DW Critique Summary

hhh · 2016-07-03 14:38:36

I'll paraphrase. As they appeared in the review (hard not to immediately comment on the conky one, must resist)...

Installer theme looks flat/disabled
Default wallpapers are all grey
bl-welcome's step-by-step approach isn't ideal for those wanting most of what's offered/can't set & forget
bl-welcome can take a long time, over 40 minutes in some cases
bl-welcome failed to add Debian backports
Virtual desktop switching via scrolling should be easier to disable
GREY, SO MUCH GREY, THOUGHTS NOW GREY AS SCREEN GGGLLLGGGLLGLLLGGG
conky should be easier to disable and/or remove
Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use
BL Openbox DE not as feature-rich as 'fuller' DEs
BL vs Debian+OB, might the latter be faster to set up in Jessie's user case?

Jesse Smith wrote:

In the end, I did grow to like Bunsen with its clean, fast user interface. I like the distribution's tweaks to Debian such as adding sudo and providing application menu installers. I think the initial welcome script should probably either be automated or ask all its questions up front and then go to work in the background. It took a while for me to get the interface looking the way I wanted it to and less like the inside of a mine shaft, but once I did the distribution provided a good set of default applications and desktop functionality.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-07-03 16:13:16

I vote for more grey.
I vote for more grey.
Yes, I think the script should gather the answers first then do it's stuff in the background.
LOLWUT? Anyway that should be addressed by the above.
This has not yet been reproduced and Jesse failed to supply further details.
I agree.
I vote for more grey.
*tumbleweed rolls across stage*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybGOT4d2Hs8 ]:D
Isn't that intentional? One person's features are another's bloat...
I don't think so, no.

hhh · 2016-07-03 16:29:32

I agree on most of your reaction! @johnraff is in the driver's seat, item 3 it is.

Forget 1. As for 2 and 7, I figure we'll continue to discuss a little visual refresh until something organic arises. Grey will ALWAYS be a deafult option, if not the actual default look, but it will remain majorly grey for a long time still, I suspect. 8o @damo, what say you?

damo · 2016-07-03 16:41:20

Grey was #!, and the "community" wanted a continuation, so it grey it became. I like dark themes personally, but colour in the backgrounds.

Let's see what happens with Helium!

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-07-03 16:53:59

hhh wrote:

Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use

How about https://packages.debian.org/jessie/gnome-packagekit?

damo · 2016-07-03 17:11:38

9. Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use
10. BL Openbox DE not as feature-rich as 'fuller' DEs

9: Tough. BL isn't Ubuntu/Mint.

10. Openbox is Openbox. Use a DE instead of a WM if you want lots of "features".

Did DW ever do a review of Crunchbang? Because it should have been virtually identical!

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-07-03 17:13:07

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu … 11#feature

damo · 2016-07-03 17:39:23

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu … 11#feature

DW wrote:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche CrunchBang fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with plain Debian, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is CrunchBang appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Hmmm....

Sector11 · 2016-07-03 18:44:38

following damo's "Hmmm.... " I just had to do it.

A slight tweak that makes about as much sense:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche Ubuntu fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with plain LinuxMint, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is Ubuntu appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Another slight tweak, not using an OS:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche Ford fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with a plain Chevy, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is Ford appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

And my favourite; bathroom humour:

Once the system was up and running and looking the way I wanted it to, the experience was pleasantly boring. Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche a toothbrush fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with a plain toothpick, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is a toothbrush appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Not to be taken seriously. - Which IMHO applies to the 'original' quote

