Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 13:09:11

^ Yeah MALsPa, added the Steve Pusser thingamajig.

Overall honestly yeah Hoas, I am. It's not like anyone who uses Firefox or for that matter anything open source ever actually does extensive auditing of the code themselves. We're all assuming many other people are though and to whatever extent, am sure there are "eyes on the code".

For real, Firefox could have plenty of malware cooked into it and doubt very many people would have a clue. Though I <heart> open source, could never deny it's amazing and kickarse. Unless someone is using a purely open source only gnu/Linux OS, fact is they've already got plenty of closed source running. Stuff like adobe's curse aka: flashplayer and gawds know what all else is lurking on each of our (the avg nixers) systems.

With the exception of Richard Stallman and the CIA and FBI probably have plenty of stuff stashed on his comp.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-28 13:12:21)

Nili · 2017-05-28 13:40:56

I've used Mozilla Firefox around 2006/7 under Windows XP at that time. Until later time i switched to Iceweasel on Debian later on to Pale Moon. I find PM ideal for my current minimum settings. When i'll buy a new and powerful computer finally i'd pass to Chrome. For the moment very happy with Pale Moon.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-05-28 13:47:24

BLizgreat! wrote:

It's not like anyone who uses Firefox or for that matter anything open source ever actually does extensive auditing of the code themselves.

OpenBSD routinely conducts source code audits for the base system but it is unusual in that respect.

I would hope that some are paying attention though and availability of the code does certainly make development much more effective.

viro wrote:

All software sucks, be it open-source [or] proprietary. The only question is what can be done with particular instance of suckage, and that’s where having the source matters.

EDIT: also, I would immediately question why Opera don't want me to see their code?

Even Microsoft have finally acknowledged the inherent advantages of the open-source development model and that sort of behaviour just makes me suspect that they are attempting to conceal something untoward.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-05-28 13:51:34)

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 14:08:37

Have mucho respect for you Hoas,

You certainly take pains to know of which you speak fellow nixer. I'm not going to let my imagination run wild in regards the whole security and transparency thing though. Stuff like the firmware installed overseas ( I mean ok ... Coreboot etc, how many people actually use it ?), people running window$ in virtualbox or even kvm. Overall I know nothing about that but is there a setting someone can hit to keep win10 from phoning home or doing all the stuff it was designed to do ? When it's confined to VM and given network access. Majority of gnu/Nixers dualboot with window$ outright anyway. Too much to even try to bother getting into this.

Bsd is definitely still on the 2do list, once again, you've already been there, done that though. Dratz ! Ninja'd by Hoas again. Somebody hacks my box, they'll be sorely disappointed anyway.

For real finding Opera to be pretty dang nice overall. Firefox is staying default but this puppy is going to be dorked with further too. If for nothing else, because I haven't dorked with it on gnu/Linux in quite awhile. So it's got a whole novelty thing going on.

@Vasa1, yeah we've been discussing such too. It's just one of those things, Mozilla's supposed to cooking up some major changes. It's out of the userbases hands though. All I can do is hope for the best and watch and see. I don't use over many extensions anyway. Pretty much down to noscript for the most part. Though Palemoon is an alternative that's supposed to keep support for them and personally, if wanted to or had to have an extension I'd likely download one of any number of recent (though) older versions of Firefox from the Mozilla archive and it should/would run on blissfully for a long time to come.

@Palemoon, just cause I don't like it ( based on a monumentally really brief look at it) doesn't mean it doesn't have merit and is certainly nothing against people who do like it. Though honestly, I can't see myself becoming a fan. In a recent thread for giggles, downloaded and ran FFv10 from the Mozilla archives for a bit. Looked mucho like Palemoon, though believe it was faster than the PM v 27.xxx I dorked with for all of 2mins.

Think my quest for a backup browser is ended with Opera for time being. Will have to spend more time dorking with it, to really form any worthwhile opinion. At the moment looks as if it's got some good potential.

@Hoas, M$ is no doubt always concealing something untoward. Though the good thing about making 90bil a year and still having an open monopoly, they do much, much, MUCH that's untoward right out in the open and nobody cares. Not the govt's and the consumers on avg are completely clueless and also likely wouldn't care much, even if a catalog of M$'s dark deeds were handed to them outright.
They'd shrug and the next time they buy a new pc form factor,
pay the M$ tax without complaint. That's just my pointless babble opinion on that topic, shrugs.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-28 14:14:04)

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 14:36:16

Also just cause I've developed a woody for Opera for time being. Doesn't mean the browserage discussion should close down though !

