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#751 2019-05-08 17:16:42

mrneilypops
The BL Scrot.Moe Guy
From: luxembourg
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 575
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

mrneilypops wrote:

@beaker
Sorry if I misled you.
RC1 is still being tweaked...I will release it very soon  wink

Small update for interested parties  wink

->dwmX-2019-RC1 is in 'feature freeze' (sounds grand big_smile but only upstream updates applied to what I already have in sourceforge)
->dwmX-2019-RC1 will follow release of Debian 10.0 Buster release.
->dwmX-2019-1 will follow release of Debian 10.1

->dwmX-2020-Millie will follow Debian Sid [late 2019 - working title]

Thanks all for your patience  wink

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#752 2019-05-08 19:44:20

malm
jgmenu developer
Registered: 2016-10-13
Posts: 527
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@CanadianClubXXX glad to be of help

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#753 2019-06-07 18:09:17

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 123

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I'm posting this from Siduction 18.3.0, which (as you can probably guess) is based on Debian Sid. It looks well featured and very capable but it's not a beginner's distro in my view though it's got what looks like a very good manual on the website;

https://manual.siduction.org/welcome

I'd say it's a good choice for someone who's not too concerned about rock solid stability (it doesn't promise that, though I haven't had any problems yet) and wants to use the latest cutting edge software such as Firefox 67.0.1.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2019-06-07 21:37:20)

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#754 2019-06-07 19:47:57

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 947

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

You are probably making a funny contribution here because nothing of what you write is correct.   lol   wink


- siduction 6.3.0 is unknown to me
- siduction 18.3.0 was released a year ago (here the xorg I like to use)
- is correct, it is not a beginner distribution.
- the manual is from 2016 and has not been up to date for a long time
- it is an extremely reliable rolling release (if the user consistently    adheres to certain rules)
- the user gets the latest software

I can highly recommend the siduction distribution for advanced users.

Edit:
Now it's hard to download a one year old ISO from a rolling release and do an apt update && apt dist-upgrade, which probably goes wrong.
Therefore the interested user should register in the forum and ask for his desired ISO on IRC.  He will get a current snapshot.

Last edited by unklar (2019-06-07 20:16:28)

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#755 2019-06-07 21:22:30

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 123

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

unklar wrote:

You are probably making a funny contribution here because nothing of what you write is correct.   lol   wink

Not true, by your own admission later in the post.

unklar wrote:

siduction 6.3.0 is unknown to me

It was a mistake; 18.3.0 was the correct number and I've updated my post accordingly. Thank you for the correction.

unklar wrote:

siduction 18.3.0 was released a year ago (here the xorg I like to use)
- is correct, it is not a beginner distribution.

So your comment that nothing I wrote was correct is wrong, yes?

unklar wrote:

- the manual is from 2016 and has not been up to date for a long time

When you can remember watching Aldrin and Armstrong walking on the moon, as I can, you don't think three years is a "long time".

unklar wrote:

it is an extremely reliable rolling release (if the user consistently adheres to certain rules) - the user gets the latest software

I can highly recommend the siduction distribution for advanced users.

So we agree on something else?


unklar wrote:

Edit:
Now it's hard to download a one year old ISO from a rolling release and do an apt update && apt dist-upgrade, which probably goes wrong.
Therefore the interested user should register in the forum and ask for his desired ISO on IRC.  He will get a current snapshot.

Yes, they actually told me to do that on the Siduction forum but I've not the faintest idea of how to use IRC. However, I did update the distro after installation and it went well.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2019-06-07 21:40:04)

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#756 2019-06-07 21:59:27

Sector11
The Tpyo Knig Mod
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,642

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Colonel Panic wrote:
unklar wrote:

You are probably making a funny contribution here because nothing of what you write is correct.   lol   wink

Not true, by your own admission later in the post.

unklar wrote:

siduction 6.3.0 is unknown to me

It was a mistake; 18.3.0 was the correct number and I've updated my post accordingly. Thank you for the correction.

And there is the basis of why Unklar said you were "making a funny".

Everything else Unklar, and you, said is true.

I've never tried Siduction, but I ran a "Crunchified" SID for a couple of years.  Debian SID is more stable than Debian Testing actually and a lot of people will attest to that, IF, as Unklar, stated:

the user consistently adheres to certain rules

Now everyone grab a towel and Don't Panic.

Last edited by Sector11 (2019-06-07 22:00:20)


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#757 2019-06-08 05:40:24

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 123

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I agree (and thanks for replying). I think the most important question though is whether it's worth sacrificing the guaranteed reliability and stability of Debian Stable for the more recent software of either Testing or Unstable.

I can easily live without the most recent Firefox (and do when I'm not using Siduction), but it's very nice to have LibreOffice 6.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2019-06-08 05:40:56)

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#758 2019-06-08 08:18:43

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 947

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@Colonel Panic,

it's a pity that you didn't understand the fun I made...  wink
Please excuse me!

I am glad if you use siduction and I congratulate you that you have successfully completed the update.
You can find the IRC channel on your desktop as a desktop icon or in the menu.

The stability of the rolling release is achieved by frequent dist-upgrade. Some people do this on a daily basis.  I do it weekly.

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#759 2019-06-08 08:20:00

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 947

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@Sector11

I'm glad to hear from you. Thank you very much!   wink

Last edited by unklar (2019-06-08 08:21:59)

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#760 2019-06-08 17:59:43

Sector11
The Tpyo Knig Mod
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,642

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

unklar wrote:

@Sector11

I'm glad to hear from you. Thank you very much!   wink

Hallo mein guten Freund

My "Crunchified" SID install ran for a couple of years and the ONLY reason it died was because I was lax with the things I "must do".  But it was awesome.  I was one for running one of these daily:

alias sdup2='sudo apt update && apt dist-upgrade --no-install-recommends --simulate'
alias dup2='sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade --no-install-recommends'

but it was "apt-get" back then.

@Colonel Panic - agreed, I do not "need" the latest and greatest of any program that's why I am writing this from my:

 08 Jun 19 @ 14:52:23 ~
   $ s11
System:    Host: s12 Kernel: 3.16.0-7-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.9.2) Desktop: Openbox 3.5.2
           Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8

Debian 9 is in the "tweaking" process!  Don't even need LO buy my wife has a few document files so there it sits.

Last edited by Sector11 (2019-06-08 18:00:13)


BunsenLabs Forum Rules ---== I'm a Conky 1.9'er ==---
System:    Host: d67 Kernel: 4.9.0-9-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 6.3.0)
Desktop: Openbox 3.6.1 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)

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#761 2019-06-10 17:54:01

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 228

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I ran Siduction for a few years, quite some time back. I agree that it is an excellent distro. I can't recall why I abandoned it, but I remember it fondly.

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#762 2019-06-10 20:34:23

beaker
Member
Registered: 2016-03-06
Posts: 127

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^likewise. Would have no reservations using it as my daily.

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#763 2019-06-11 01:41:49

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 759

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I have a siduction 18.3 install on another disk and it's just the basic Xorg install which has just Fluxbox as the WM. That was an adventure to set up at first but once I got rolling it rocked. Debian Sid is not for everyone and I am writing this from a BL Helium install that now tracks Sid and so far haven't had major breakages. For those who are adventurous to want to run Debian Sid be warned there WILL be breakages so watch what apt tells you as it may tell you some packages may be removed. The siduction forum has a great section about any Sid breakages and workarounds.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2019-06-11 01:42:26)


Real Men Use Linux

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#764 2019-06-11 01:44:38

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 759

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I have this burning desire to jump back into Arch Linux so might go get the ArchLabs ISO soon smile


Real Men Use Linux

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#765 2019-06-11 02:30:31

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,649
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Colonel Panic wrote:

I'm posting this from Siduction 18.3.0, which (as you can probably guess) is based on Debian Sid. It looks well featured and very capable but it's not a beginner's distro in my view though it's got what looks like a very good manual on the website;

https://manual.siduction.org/welcome

I'd say it's a good choice for someone who's not too concerned about rock solid stability (it doesn't promise that, though I haven't had any problems yet) and wants to use the latest cutting edge software such as Firefox 67.0.1.

I ran it for about a year, until I realized that I'm less of a fanatic and need to run stable. You really need to upgrade every day or two and follow the siduction forum for breakages, or your system will eventually break.

Definitely follow their Manual procedures for upgrades...

https://manual.siduction.org/sys-admin-apt

^ BTW, that Manual is relevant to anyone running Debian, IMO, though I'd also include apt as a proper upgrade path...

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xen … apt.8.html

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#766 2019-06-11 03:22:04

Sector11
The Tpyo Knig Mod
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,642

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

We are Debian!
Resistance is futile!

We don't need Ubuntu, we have johnraff!

HUH!

