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#1 2017-10-14 01:09:50

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
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[DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

@martix raised this issue today: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 186#p62186

When Corenominal originally added Dropbox to the CrunchBang menu it was new and somewhat unique, at least in how easy it was to use. He probably used it himself and wanted to share the news. I personally find it very useful - but these days there are open source alternatives, though I haven't tried any and can't compare their reliability etc.

The pipemenu simplifies the installation, and avoids the needs for Nautilus hacks (are they still needed?), but could be replaced by a how-to, or the install script (work by yrs trly) could be made available in some other way. The other pipemenu functions don't do much that isn't provided by the Dropbox system tray icon, once it's installed.

Drop the pipemenu? Replace it with something else? Leave it as it is?
Or add it as an option to the welcome script (by analogy with Flash)?

Last edited by johnraff (2018-05-17 02:30:43)


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#2 2017-10-14 01:28:43

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
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Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Sector11 wrote:

...they close the public access to files if the person had the link I gave them.

I think that still works.
Can you download this?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqgqxmtp2jrps … -DONE?dl=1
Change the ?dl=0 at the end of the url that 'dropbox.py sharelink' gives you to ?dl=1 and Firefox will download directly, with no request to sign up. Wget just works with ?dl=0 or ?dl=1 or no ending at all.


John
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#3 2017-10-14 08:41:39

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Meanwhile there are Nextcloud, Syncthing, git-annex, etc. - as mentioned, pretty good FOSS alternatives (SpiderOak is not entirely open source). So why promote this proprietary service out-of-the-box? Probably this thread will deliver some hints how many users still stick to dropbox (@johnraff btw that link works here indeed on firefox downloading bunsen-todo-done).

Last edited by martix (2017-10-14 08:52:24)

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#4 2017-10-14 09:23:49

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,663
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Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

^ i say, self-host everything.
once you have your homeserver up, and once you realise it can also serve to the internet, there's plenty of options. how about NFS? or sshfs? or plain scp?

on topic, i'd agree that the landscape has changed a lot since corenominal added this to crunchbang and there's no reason to cling to it.

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#5 2017-10-14 13:11:33

dolly
Miss Mixunderstand
From: /lab1
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 365

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Yes, it is time to remove it, even if it is very practical for us dropbox users. smile


Keep BunsenLabs #!yish please.

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#6 2017-10-14 14:56:24

qcgxr
Member
Registered: 2016-08-31
Posts: 23

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

johnraff wrote:

@martix raised this issue today: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 186#p62186

Drop the pipemenu? Replace it with something else? Leave it as it is?
Or add it as an option to the welcome script (by analogy with Flash)?

I'll echo the votes for a FOSS alternative if we're going to have something. That said, I've always found this use of the pipemenu one of the oddities of CrunchBang. I'm of the mind that installers shouldn't clutter the UI. The welcome script would be preferable (perhaps better would be a folder of 'customizing scripts' in the home directory rather than extending the welcome script).

While were at it: what about the Google Docs link? Seems also not so FOSS.

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#7 2017-10-14 15:18:20

nore
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From: squirrels' nest
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 440

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

martix wrote:

pretty good FOSS alternatives

Which ones are not selfhosted?

I won't miss Dropbox pipemenu if it gets removed, it's not hard even for a newb to install it by following instructions on their site.

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#8 2017-10-14 21:31:15

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

qcgxr wrote:

While were at it: what about the Google Docs link? Seems also not so FOSS.

Oh yes, wanted to mention it but forgot about it. There are FOSS services like Cryptpad, dudle, Etherpad, Nextcloud, Up1, DAVdroid, EtherCalc, etc. It might be only me, but having a link as a menu entry instead of a bookmark in the browser always seemed to be a bit strange to me. There is a distro (which is actually pretty good) I used to try and over sixty percent of a huge menu were links to websites. Anyway, a good point to think about. And I noticed in the gmrun config file this line "URL_g = x-www-browser 'http://www.google.com/search?q=%s'" - pls. consider changing it to something like startpage, unbubble or duckduckgo.

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#9 2017-10-15 06:33:35

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
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Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

nore wrote:
martix wrote:

pretty good FOSS alternatives

Which ones are not selfhosted?

Yes please. Nextcloud, Syncthing, git-annex all seem to be frameworks, not services, some of them "under development".

...it's not hard even for a newb to install it (Dropbox) by following instructions on their site.

Where? https://www.dropbox.com/install offers an Ubuntu .deb which adds an unnecessary apt repository and Nautilus extensions, or some cli instructions for putting DB on a server. Our installer uses dropbox.py, which not only has an install function but also offers useful cli control afterwards.

