much more applications than the default, then you can as well do a fresh install.
The pc with many non-default applications, it could be better to upgrade.

Last edited by rbh (2020-02-11 20:33:14)


// Regards rbh

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#43 2020-02-11 20:49:37

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,124

Re: Lithium test iso available

^ With BL there have been some big changes to the $USER setup eg WM session, autostart, bl-rc.xml, jgmenu etc.

A release upgrade is therefore not so straightforward, which has been the case ever since the early Crunchbang days. The usual advice in the past was to reinstall, as the easiest option


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#44 2020-02-12 00:46:47

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,146
Website

Re: Lithium test iso available

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

But as Damo says, BL itself has changed a lot from Helium to Lithium too.

Personally, I'm wondering whether we might be able to offer some kind of automated upgrade path from Lithium to Beryllium, but that's pure imagination at this point, and will probably turn out to be very difficult...


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#45 2020-02-12 02:23:30

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,237
Website

Re: Lithium test iso available

johnraff wrote:

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

Case in point...

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … l#obsolete

But as Damo says, BL itself has changed a lot from Helium to Lithium too.

So there's that added to the mix as well. It's definitely doable, I'm running a lithium upgrade that started as hydrogen, so two dist-upgrades, but I have a lot of experience with Debian. We're geared at providing a Debian release that is relatively friendly to n00bs. At least, that's what I've always pushed for, and I think the Team agrees that this is the best way forward. There is a certain amount of elitist culture in Linux that I would like to see destroyed, as I think it directly negates the whole concept of Open Source. Case in point, I have no programming training, but I created the first BunsenLabs Live ISO builds and the first releases by grokking the live-build manual and mailing lists, and by working with the Team to get those first builds to a state that we could call it an Official Release (Hydrogen).

Personally, I'm wondering whether we might be able to offer some kind of automated upgrade path from Lithium to Beryllium, but that's pure imagination at this point, and will probably turn out to be very difficult...

Very difficult, absolutely. But Pure Imagination is inspiring, isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIYNk4ARUR8

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#46 2020-02-12 11:46:50

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

johnraff wrote:

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

That links to upgrade advices for amd64. Better reading start is https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

There is pros and cons with choosing upgrade or new installation. If you are wery new to linux and BunsenLabs, you probably don't loose so much on doing a clean install. But, I see no reason to avoid first try upgrading, if you have many non default programs installed.
Yes, the upgrade can fail. Then new installation is only choice left. The risk for failure when upgrading to Lithium/Buster is very little.


// Regards rbh

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#47 2020-02-13 08:22:29

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,146
Website

Re: Lithium test iso available

rbh wrote:
johnraff wrote:

Debian's advice on upgrading from Stretch to Buster:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … ading.html

That links to upgrade advices for amd64. Better reading start is https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

Well, that page is rather short, and it's first advice is to go back to the release notes I linked to. smile

My intention was not to help new users to upgrade, but to give them an idea of the possible complexities, and maybe deter them!

I see no reason to avoid first try upgrading

Fair enough. As long as you've got important data backed up, sure, give it a try.

...if you have many non default programs installed.

Here I have to disagree. I think the more unusual apps you have installed, the greater the chance of an upgrade failing.

Basically, if a user feels OK with dealing with problems that might come up, then go ahead and try an upgrade. For new users IMO it's safer to make a fresh install, preferably on a new partition so the old install remains.


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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#48 2020-02-14 18:36:54

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 959

Re: Lithium test iso available

Upgrading from say Helium to Lithium may have its bumps and you may also not get the latest goodies as your $HOME will have old configs.


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#49 2020-02-14 18:55:38

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 562

Re: Lithium test iso available

DeepDayze wrote:

Upgrading from say Helium to Lithium may have its bumps and you may also not get the latest goodies as your $HOME will have old configs.

With latest bl-configs, you are asked if you want to overwrite user-configs. Besides, yo can whenever you want, run "bl-user-setup --refresh" as user to copy settings from ../skel. Old usersettings is saved. Easy to run "meld confignew configold" to examine diff.

Last edited by rbh (2020-02-14 18:55:59)


// Regards rbh

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#50 2020-02-15 01:58:01

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,146
Website

Re: Lithium test iso available

What rbl rbh says about upgrading is true, and if a user has sufficient confidence they can try it by all means.

One point I forgot to mention, which needs attention:
Sometimes packages are dropped from a new version of your distribution. That means that they will no longer be maintained or get security upgrades. However, if you upgrade your system they will still remain unless you search them out and uninstall them.

Maybe over the years you've become fond of "scrobbulator", but if it's abandoned by its developer, uses an old unsafe library and gets no security upgrades from Debian then it can be a risk to your system to keep it.
By doing a fresh install from the new repositories you will discover that scrobbulator is no longer available and will be forced to find a replacement or some other way of living without it.
If you do an upgrade then scrobbulator will remain installed unless you uninstall it yourself. (Many people prefer to live dangerously.)

Last edited by johnraff (2020-02-18 00:38:18)


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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