Sector11 · 2016-07-03 19:21:25

Installer theme looks flat/disabled
1. so! Less disrtraction
2. matches the BL 'themes'
3. use once - throw away concept anyway
Default wallpapers are all grey
1. Gandalf the Grey
2. The Grey Wolf
3. The Grey Whale
4. Greyhound
5. Earl Grey Tea
6. Grey Matter, I still have some
7. BL Wallpapers - they are not alone
bl-welcome's step-by-step approach isn't ideal for those wanting most of what's offered/can't set & forget
1. we have to start somewhere
2. it will get better
bl-welcome can take a long time, over 40 minutes in some cases
1. or less than 1
2. depends on what you want
bl-welcome failed to add Debian backports
1. not here it didn't
Virtual desktop switching via scrolling should be easier to disable
1. if you say so
2. I like it
GREY, SO MUCH GREY, THOUGHTS NOW GREY AS SCREEN GGGLLLGGGLLGLLLGGG
1. you need training
conky should be easier to disable and/or remove
1. Try this command $ userdel <your_username>
Synaptic might be too tough for newbies to use
1. YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT!!!!
2. It's installed by default in all major distros
BL Openbox DE not as feature-rich as 'fuller' DEs
1. If you don't know that OB is NOT a DE you wouldn't understand
BL vs Debian+OB, might the latter be faster to set up in Jessie's user case?
1. NO!
2. BL is Debian Jessie - but with a LOT more than just OB
3. There is a whole bunch of TLC under the hood here that you just didn't get!

johnraff · 2016-07-04 02:15:03

#3 keeps coming up and it's been on the back-burner for some time. Especially, the repeated 'apt-get update' every time a repo is added can get a bit irritating.

It would mean a fairly extensive rewrite, but I can see an intermediate way forward - keep the pages as they are, but instead of actually calling the system functions at the time the user chooses them, add the user's decisions to a list (an array, or several in fact) and then, at the end, execute everything in the repos_to_add array, everything in apps_to_install, backported_apps_to_install and so on...

At the moment, the whole thing is assuming a "hands on" user interface, with questions/responses going on all the time, and there is a possible snag with batch processing - if the user edits any related system files while the script is running then things will break. The current approach keeps him/her occupied and out of mischief.

Later on in development, there seems to be a lot of support for a checklist/menu style. That would basically mean completely dropping the current "conversation" approach, and we would need "click here for more info" links on each item. If we weren't careful, it would also mean new users might select undesirable options without reading the Stern Warnings first.
(At the moment, a lot of options are default "No", ie just clicking enter will skip them.)

But anyway, there seems to be a lot of demand for a batch approach, so, yes, thinking about it...

pvsage · 2016-07-04 19:58:33

Yay gray!
Yay gray!
We'd already been discussing this for Helium, right?
What takes so long is unpacking/replacing, often several times slower than downloading. This is an upstream issue.
I thought we had patched that.
We can change this in our default Openbox rc, but I consider it an upstream issue because it's default behavior in Openbox.
Yay gray!
*chirping crickets*
LUL who uses Synaptic anymore?
It's not "less feature-rich", it's "leaner".
Not if he wants to leave out task-lxde-desktop. Trust us. Try installing "vanilla" Debian LXDE, select the openbox session from the display manager, and see how much you can get done with Openbox's default minimum settings.

johnraff · 2016-07-05 06:46:30

About bl-welcome and backports:

pvsage wrote:

5. I thought we had patched that.

Yes there was an issue, but it got fixed quite some time ago. Could it be he was installing from an old iso?

#1 2016-07-03 14:38:36

DW Critique Summary

#2 2016-07-03 16:13:16

Re: DW Critique Summary

#3 2016-07-03 16:29:32

Re: DW Critique Summary

#4 2016-07-03 16:41:20

Re: DW Critique Summary

#5 2016-07-03 16:53:59

Re: DW Critique Summary

#6 2016-07-03 17:11:38

Re: DW Critique Summary

#7 2016-07-03 17:13:07

Re: DW Critique Summary

#8 2016-07-03 17:39:23

Re: DW Critique Summary

#9 2016-07-03 18:44:38

Re: DW Critique Summary

#10 2016-07-03 19:21:25

Re: DW Critique Summary

#11 2016-07-04 02:15:03

Re: DW Critique Summary

#12 2016-07-04 19:58:33

Re: DW Critique Summary

#13 2016-07-05 06:46:30

Re: DW Critique Summary

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