net-install on Devuan Jessie

jochen · 2017-04-01 07:40:23

Hi,
with little modifications the net-install script could be also used on Devuan Jessie.
It works almost fine when ignoring the warnings.
But one thing could be improved: due to the lack of systemd, network-manager does not install on Devuan. Instead wicd should be installed on Devuan.

BTW: first I tried installing from the Bunsenlabs install dvd, but that does not boot on UEFI-Systems without CSM. Devuan install dvd worked fine.

Jochen

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-01 10:26:48

jochen wrote:

I tried installing from the Bunsenlabs install dvd, but that does not boot on UEFI-Systems without CSM.

We have an image that should work with UEFI systems:

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3423

If you don't want to use systemd as your init system then you can try switching to sysvinit instead, everything should still work (even NetworkManager):

sudo apt-get install sysvinit systemd-

BunsenLabs will then use the systemd-shim to hook in the required services for NetworkManager and such.

If you do not want any trace of systemd of your box then I can recommend Star:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/

This is based on Devuan already and offers a very polished desktop that you may find familiar

Moving forward, for Debian stretch and BunsenLabs Helium, the supported alternative init systems will be runit-init & openrc, both far more Unix-like than sysvinit, IMO 8)

jochen · 2017-04-01 19:50:33

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

If you don't want to use systemd as your init system then you can try switching to sysvinit instead, everything should still work (even NetworkManager):

The problem with systemd is not (only) the init system. systemd spreads like cancer and takes control over the whole linux system. The Devuan guys are working hard to remove systemd dependencies from packages. I like Devuan, and I like the Crunchbang/Bunsenlab desktop. With the netinstall-script it's easy install the Bunsenlab desktop on top of Devuan. This combination is IMHO the best available Linux desktop.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-01 20:16:34

jochen wrote:

systemd spreads like cancer and takes control over the whole linux system

Ah, I see, I didn't realise you were one of the "tentacles" crowd... 8o

Have you considered OpenBSD?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-01 20:21:26

jochen wrote:

With the netinstall-script it's easy install the Bunsenlab desktop on top of Devuan

I'm curious — are Devuan still using the shim?

pgrep -a systemd

Horizon_Brave · 2017-04-01 21:45:52

jochen wrote:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
If you don't want to use systemd as your init system then you can try switching to sysvinit instead, everything should still work (even NetworkManager):
The problem with systemd is not (only) the init system. systemd spreads like cancer and takes control over the whole linux system.

C'mon man, aren't you being a bit sensationalist and band-wagony with this...? I'm obviously no linux expert, but I don't see systemd as being something so nefariously monothithic that it's a "Spreading Cancer", you make it sound like it's some unstoppable super secret rebel ops force...

geekosupremo · 2017-04-01 23:56:05

It seems, to my tin ear, that many of the complaints about systemd stem from how "untested" it is, also there seems to be a general mis-trust of the main developers, one Lennart Poettering.

Since I have only recently really gotten into *nix I dodged most of the scuffle that Mr. Poettering stepped into with his first major system item, so I have no dog in this fight. Also I do my best to believe in growth and that everyone can learn and change, if they chose too, so I'm willing to see where this goes, even if I don't fling myself into the systemd pool.

As I understand it the underlying principles of *nix seem to be at odds with systemd, but I'm about as close to a systems expert as grape juice is to Dom Perignon.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-02 00:05:53

I'll just leave this here as a counterweight...

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

Please continue any further discussion about systemd in this thread:

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=1249

Thank you!

jochen · 2017-04-02 06:17:57

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I'm curious — are Devuan still using the shim?

No, they don't.
https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgra … -to-Devuan

If there are any remaining systemd components you can safely remove these now. If you are a desktop environment that depends on systemd the display manager may be removed as a result and disrupt your x session, so you should pay attention to the next set of instructions before doing this.
root@devuan:~# apt-get purge systemd-shim libsystemd0

geekosupremo · 2017-04-03 04:42:00

Thanks for the further reading HoaS! I like seeing opinions from those much more informed than I am.

ohnonot · 2017-04-03 07:07:55

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Moving forward, for Debian stretch and BunsenLabs Helium, the supported alternative init systems will be runit-init & openrc, both far more Unix-like than sysvinit, IMO 8)

oh, that sounds very interesting!
can you elaborate on "supported" please?

[rant]
I heard lennart poettering left the systemd development team, is that true? #toolazytogoogle
[/rant]

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-03 07:13:25

ohnonot wrote:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Moving forward, for Debian stretch and BunsenLabs Helium, the supported alternative init systems will be runit-init & openrc, both far more Unix-like than sysvinit, IMO 8)
oh, that sounds very interesting!
can you elaborate on "supported" please?

I will be using runit-init so I can handle those problems and Debian is officially supporting OpenRC as their alternative init system (can't find the link right now, I'll look again tonight).

In this case, "supported" means "stuff should work"

ohnonot · 2017-04-03 07:15:38

^'k thanks.
does it also mean that bunsenlabs development will be focused on avoiding systemd dependencies?

jochen · 2017-04-03 07:15:46

What's the problem with sysvinit? My Crunchbang Linux was booting in 8 seconds from grub prompt to slim login screen on an ancient Thinkpad T61 (Intel Core Duo cpu).

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-03 07:33:40

ohnonot wrote:

does it also mean that bunsenlabs development will be focused on avoiding systemd dependencies?

The only BunsenLabs package that is in any way dependent on systemd is bunsen-pepperflash; I can't say whether there will be any more packages that also depend on systemd and I also cannot make any comment about future package selection, sorry.

The approach has been generally init-agnostic so far and I see no reason why this will not continue.

I like runit-init so I will try my best to keep it working with BunsenLabs.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-04-03 07:35:45

jochen wrote:

What's the problem with sysvinit?

https://busybox.net/~vda/init_vs_runsv.html

I don't like sysvinit because I find it far too complicated and I feel that it does not follow UNIX principles ]:D

[/troll]

johnraff · 2017-04-03 07:59:54

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The only BunsenLabs package that is in any way dependent on systemd is bunsen-pepperflash

And even there it's only a "Recommends:", not a hard dependency. Without systemd the auto upgrades and popup notifications won't work, but flash will still be installed and can be upgraded manually, or by some other timer like cron.

The approach has been generally init-agnostic so far and I see no reason why this will not continue.

That seems to be the general mood round here. (I've always tried to make the packages I work on as modular as possible.)

geekosupremo · 2017-04-03 22:40:02

Blessings on all of you devs for helping us have options!

#1 2017-04-01 07:40:23

net-install on Devuan Jessie

#2 2017-04-01 10:26:48

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#3 2017-04-01 19:50:33

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#4 2017-04-01 20:16:34

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#5 2017-04-01 20:21:26

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#6 2017-04-01 21:45:52

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#7 2017-04-01 23:56:05

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#8 2017-04-02 00:05:53

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#9 2017-04-02 06:17:57

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#10 2017-04-03 04:42:00

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#11 2017-04-03 07:07:55

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#12 2017-04-03 07:13:25

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#13 2017-04-03 07:15:38

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#14 2017-04-03 07:15:46

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#15 2017-04-03 07:33:40

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#16 2017-04-03 07:35:45

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#17 2017-04-03 07:59:54

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

#18 2017-04-03 22:40:02

Re: net-install on Devuan Jessie

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