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#1 2016-07-03 14:38:36

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 9,280
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DW Critique Summary

I'll paraphrase. As they appeared in the review (hard not to immediately comment on the conky one, must resist)...

  1. Installer theme looks flat/disabled

  2. Default wallpapers are all grey

  3. bl-welcome's step-by-step approach isn't ideal for those wanting most of what's offered/can't set & forget

  4. bl-welcome can take a long time, over 40 minutes in some cases

  5. bl-welcome failed to add Debian backports

  6. Virtual desktop switching via scrolling should be easier to disable

  7. GREY, SO MUCH GREY, THOUGHTS NOW GREY AS SCREEN GGGLLLGGGLLGLLLGGG

  8. conky should be easier to disable and/or remove

  9. Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use

  10. BL Openbox DE not as feature-rich as 'fuller' DEs

  11. BL vs Debian+OB, might the latter be faster to set up in Jessie's user case?

Jesse Smith wrote:

In the end, I did grow to like Bunsen with its clean, fast user interface. I like the distribution's tweaks to Debian such as adding sudo and providing application menu installers. I think the initial welcome script should probably either be automated or ask all its questions up front and then go to work in the background. It took a while for me to get the interface looking the way I wanted it to and less like the inside of a mine shaft, but once I did the distribution provided a good set of default applications and desktop functionality.

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#2 2016-07-03 16:13:16

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: DW Critique Summary

  1. I vote for more grey.

  2. I vote for more grey.

  3. Yes, I think the script should gather the answers first then do it's stuff in the background.

  4. LOLWUT? Anyway that should be addressed by the above.

  5. This has not yet been reproduced and Jesse failed to supply further details.

  6. I agree.

  7. I vote for more grey.

  8. *tumbleweed rolls across stage*

  9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybGOT4d2Hs8 devil

  10. Isn't that intentional? One person's features are another's bloat...

  11. I don't think so, no.


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#3 2016-07-03 16:29:32

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: DW Critique Summary

I agree on most of your reaction! @johnraff is in the driver's seat, item 3 it is.

Forget 1. As for 2 and 7, I figure we'll continue to discuss a little visual refresh until something organic arises. Grey will ALWAYS be a deafult option, if not the actual default look, but it will remain majorly grey for a long time still, I suspect. monkey @damo, what say you?

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#4 2016-07-03 16:41:20

damo
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Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,823

Re: DW Critique Summary

Grey was #!, and the "community" wanted a continuation, so it grey it became. I like dark themes personally, but colour in the backgrounds.

Let's see what happens with Helium!


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#5 2016-07-03 16:53:59

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: DW Critique Summary

hhh wrote:

Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use

How about https://packages.debian.org/jessie/gnome-packagekit?


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#6 2016-07-03 17:11:38

damo
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Registered: 2015-08-20
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Re: DW Critique Summary

9. Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use

10. BL Openbox DE not as feature-rich as 'fuller' DEs

9: Tough. BL isn't Ubuntu/Mint.

10. Openbox is Openbox. Use a DE instead of a WM if you want lots of "features".

Did DW ever do a review of Crunchbang? Because it should have been virtually identical!


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#7 2016-07-03 17:13:07

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: DW Critique Summary


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#8 2016-07-03 17:39:23

damo
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Registered: 2015-08-20
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Re: DW Critique Summary

DW wrote:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche CrunchBang fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with plain Debian, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is CrunchBang appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Hmmm.... hmm


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#9 2016-07-03 18:44:38

Sector11
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From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,040

Re: DW Critique Summary

following damo's "Hmmm.... hmm " I just had to do it.