If we take our installer out of the menu, maybe it would make sense to just offer it as an optional install script somewhere - a forum HOW-TO, or even part of a debian package containing a collection of optional scripts? (Our site has no "downloads" section for things other than the BL installer and packages.)

And if users of other alternatives to DropBox could post their experiences and advice here, we might be able to offer alternative install scripts for them. Are there any FOSS alternatives which already offer a free web-based service?

Setting up ones own web server is of course a better option, but it requires a certain skill level, and isn't free.

---
About FOSS:
I don't think corenominal - who went on to using Windows for some time after leaving CrunchBang - was very evangelical about Open Source, and used what worked for him. While I, along with most forum members, I think, fully appreciate the importance of freedom in software (and other things), BunsenLabs itself has never made an explicit change from the more pragmatic "whatever works" philosophy of CrunchBang. It's not out of the question that we might declare some such FOSS-only policy in the future, but that would have repercussions on things like hardware support of course. Meanwhile, "it's not FOSS" is not an absolute determiner, just something to be taken into consideration IMO.


John
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( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
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#10 2017-10-15 06:56:06

nore
>2⁹
From: squirrels' nest
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 440

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

johnraff wrote:

Where? https://www.dropbox.com/install offers an Ubuntu .deb which adds an unnecessary apt repository and Nautilus extensions, or some cli instructions for putting DB on a server.

CLI instructions are also for workstations. (Common misgeneralization: if you ever use command line, you must be a server administrator wizard.)
First download and untar

cd ~ && wget -O - "https://www.dropbox.com/download?plat=lnx.x86_64" | tar xzf -

or for 32 bit alternative

cd ~ && wget -O - "https://www.dropbox.com/download?plat=lnx.x86" | tar xzf -

Then run

~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd

once for signing in your Dropbox account.
Lastly add

~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd

to your autostart file. Of course, if this is done by a script, it may make softer landing on BL for some.

Last edited by nore (2017-10-15 07:07:28)

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#11 2017-10-15 08:24:48

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
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Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

nore wrote:

CLI instructions are also for workstations... Of course, if this is done by a script, it may make softer landing on BL for some.

That was the idea of the pipemenu of course. But it needn't be a menu - the script could be easily taken out and used as a once-off installer.


John
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#12 2017-10-15 09:16:07

Steve
Member
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 642

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

I think leaving it as an option as a once off installer is fair enough. I dont use it myself, used to many moons ago but i had a hiccup with the local file and poooff all my photos gone locally and in the cloud.

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#13 2017-10-15 18:46:33

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Posts: 8,759
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Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Kill it with fire.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

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#14 2017-10-16 14:39:43

thoro
Member
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 37

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Oh no, don't kill the Dropbox pipemnu. I use it every day and would hate to give it up.


"It's just your opinion, man!"

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#15 2017-10-16 23:25:00

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

@thoro Ah, there is finally someone actually using it! I always wanted to ask: What feature do you like about it? I mean what for do you use dropbox? Just having a cloud storage place?

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#16 2017-10-17 02:05:30

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
Website

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

martix wrote:

there is finally someone actually using it!

I use Dropbox too, and find it extremely useful. smile  Not for backup - I wouldn't rely on something like DB for that - but for totally effortless synchronizing between machines. (eg Firefox "Scrapbook" extension + DB is a nice combination.) I still have to look into implementing encfs + DB, which might be a useful improvement.

If this was just down to my personal opinion...
but of course I can install Dropbox, or whatever, for myself anyway - as can anyone else. This is about providing a convenience for people new to BL. If there's a better FOSS alternative, then by all means let's think about that instead of DB.

Anyway, @thoro if the Dropbox install were moved to the welcome script, wouldn't the Dropbox system tray icon provide the same functionality (and more) as the Dropbox pipemenu? As far as I can see, once DB is installed the only entry you'd want to use every day is "Open Dropbox Folder", and that's on the systray icon too.

Last edited by johnraff (2017-10-17 02:15:09)


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#17 2017-10-17 05:11:07

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,733

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Last I used it was quite a resource hog so it ended up in nightly cron (allowed to run for an hour or so). Irc there was a python script by them for starting/stoping/status, so no need for anything to sit next to clipit. In other words if one would use it, it might be completely different than planned.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2017-10-22 11:42:46)

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#18 2017-10-17 05:48:17

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
Website

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

brontosaurusrex wrote:

Last I used it was quite a resource hog

Agreed. It depends on how much you are syncing of course, but it takes up plenty of RAM, and some CPU while starting up. Not for everyone for sure. (Try unpacking an icon theme inside a synced directory. yikes )

Irc there was a python script by them for starting/stoping/status, so no need for anything to sit next to clipit.

dropbox.py is a handy CLI interface for starting/stopping/installing or getting shareable urls (the BL script uses it), but I don't think it would be easy not to have the system tray icon appearing. Is it a major problem?

Last edited by johnraff (2017-10-19 05:43:57)


John
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( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#19 2017-10-17 06:35:41

nore
>2⁹
From: squirrels' nest
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 440

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

martix wrote:

Ah, there is finally someone actually using it!

Me too, for

  1. synchronising certain conf files and documents between my own workstations,

  2. loading and saving documents through netbrowser at work, where I don't have access to my own device,

  3. quick sharing files for reading.

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#20 2017-10-17 06:40:33

nore
>2⁹
From: squirrels' nest
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 440

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

johnraff wrote:

I don't think it would be easy not to have the system tray icon appearing. Is it a major problem?

Never mind the icon, but if daemon is not running in background, I would have to remember to syncronise changed files myself before shutting down.

Last edited by nore (2017-10-17 07:25:20)

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#21 2017-10-17 06:46:11

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
Website

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

^I think the daemon is an essential part of Dropbox. And I agree having files automatically synchronized in real time is the appeal. If you did it manually, then you might as well use some other simpler system.


John
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#22 2017-10-17 07:50:24

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,733

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

johnraff wrote:

I don't think it would be easy not to have the system tray icon appearing. Is it a major problem?.

Not a problem imho, my memory might not serve me well and there was a systray icon  even with that python script.

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#23 2017-10-17 15:10:19

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

johnraff wrote:

Firefox "Scrapbook" extension + DB is a nice combination.

That Scrapbook extension is really useful. Just for my understanding: Is it about saving the websites through Scrapbook in the DB (cloud-)folder, so those files can be accessed from any device with a DB-client and that folder will be synchronized between devices? I tried to do the same setup without dropbox.

1. I decided to try Owncloud (Nextcloud would be basically the same here). Opened the site with all the providers here. Went for owndrive, because it was the first one on the free plans list (read positive reviews about hostiso).

2. On owndrive.com I created a free account - no need for banking data, basically email and some personal details. 1 GB storage at no cost.

3. Installed owncloud-client from here:

https://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=isv:ownCloud:desktop&package=owncloud-client

4. Started ownCloud desktop sync client and used my.owndrive.com with the login details from the registration. It creates an ~/ownCloud folder, which will be synchronized with the cloud storage. It has a systray icon too with a detailed menu there.

5. Under Scrapbook/Preferences I configured the ownCloud folder under "save to".

Btw that online storage place can be accessed via browser too (https://my.owndrive.com/index.php/login).

Edit: Forgot to add that it's very easy to share files with anyone as it creates a link via "click on file", "Sharing", check "Share Link", e.g.

https://my.owndrive.com/index.php/s/ucDCfau4Daiy6HS

It turns out that there are also official debian packages.

Last edited by martix (2017-10-17 23:33:59)

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#24 2017-10-18 03:32:46

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,217
Website

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

^So owncloud allows you to use FOSS software on your machine, but the web service is still proprietary, of course. How reliable is it turning out to be for you? Does it support symlinks in the synchronized folder? (That's how I use my Dropox folder - symlinks to the directories that I want to sync, so the local system doesn't have to be changed at all.)


John
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#25 2017-10-18 12:32:28

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [DONE]Remove the Dropbox pipemenu?

Well, ideally with Nextcloud or Owncloud there would be no hosting company, but the user's own server. As it says on the wiki: "ownCloud is functionally very similar to the widely used Dropbox, with the primary functional difference being that the Server Edition of ownCloud is free and open-source, and thereby allowing anyone to install and operate it." If the owndrive service is based on it, then the web service might be also open source. So far I tested it's doing what it should do, synchronizing works fine (also menu entry in a dynamic menu, systray icon, tint2 icon, launch on system start, etc.).

There are lot of posts about storage services and symlinks, even dropbox seems to discourage using that method. I tried it with owncloud and it shows a message under the "not synced" tab. Reading about it reveals that symlinks for cloud storage are often insecure and unreliable (on owncloud something to do with the webdav protocol, loops, etc.). It says in an owncloud post: "it's possible to define multiple syncs, one per (server) subfolder, which can be associated with subdirectories on the server. This works well without symlinks and is the recommended way."

Setting up and using owncloud was so far easier than I expected, although I don't like (need) this kind of services. Some users even integrate it in the file system. Nextcloud, Seafile or Syncthing might be worth a try too (although Syncthing is only about synchronizing, not about file hosting).

Last edited by martix (2017-10-18 12:49:36)

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