You are not logged in.

#1 2019-03-04 04:00:43

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

The bi-annual CD image debate.

Is Lithium the release to drop the CD size image?  How relevant does it remain?
(And yes I have a machine with only a CD drive, but it's so old it struggles even with Bunsen Helium).

Provide both kernels in the DVD & let the installer pick as Debian do instead?  Assuming that's possible.

Thoughts?


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

Offline

#2 2019-03-04 04:14:46

hhh
That's it!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,991
Website

Re: The bi-annual CD image debate.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about dropping the non-PAE image, but maybe it's OK to do so at this point. @johnraff, this is your call.

Online

#3 2019-03-04 04:41:11

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

Re: The bi-annual CD image debate.

I'll add, you could consider making the 32 bit image non-pae by default, bl-welcome checks & upgrades to pae as part of the 32 bit routine, the more generic live session means only having to have the one.

The CD live session is becoming more limited, each iteration squeezes more things out to make it fit, as it is, there's already arguably too many things missing.

I'm just flying a kite here, seeing what people think.

Last edited by Bearded_Blunder (2019-03-04 04:42:34)


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

Offline

#4 2019-03-04 05:45:13

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,087
Website

Re: The bi-annual CD image debate.

Of course CD-size (under 700) and (non)-pae are two different issues, though we assumed that the likelihood of a machine that didn't support pae being able to boot off a usb stick was small, so collapsed the two use cases into one iso.

I'd say - first let's see if the current CD image appslist still fits on a CD when built on Buster. The trend is always bigger. If it's way over, then yes it might be time to give up. More and more distros are dropping 32bit support too, but I'd like to keep that, please, as I don't want to throw away my two laptops yet.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

Offline

#5 2019-03-05 01:34:54

hhh
That's it!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,991
Website

Re: The bi-annual CD image debate.

@B_B, our current CD-ISO image is non-PAE by default, and bl-welcome detects if your box supports PPA and offers to install it, IIRC. If we keep offering a CD, we'll keep this setup.

https://www.bunsenlabs.org/installation.html#downloads

-edit- re-read your post, I missed that you meant to make the 32 bit full-ISO No PPA. I think we can still offer the CD ISO, but like @johnraff posted, we'll have to wait a little while til things settle enough that we can build test images.

Online

#6 2019-03-05 07:35:08

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

Re: The bi-annual CD image debate.

Yes, it is confusing with pae & CD being 2 different issues.
The Helium "CD" iso didn't fit on the first CDR I grabbed, some of us still have spindles of 650s we haven't finished using tongue I had to hunt up a 700

we assumed that the likelihood of a machine that didn't support pae being able to boot off a usb stick was small

You're handling 3 different cases here too:
1) Processor that doesn't have PAE at all (early i686 pre pentium 2 pro)
You're quite correct, such a machine is unlikely to support usb boot my pentium 2 mmx machine doesn't, it also doesn't run Jessie worth a damn, never mind Buster/Lithium, prolly OK for command-line use only.

2) Processor that has PAE but doesn't report it in the cpu flags (Some Pentium M class processors)
I have such a machine, an old thinkpad, it'll boot from USB, it'll also run using the "forcepae" kernel parameter, it runs better with the non-pae kernel due to the overhead for pae

3) Virtualbox installs & the host doesn't support VT-x/AMD-equivalent so guests don't support PAE
I have many such installs, they won't boot from usb, but will from .iso files, CD or DVD

I'd say - first let's see if the current CD image appslist still fits on a CD when built on Buster.

OK that'll work, I can certainly cover all my use cases with the current image set smile If, however, the The apps list won't go in a 700MB image then please consider shipping the 32 bit DVD with the non-pae kernel. Use case 3 requires a post install visit with the installer rescue system & downgrading the kernel otherwise to boot at all. Whereas just saying yes upgrade me to pae as the current CD install does is trivial for anyone who's processor does support it, even if mostly the benefit is debatable. e.g. my netbook also runs slower with a pae kernel, even though it *is* supported.   You still pretty much cover everyone if the DVD does non-pae.

I'm absolutely with @johnraff regards wanting to keep 32 bit support around, I too have 32 bit hardware ( a netbook ) and I'm not really wanting to upgrade my main machine's processor for one with VT-x just to be able to run bunsen in virtual machines.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

Offline

#7 2019-03-05 10:35:29

vic
New Member
Registered: 2018-06-16
Posts: 3

Re: The bi-annual CD image debate.

Personally I think that 32 bit support is very relevant for a distro like BunsenLabs. There is still a lot of old hardware out there, and it is good to have such an excellent choice as BL is for that purpose.

For my own situation I am quite certain that the Buster release cycle will be my last with 32 bit. Will use, I hope Lithium, on a ten year old eeepc, a one task at a time machine. big_smile Mostly just for streaming some music whilst doing other stuff.

Might add that the cd-image limit is of no interest for me since I use usb. But it is certainly a wanted option for some users, if not many.


"Yes, I should have done better."
                                             -vic

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB