[DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

johnraff · 2017-10-17 06:46:11

^I think the daemon is an essential part of Dropbox. And I agree having files automatically synchronized in real time is the appeal. If you did it manually, then you might as well use some other simpler system.

brontosaurusrex · 2017-10-17 07:50:24

johnraff wrote:

I don't think it would be easy not to have the system tray icon appearing. Is it a major problem?.

Not a problem imho, my memory might not serve me well and there was a systray icon even with that python script.

martix · 2017-10-17 15:10:19

johnraff wrote:

Firefox "Scrapbook" extension + DB is a nice combination.

That Scrapbook extension is really useful. Just for my understanding: Is it about saving the websites through Scrapbook in the DB (cloud-)folder, so those files can be accessed from any device with a DB-client and that folder will be synchronized between devices? I tried to do the same setup without dropbox.

1. I decided to try Owncloud (Nextcloud would be basically the same here). Opened the site with all the providers here. Went for owndrive, because it was the first one on the free plans list (read positive reviews about hostiso).

2. On owndrive.com I created a free account - no need for banking data, basically email and some personal details. 1 GB storage at no cost.

3. Installed owncloud-client from here:

https://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=isv:ownCloud:desktop&package=owncloud-client

4. Started ownCloud desktop sync client and used my.owndrive.com with the login details from the registration. It creates an ~/ownCloud folder, which will be synchronized with the cloud storage. It has a systray icon too with a detailed menu there.

5. Under Scrapbook/Preferences I configured the ownCloud folder under "save to".

Btw that online storage place can be accessed via browser too (https://my.owndrive.com/index.php/login).

Edit: Forgot to add that it's very easy to share files with anyone as it creates a link via "click on file", "Sharing", check "Share Link", e.g.

https://my.owndrive.com/index.php/s/ucDCfau4Daiy6HS

It turns out that there are also official debian packages.

Last edited by martix (2017-10-17 23:33:59)

johnraff · 2017-10-18 03:32:46

^So owncloud allows you to use FOSS software on your machine, but the web service is still proprietary, of course. How reliable is it turning out to be for you? Does it support symlinks in the synchronized folder? (That's how I use my Dropox folder - symlinks to the directories that I want to sync, so the local system doesn't have to be changed at all.)

martix · 2017-10-18 12:32:28

Well, ideally with Nextcloud or Owncloud there would be no hosting company, but the user's own server. As it says on the wiki: "ownCloud is functionally very similar to the widely used Dropbox, with the primary functional difference being that the Server Edition of ownCloud is free and open-source, and thereby allowing anyone to install and operate it." If the owndrive service is based on it, then the web service might be also open source. So far I tested it's doing what it should do, synchronizing works fine (also menu entry in a dynamic menu, systray icon, tint2 icon, launch on system start, etc.).

There are lot of posts about storage services and symlinks, even dropbox seems to discourage using that method. I tried it with owncloud and it shows a message under the "not synced" tab. Reading about it reveals that symlinks for cloud storage are often insecure and unreliable (on owncloud something to do with the webdav protocol, loops, etc.). It says in an owncloud post: "it's possible to define multiple syncs, one per (server) subfolder, which can be associated with subdirectories on the server. This works well without symlinks and is the recommended way."

Setting up and using owncloud was so far easier than I expected, although I don't like (need) this kind of services. Some users even integrate it in the file system. Nextcloud, Seafile or Syncthing might be worth a try too (although Syncthing is only about synchronizing, not about file hosting).

Last edited by martix (2017-10-18 12:49:36)

johnraff · 2017-10-19 02:42:57

^Symlinks are discouraged: DB is a fair load on my system, and selective sync can sometimes be tricky to get right, but they are essential for the way I use it.
My "Dropbox" directory contains a few real sub-directories, but mostly symlinks to directories elesewhere on the system that I want to synchronize with other machines: Documents, scripts, projects...
You have to be careful to avoid the symlinked directories being too deep, and especially link loops will of course hang the whole thing, but it means everything can stay where it is on my system, and would go on working as before if DB were removed.

I especially enjoy being able to boot up my laptop, let it sync, then take it away where there's no internet, continue working on various projects, come back and resync again - everything's on my desktop in its new state.

But reading your linked post, if OwnCloud can do multiple syncs of different directories, then that would indeed be a cleaner way of doing it. (But, does owncloud even ignore symlinks inside the sychronized directory? That sounds like a problem.) Anyway, I'll have to give it a try, and consider shifting (although I can't say I'm having any problems with DB at the moment).

I don't think it's reasonable to expect new users to set up their own servers though, so they'll still be at the mercy of some company, whatever framework they use. Unless you have your own mainframe attached to the internet, even your "own server" is rented from some provider, for that matter.

martix · 2017-10-21 16:46:43

Meanwhile I also tested Nextcloud. The client is not in the debian repos, but it's basically the same as the Owncloud client. Some of the providers listed as free plans here actually do not offer free hosting, like hostiso, openitstore or webo (qloc only for 30 days). I had bad experiences with ocloud and xt3 (wrong certificate) and pixelx (something about phone verification? I don't know, didn't work). Opted for Zaclys in the end (the provider Unixcorn looked ok too - meanwhile tried it, do not recommend it), which is some kind of a french community. After signing up and email verification Nextcloud hosting can be activated in the profile. So far the service has been working fine, the software is ok too, as mentioned, basically the same like Owncloud.

Seafile has a different client and I found it in the debian repos, it's called seafile-gui. There is seafile.net, which is offering free plans via email verification. The configuration is easy, I mean "apt install seafile-gui" and using "https://seafile.net" with the registered email and password there, however I had the feeling that someone has to get used to the client first.

On the alternativeto site I read some reviews about cloud services. Some messages mentioned cryptomator for secure cloud hosting (encrypting data). I gave it a try and it's really easy to use: A vault inside the synced folder (it can be also used e.g. with an USB stick) can be created which will be encrypted. After opening it with a password it mounts a virtual drive with the user's data. Interesting thing is that mirage did not show .gif files from within this folder (e.g. Nomacs did).

Anyone with good/bad experiences regarding nextcloud, owncloud or seafile hosting?

Last edited by martix (2018-06-12 12:09:28)

randomeur · 2017-10-21 23:46:08

I still use it, mainly for work (academic research) collaborations of sharing data between different groups.
I'm for keeping it in the menu, for the sake of ease of use, as it's one of the first things I end up installing on a fresh system. But if the decision tends to be to remove it, why not add it to the welcome script instead?

johnraff · 2017-10-22 06:40:27

randomeur wrote:

But if the decision tends to be to remove it, why not add it to the welcome script instead?

This is what we might do, at least until a convincingly better alternative becomes obvious.

brontosaurusrex · 2017-10-22 07:41:59

@johnraff, just wondering, wouldn't git cover all your needs? One machine running git --bare, acting as server. If server drops, there are still ways to sync machines.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/486 … positories

Simpler version would be using 3rd party gitlab private option instead of 'git bare' (or both).

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2017-10-22 08:00:50)

johnraff · 2017-10-22 07:57:35

^git is clearly not a drop-in substitute, especially if you had to set up the server yourself.
It's great for code, but would be a royal PITA for everything else.

Anyway, it's clear that there is a substantial user population for DB.

Last edited by johnraff (2017-10-22 07:58:49)

qcgxr · 2017-10-25 23:59:18

johnraff wrote:

^git is clearly not a drop-in substitute, especially if you had to set up the server yourself.
It's great for code, but would be a royal PITA for everything else.

As an aside, git-annex is pretty cool for everything else. You can create all sorts of sync patterns and it handles media files unlike ordinary git. There is even a web UI called git annex assistant that automates some of the checkin/-out type things. The only thing is I can't really abide trusting my 'serious' data to a git file scheme, else I'd use it pretty heavily. As is, I use it to pass media files between several computers. Fyi.

ohnonot · 2017-10-26 05:41:40

qcgxr wrote:

git-annex is pretty cool

very, very interesting!!!
https://downloads.kitenet.net/videos/gi … x-lan.webm
http://git-annex.branchable.com/walkthrough/

tknomanzr · 2017-10-26 14:32:49

^ I have been using git to store all of my schoolwork on my file server. This includes pdf's, images, and whatever else I accrue throughout the process.

It is fairly easy to setup a local git server once you have ssh setup. I setup dynamic dns service, then mapped a tunnel from a higher port through to the file server (which has to stay at port 22.) I then specified configurations in ~/.ssh/config for both the internal network and the external one. This allows me to push to my local git repository from wherever I am.

To set git up on a machine, first ssh into it, create a directory such as git, cd into it and git init just like you would for anything else. Exit the secure shell (CTRL-D or exit), then on your machine make a directory, git, then cd into it, and git clone the bare repository you just created. Instructions are below to access your newly created git repository.

Because there is a gag order in place from my school in regards to their coursework, I am unable to push all of that onto a public git server. This solves that problem, plus gives me a place to store stuff I write that I am not ready for the public to view yet. My commit history on github may end up slowing down but at least what I push there is relatively stable now.

Below is an example of what that might look like.

git clone ssh://user@host:port/path/to/git/ master

However, to simplify, lets add that to our git remotes

git remote add nas ssh://user@host:port/path/to/git

I chose nas because it is likely that origin is already mapped to github for a lot of this crowd.
a git push would then look like:

git push nas master

where nas is the remote we specified and master is the branch to push too.
We can review all of our configred remotes via:

git remote -vv

Note: I don't use git to store multimedia on that file server. I prefer sshfs and pcmanfm to do such copy operations, even though the copies are much slower via a gui. However, even for sshfs the same principles apply, meaning it is necessary to setup ssh.