#!/bin/bash
# oneliner from commandlinefu.com
# man -t $1 | ps2pdf - - | epdfview -
# bash script from johnraff
# pman filename
# convert man page to pdf & show in epdfview/evince/mupdf

file=$(mktemp)
man -t $1 | ps2pdf - $file

atril $file
#evince $file
#epdfview $file
#mupdf $file

rm $file
exit
pman apt

BINGO!


BunsenLabs Forum Rules ---== I'm a Conky 1.9'er ==---
System:    Host: d67 Kernel: 4.9.0-9-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 6.3.0)
Desktop: Openbox 3.6.1 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)

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#767 2019-06-11 08:25:18

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 947

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

S11, I love your humor.  lol lol

@All
I thank you for all the good words to siduction.

At home I have 4 installations (xorg; 2x lxde; plasma5) and,
apt is very wise(!), you just have to read exactly what HE says!   wink

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#768 2019-06-16 19:23:23

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 123

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Thanks again to everyone who's replied. If it's easy to break Debian Sid when you try to upgrade it I think I'll stay with Stable; I don't need the newer applications (such as LibreOffice 6) that much.

I've had bad experiences of things breaking when I've tried to update other distros I've used and it's my view that the inconvenience of a breakage (especially a major one, such as XOrg) far outweighs the extra features / more colourful interface etc. of the latest software release. Of course it's great to have both the latest software and stability, but if it's one or the other I think stability is more important.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2019-06-16 19:33:27)

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#769 2019-06-16 19:25:45

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 123

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

unklar wrote:

@Colonel Panic,

it's a pity that you didn't understand the fun I made...  wink
Please excuse me!

Not a problem.

unklar wrote:

I am glad if you use siduction and I congratulate you that you have successfully completed the update.
You can find the IRC channel on your desktop as a desktop icon or in the menu.

The stability of the rolling release is achieved by frequent dist-upgrade. Some people do this on a daily basis.  I do it weekly.

Thanks, I'll look into it. For the moment though I feel that Debian Stable (and Slackware, which I use sometimes, and some of its derivatives such as Salix and Vector) is just less trouble.

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#770 2019-06-17 08:37:17

earlybird
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-12-16
Posts: 727
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Since 2.5 weeks, I'm back on macOS on my work computer. Last time I had that setup was in 2016.

Several remarks:

The worst and most obvious initial difference is the macOS keyboard layout. What a pile of nonstandard $$$$. Switched to the Windows keyboard immediately. What's nice is that macOS has obvious settings for changing the function of the Ctrl, Option, CapsLock keys etc in a simple way.

Window management is still garbage. It could be *so* simple. Here, Windows-style and common Linux-style window management is vastly superior to whatever macOS does.

Font rendering is blurry. Seriously, standard Linux distros and Windows nowadays both show fonts in a much, much better way than macOS. Apple fell behind by miles here.

Homebrew is completely broken with the latest version of macOS. macports seems to clearly be the better ports system nowadays.

As long as you live in the terminal, all you have to do is install Bash 5, a decent terminal emulator application, GNU coreutils, binutils & findutils and things will be barely different when compared to your Linux box. Nice.

Current Apple laptops are ABSOLUTE CRAP. The 'touchbar' is the most useless thing ever, and you wouldn't think that somebody with a working brain could have tested the chicklet keyboard on these things and recommend it for the GA release. The built-in keyboard is so bad, even the cheapest Lenovo offering has a better one! And no ports. I have a Thunderbolt-to-USB-and-DP hub here on my desk because of Apple's glorious Dongle Strategy. If your company pays for it who cares, but this 2018 MacBook """Pro""" with an i7 processor and dedicated graphics card and 16G RAM is such a bad piece of hardware, I would pay at most $500 for it. The retail price around here for the configuration is $3550 (converted from €). Holy moly.

VMWare Fusion is absolutely essential on this type of PC to deliver a good virtualized Linux experience. Virtualbox doesn't work well on this thing. Just as many crashes as in 2016.

What's still a killer feature of macOS is the very good builtin PDF capabilities. Working with PDFs has gotten nicer on Linux, esp. if you add paid softwares, but e.g. Okular vs Preview is still not very much of a fight. Of course, none of this is due to modern Apple ideas but due to the NeXTSTEP's Display-PostScript.

Never thought I'd say that but PulseAudio handles multiple audio sources and sinks better than macOS. Smart muting and audio routing work on Linux. First thing that happened after I plugged in my headset on macOS was that the call got routed to the laptop speakers, and after the fact a popup opened asking me if I'd like to rather have the audio come out of the headset (while the laptop lid was closed!!!). Great UX, just great. Think different.

--------

In essence: macOS is largely an OKish experience. In a way, still a UNIX distro. Hardware got quite bad. What I like is that macOS gets out of your way, most of of the time.

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#771 2019-06-17 12:48:04

clusterF
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 254

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ wow you could buy two high performance desktops for that amount of money. Apple has become and probably always was like a gucci brand, you are paying for the name and the heritage. The only apple product i have owned was an ipod 3 touch second gen i think, even that was like $250 at the time, i think back in 2007 or 2008? I dont like this lack of I/0, sealing the units and no audio jacks coming in on new laptops and phones. You should be able to replace a battery and plug in your headphones etc..

Last edited by clusterF (2019-06-17 12:50:36)

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#772 2019-06-18 01:12:23

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 759

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

clusterF wrote:

^ wow you could buy two high performance desktops for that amount of money. Apple has become and probably always was like a gucci brand, you are paying for the name and the heritage. The only apple product i have owned was an ipod 3 touch second gen i think, even that was like $250 at the time, i think back in 2007 or 2008? I dont like this lack of I/0, sealing the units and no audio jacks coming in on new laptops and phones. You should be able to replace a battery and plug in your headphones etc..

Samsung is going the same route as the new models you can't insert a memory card nor is there a headphone jack. Swap a battery? Forget it...


Real Men Use Linux

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#773 2019-07-24 19:53:52

glittersloth
...always giving it to you straight
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 885

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Say what you want (mostly valid) about Apple, but the current iPad Pro (running new iPad OS beta) is the dog's bollocks for a portable setup, imho. If only there was an Ansible app for it, I'd get one for myself in a heartbeat. Also, fun fact/anecdote; that overpriced spongy folio keyboard thing for the iPad, as mediocre as the key feel is, is still an order of magnitude better than the butterfly chiclet keyboards on current MacBooks. Yeah, that's how low the Mac has fallen. It's all Dr Dre's fault. His shit headphones melted the brains of the entire Mac engineering department.

Anyhooz, I'm getting back into distro-swinging after a long hiatus. Tried Fedobear 30 last week. A lot has changed. There's this new dnf package management replacing yum. Does the job, though the motorsport fan in me shudders a bit every time (in our lingo, dnf means "did not finish", usually due to a crash or breakdown) I run it. Their Gnome Shell integration is said to be the best around. I can't say if that's really the case since I haven't used Gnome 3 on any other distro recently to compare it with, but in terms of performance it's been pretty smooth. Their (Fedora, not Gnome) ootb font rendering still sucks though. I thought that TrueType patent had expired already, so what's stopping them? Copr repo, while not quite the Fedo equivalent of AUR, is a good step in many regards. Gnome is still beyond me, and SELinux is still a pain. I'm sure it's competent enough, but nearly all the recently published Fedora tweak guides I find starts with "first, we must disable SELinux", just like they did seven or eight years ago. Also, what's up with this Silverblue thing? The documentation reads like it was written by a subcontracted marketing firm. I've read everything and understand nothing! Flatpaks alone are complicated enough for me, so don't go sending me to a sanitarium with this OSTree abstraction.

I need something simple now. Maybe I'll revisit Arch and get it hijacked by Void via Bedrock, just to see the VM window go up in flames. Or maybe I'll try Solus. No experience with it but always read good things.

Last edited by glittersloth (2019-07-24 19:56:44)

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#774 2019-07-25 02:18:53

MALsPa
Member
From: albuquerque
Registered: 2016-06-20
Posts: 156

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

glittersloth wrote:

It's all Dr Dre's fault. His shit headphones melted the brains of the entire Mac engineering department.

Ha-ha!!!

glittersloth wrote:

Or maybe I'll try Solus. No experience with it but always read good things.

I've read some things about Solus; seems interesting, and I'm tempted to try it out.

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#775 2019-07-25 02:48:01

cog
brushpopper
From: New Mexico, USA
Registered: 2015-10-27
Posts: 275
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Please see my next post.  Somehow my stupid iPhone double posted.

(It’s probably not Tim Cook’s fault but just good old PEBTAB, problem exist between touchscreen and beer)

Last edited by cog (2019-07-25 03:08:44)


It is another beautiful day at the Red Pony Saloon and continual soiree.  - Henry Standing Bear

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