A slight tweak that makes about as much sense:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche Ubuntu fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with plain LinuxMint, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is Ubuntu appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Another slight tweak, not using an OS:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche Ford fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with a plain Chevy, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is Ford appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

And my favourite; bathroom humour:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche a toothbrush fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with a plain toothpick, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is a toothbrush appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Not to be taken seriously. - Which IMHO applies to the 'original' quote


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#10 2016-07-03 19:21:25

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,040

Re: DW Critique Summary

  1. Installer theme looks flat/disabled

    1. so!  Less disrtraction

    2. matches the BL 'themes'

    3. use once - throw away concept anyway

  2. Default wallpapers are all grey

    1. Gandalf the Grey

    2. The Grey Wolf

    3. The Grey Whale

    4. Greyhound

    5. Earl Grey Tea

    6. Grey Matter, I still have some

    7. BL Wallpapers - they are not alone

  3. bl-welcome's step-by-step approach isn't ideal for those wanting most of what's offered/can't set & forget

    1. we have to start somewhere

    2. it will get better

  4. bl-welcome can take a long time, over 40 minutes in some cases

    1. or less than 1

    2. depends on what you want

  5. bl-welcome failed to add Debian backports

    1. not here it didn't

  6. Virtual desktop switching via scrolling should be easier to disable

    1. if you say so

    2. I like it

  7. GREY, SO MUCH GREY, THOUGHTS NOW GREY AS SCREEN GGGLLLGGGLLGLLLGGG

    1. you need training

  8. conky should be easier to disable and/or remove

    1. Try this command $ userdel <your_username>

  9. Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use

    1. YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT!!!!

    2. It's installed by default in all major distros

  10. BL Openbox DE not as feature-rich as 'fuller' DEs

    1. If you don't know that OB is NOT a DE you wouldn't understand

  11. BL vs Debian+OB, might the latter be faster to set up in Jessie's user case?

    1. NO!

    2. BL is Debian Jessie - but with a LOT more than just OB

    3. There is a whole bunch of TLC under the hood here that you just didn't get!


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.

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#11 2016-07-04 02:15:03

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,538
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Re: DW Critique Summary

#3 keeps coming up and it's been on the back-burner for some time. Especially, the repeated 'apt-get update' every time a repo is added can get a bit irritating.

It would mean a fairly extensive rewrite, but I can see an intermediate way forward - keep the pages as they are, but instead of actually calling the system functions at the time the user chooses them, add the user's decisions to a list (an array, or several in fact) and then, at the end, execute everything in the repos_to_add array, everything in apps_to_install, backported_apps_to_install and so on...

At the moment, the whole thing is assuming a "hands on" user interface, with questions/responses going on all the time, and there is a possible snag with batch processing - if the user edits any related system files while the script is running then things will break. The current approach keeps him/her occupied and out of mischief.

Later on in development, there seems to be a lot of support for a checklist/menu style. That would basically mean completely dropping the current "conversation" approach, and we would need "click here for more info" links on each item. If we weren't careful, it would also mean new users might select undesirable options without reading the Stern Warnings first. neutral
(At the moment, a lot of options are default "No", ie just clicking enter will skip them.)

But anyway, there seems to be a lot of demand for a batch approach, so, yes, thinking about it...


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#12 2016-07-04 19:58:33

pvsage
Internal Affairs
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,433

Re: DW Critique Summary

  1. Yay gray!

  2. Yay gray!

  3. We'd already been discussing this for Helium, right?

  4. What takes so long is unpacking/replacing, often several times slower than downloading.  This is an upstream issue.

  5. I thought we had patched that.

  6. We can change this in our default Openbox rc, but I consider it an upstream issue because it's default behavior in Openbox.

  7. Yay gray!

  8. *chirping crickets*

  9. LUL who uses Synaptic anymore?

  10. It's not "less feature-rich", it's "leaner".

  11. Not if he wants to leave out task-lxde-desktop.  Trust us.  Try installing "vanilla" Debian LXDE, select the openbox session from the display manager, and see how much you can get done with Openbox's default minimum settings.


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#13 2016-07-05 06:46:30

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,538
Website

Re: DW Critique Summary

About bl-welcome and backports:

pvsage wrote:

5. I thought we had patched that.

Yes there was an issue, but it got fixed quite some time ago. Could it be he was installing from an old iso?


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