Afterthought @Vasa1, guessing many of the more popular one's will find their way over into this web-extensions deal. Are some I would like to see live on, web development one's in particular and etc. Though if am understanding it, the newer versions of FF will also be fully compatible with Chrome/ium extensions.

So while some will be lost, hopefully some will also be gained with this too (Mozilla and FF users will then be able to poach among the efforts of the Chrome extension devs ?) Overall don't know where it'll all lead but been using Firefox for too long to just give up on it. Hoping Mozilla does something kickbutt to change the game. Supposedly Chrome's got 60%+ of the browser share and growing. Worries me whenever too much control over something like the net, falls into too few hands for sure.

I can say much about Google Inc ( more than a bit of it good things.) The do no evil, errrrr ... not so much and one thing I could never say about them and the people on their payroll, they are NOT stupid.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-28 14:49:53)

martix · 2017-05-28 15:41:13

Steve wrote:

^^ martix looks like ungoogled chromium is available for stretch.
https://ungoogled-software.github.io/un … -binaries/

Oh, that's great news!!! Thanks! After upgrading the system, that will be the first .deb file for me to check it out.

Well, hmmm, naive me... I wrote ".deb file". Actually there are 7 (seven!) .deb files. Am I supposed to install them one by one? I just could not find any helpful install instructions...

Last edited by martix (2017-06-30 15:32:45)

DeepDayze · 2017-05-28 16:01:02

Browser wars on Linux are just as interesting as on Windows. Remember the big Netscape vs Internet Explorer battle back in the old days of Windows 95/98?

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 16:52:12

Another thanks Steve, interesting find.

DeepDayze, yeppers see that, M$ won that battle but ended up losing the war. Netscape went down swinging.

Speaking of M$ browserage, anybody care to share their impressions of Edge browser ? Have to admit am sorta curious how their latest browser is stacking up.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-05-28 16:54:37

BLizgreat! wrote:

Edge browser

I tried it very briefly in my Windows 10 system and I found it to be pretty fast at loading the pages and content (perhaps faster than Chrome) but the rendering was even buggier than the obvious rivals and it crashed quite a few times in the hour or so I used it.

In short, I prefer firefox in Windows as well

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 17:12:30

^ Thanks Hoas. Appreciate your 1st hand feedback my friend. Gawds help me, really am kicking around the idea of installing friggin win8.1 in kvm, WHY !?!?! Whyyyyyyyyyyy !?!?! Why not just hit myself in the foot with a hammer or summin instead !

Vll!

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-05-28 17:24:59

Windows 10 has a Subsystem for Linux that allows for the installation of a minimal Ubuntu userspace:

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 776#p49776

]:D

(Sorry for the OT, couldn't resist the opportunity to be evil)

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 18:01:24

^ LMAO,

Ps, Posts cannot contain only capital letters.

stevep · 2017-05-28 20:11:46

Slimjet has an option to invert the page colors if you find the glaring white background too obnoxious.

For the real open source fans, I also managed to rebuild IceCat 52.0.2 on the OBS for some different releases:
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show … Cat/icecat

I'll see if I can update it to the latest 52.1.0

The latest Qupzilla is available in an AppImage for those that don't have a recent enough Qt 5. It seemed very fast to me. When the OBS adds Stretch to their build platforms, hopefully at the Stretch release, I should be able to build it natively--though that mean it's stuck on Stretch's Qt 5 webengine, so maybe AppImage would be better.

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-28 21:28:41

^ Hey, thanks for the adds. Atm am good, still FF is staying the go to but fairly well happy with Opera. Thing is pretty snazzy really. Remember Qupzilla did come up and was favorably mentioned while looking over available browserage.

Anyone had experience with it ? Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-31 02:03:13)

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-30 20:26:55

Babble update about this:

Yep, continue to be annoyed with Debian related to this keeping friggin Firefox updated in the repo's, already posted the link which will show people what issues xyz-patches are supposed to have addressed but was dorking around with the about:support thing, which is friggin cool and useful. Provides some really interesting info a features when you get into it.

In the Firefox browser address bar type "about:support" and hit Enter/Return. One of the things there, is start Firefox in Safe-mode. Another neat feature found there is "Show update history" so mentioned was dorking and clicked on that. WHAM up pops the entire update history for my browser and the patches for FF v53 ... .02 and .03 are listed there as "Security Update(s)" !