Last edited by tknomanzr (2017-10-26 14:39:55)

qcgxr · 2017-10-29 15:21:54

ohnonot wrote:

qcgxr wrote:
git-annex is pretty cool
very, very interesting!!!
https://downloads.kitenet.net/videos/gi … x-lan.webm
http://git-annex.branchable.com/walkthrough/

Yes. There are many goodies, e.g.,

https://git-annex.branchable.com/location_tracking/
https://git-annex.branchable.com/copies/

DeepDayze · 2017-10-29 17:08:21

I would go for offering to install Dropbox in the bl-welcome script and using the installer script to install Dropbox without the extras of adding a repo and nautilus bloat, rather than having it in a pipemenu.

ohnonot · 2017-10-30 06:16:17

I have been following this thread for a long time now, and don't really feel like bikeshedding around the topic anymore, but...

if dropbox is still offered(*), at least one alternative should also be offered.

(*)because that seems to be the consensus right now - personally i would prefer to remove it (and a few other items) completely from the menu.

johnraff · 2017-10-30 08:51:32

ohnonot wrote:

don't really feel like bikeshedding around the topic anymore...

Same here. Starting to regret I even brought it up. But anyway, since it's clear a significant number of people would like an automated DB installer, this is what I'm proposing to do:

Remove the DropBox pipemenu and rewrite the installer to occupy a page in the bl-welcome script.

Helium is getting later and later and there are more important/interesting things to work on before it leaves the lab door, so this:

if dropbox is still offered, at least one alternative should also be offered.

will have to wait until someone, or several people, can:

test out each of the possible alternatives on a variety of hardware for: noobablilty, reliability and ability to do most of what DB does
write an installer (or at least the basis of an installer) for said service that can be incorporated in bl-welcome

At that point I'll be happy to do the necessary packaging, or even remove DB too if the replacement is just as good.
Since we're still offering the proprietary Flash in bl-welcome (and I know some people would be delighted to see the back of that too) and no-one ever said BunsenLabs was a Pure FOSS setup, can we somehow get along on that basis?

dolly · 2017-10-30 15:29:53

^Yes we can!

martix · 2017-10-30 23:40:02

johnraff wrote:

Starting to regret I even brought it up.

Regret? Look at all the useful info already in the thread, that should feel more like a good idea. And it's good to understand how dropbox became a part of the menu. Since that time the landscape has really changed regarding cloud services.
Edit: Browsing through some older #! posts is really interesting. A thread from 2011 asking for dropbox alternatives has only one single post naming sshfs (which is not really an alternative). Dropbox was already available in 2008, as Corenominal posted a dropbox howto and wrote a script. There used to be even a debian package, but it was dropped.

johnraff wrote:

[*]test out each of the possible alternatives on a variety of hardware for: noobablilty, reliability and ability to do most of what DB does[/*]
[*]write an installer (or at least the basis of an installer) for said service that can be incorporated in bl-welcome[/*]

Writing an installer? I mean e.g. using an Owncloud hosting service requires "apt install owncloud-client" and one for Seafile "apt install seafile-gui" (from the backports). It seems that a debian package for Nextcloud is on the way too (actually Nextcloud was started after the core developer team of Owncloud left. There seems to be lot of buzz around Nextcloud right now).

So far I tested Owncloud, Nextcloud, Seafile and Dropbox. For the client Dropbox downloads over 50 MB, while the debian package for the Owncloud client is somewhere around 7 MB and for the seafile-gui around 1.5 MB. The dropbox-client works fine with the static menu but won't integrate in a dynamic menu like jgmenu (needs tweaking) and "Quit" did not work for me (and am not sure how to remove dropbox). Btw dropbox collects all kinds of user data, not only IP and location, but also browser type and the website the user came from.

Syncing did work fine so far with every hosting offer I tried. Seafile also supports symlinks, however there are not as many free hosting offers (e.g. seafile.net [needs older client version], seafile.biz [ocloud] or syncwerk.com) as for Owncloud or Nextcloud. Personally I would not touch dropbox again and tend to agree with HoaS or ohnonot (leave it), but it surely won't bother me in the welcome script to get along.

Last edited by martix (2017-10-31 13:24:28)

#21 2017-10-17 06:46:11

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#22 2017-10-17 07:50:24

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#23 2017-10-17 15:10:19

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#24 2017-10-18 03:32:46

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#25 2017-10-18 12:32:28

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#26 2017-10-19 02:42:57

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#27 2017-10-21 16:46:43

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#28 2017-10-21 23:46:08

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#29 2017-10-22 06:40:27

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#30 2017-10-22 07:41:59

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#31 2017-10-22 07:57:35

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#32 2017-10-25 23:59:18

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#33 2017-10-26 05:41:40

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#34 2017-10-26 14:32:49

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#35 2017-10-29 15:21:54

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#36 2017-10-29 17:08:21

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#37 2017-10-30 06:16:17

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#38 2017-10-30 08:51:32

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#39 2017-10-30 15:29:53

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

#40 2017-10-30 23:40:02

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

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