Wth ... they can't keep latest release version of Firefox even in the experimental repo's !?!?!?! Debian dang it, step up your game as regards this !!!! Firefox is and always has been the premiere open source browser and doesn't deserve such treatment, nor neglect !

Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-30 20:33:58)

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-30 20:50:25

AH HA ! More babble, why not ?

Still much prefer my way, though it's run independent of the OS's package management, shrugs. Only limitations found that I can recall are.

a)Seems someone may have to keep a Firefox version installed via package manager, believe one time I removed them all and it wiped out the package which supplies the Firefox profile manager too. Though quite likely could've just turned around and reinstalled the package. Can't remember it's name.

b)Harder to set my version of Firefox to x-www-browser in system alternatives. Though several ways to work around this occur.

1. Symlink the normally installed versions /usr/bin to being the one I use instead.

2. Thunar allows someone to define custom commands. So I can simply set it up to launch my preferred instance of Firefox for .html and .xml etc files and it shall doeth my bidding.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-30 20:56:10)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-05-30 21:21:24

BLizgreat! wrote:

Wth ... they can't keep latest release version of Firefox even in the experimental repo's !?!?!?!

Debian 9.0 will be released in three weeks, I don't think Debian give a s**t about the experimental repositories right now and I fully support them in that decision.

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-30 21:44:07

Well you're of course entitled to whichever opinion(s) Hoas. Though as someone who constantly mentions security, security, security. Would think it might annoy you more knowing some nixers are being left to run a web-browser that's apparently missing two security patches by Debian.

Though you prefer the firefox-esr thing, so doesn't affect you personally. I mean how long can it take to move it over into the repos ? My guess would be less than 3mins, shrugs. Mentioned I also really have no reason to be concerned, I always have the latest Firefox release version as they come out. Other than I noticed this and don't so much like it.

after-thought, though guess anyone competent enough to be tracking and mixing from experimental repositories should already be well aware of this type of junk too.

The Iceweasel practice was also stupid and craptastic if remembering how it worked correctly. That being that it took awhile for Debian Mozilla team members to get ahold of latest Firefox, then strip out the Firefox branding and add back the Iceweasel stuff in their place. End result is in the interim nixers were left with longer windows of vulnerability. When security issues or other serious junk had already been found and fixed in the versions offered by Mozilla.

Shrugs ... that at least is over and really agree with you, it's not like this is a OMG the world's going to end kind of situation. Still a bit disappointed in the way Debian's handling Firefox and it's users. In other words blahblahblah. Just saying ... though nother afterthought eh. Seriously doubt it's all that big of a deal anyway, assuming FF missing two patches + gnu/Nix is still 34x(times) as secure as latest M$ Edge browser fully up to date regardless.

Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-30 21:58:31)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-05-30 21:46:52

BLizgreat! wrote:

as someone who constantly mentions security, security, security. Would think it might annoy you more knowing nixers are being left to run a web-browser that's apparently missing two security patches by Debian.

As I have already said, the non-ESR version of firefox is (likely to be) *less* secure, that's why I don't like it

BLizgreat! · 2017-05-30 21:59:28

^ No worries, per usual respectcha Hoas and your preferences. Even if we differ in terms of this topic, shrugs. Oops, also doubt this latest release version of Firefox does anything much better or different than the firefox-esr you prefer anyways. Though it should have improvements earlier versions lack. At least that'd be logical.

Perhaps a tad of bugs earlier ones don't have too. Though that's what Mozilla's patches are for. Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-05-30 22:02:35)

#21 2017-05-28 13:09:11

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#22 2017-05-28 13:40:56

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#23 2017-05-28 13:47:24

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#24 2017-05-28 14:08:37

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#25 2017-05-28 14:36:16

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#26 2017-05-28 15:41:13

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#27 2017-05-28 16:01:02

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#28 2017-05-28 16:52:12

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#29 2017-05-28 16:54:37

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#30 2017-05-28 17:12:30

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#31 2017-05-28 17:24:59

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#32 2017-05-28 18:01:24

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#33 2017-05-28 20:11:46

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#34 2017-05-28 21:28:41

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#35 2017-05-30 20:26:55

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#36 2017-05-30 20:50:25

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#37 2017-05-30 21:21:24

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#38 2017-05-30 21:44:07

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#39 2017-05-30 21:46:52

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#40 2017-05-30 21:59:28

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Board footer