IW to FF and ID to TB updates

Sector11 · 2016-06-18 17:43:46

Iceweasel updated to a FireFox ESR 45.2.0

And with that came 'Hello' and 'Pocket' built in and enabled.

OK, so some people want those. I don't and disabled them, it's a matter of personal choice. And for that reason, of the multiple browsers I have been testing here, I've settled on Pale Moon. A post by damo put me on to it. Not happy with the way FireFox is going.

Now Thunderbird wants to replace IceDove. For the moment I have it on hold but I will have to get it. So I'm curious does anyone have any idea what surprises might be in store for that change? If any that is.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-18 17:49:57

The branding change is not directly related to the unwelcome new "features" in FF.

Had the branding remained, the new version of Iceweasel would also have that stupid pocket thingie and signed extensions.

This is because security support for FF/IW version 38 has stopped so Debian has switched to version 45 (ESR), hence the new features.

You should replace IceDove, the new version has many critical security fixes.

Just to note, you can use any of these three commands to fully upgrade to the re-branded versions:

sudo apt upgrade

sudo aptitude upgrade

sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Sector11 · 2016-06-18 18:20:19

^ Thanks HoaS. It figures that somewhere down the road 'Iceweasel' would have had those 'features' as well.
Liking Pale Moon though, maybe it's my imagination but it 'seems' faster to load and uses less resources.

Jumped the gun on Icedove though, although it did update, it's still Icedove not Thunderbird.

 18 Jun 16 @ 15:16:53 ~
  $ list firefox-esr iceweasel icedove thunderbird
Alias for: apt list -a filename
Listing... Done
firefox-esr/stable,now 45.2.0esr-1~deb8u1 amd64 [installed,automatic]

icedove/stable,now 1:45.1.0-1~deb8u1 amd64 [installed]
icedove/stable 38.8.0-1~deb8u1 amd64

iceweasel/stable,stable 38.8.0esr-1~deb8u1 i386

 
 18 Jun 16 @ 15:17:31 ~
  $

damo · 2016-06-18 19:10:21

^ I like Pale Moon because so far it hasn't decided what is "good for me", especially the way the gui is configured.

....and they have no plans to switch to gtk3

Last edited by damo (2016-06-18 19:36:49)

Sector11 · 2016-06-18 20:51:43

Yea well, you pointed me in the right direction. I'm happy.

Pale Moon is something that should be considered as a "Welcome ..." script option. OK, that's an opinion, but those are allowed.

damo · 2016-06-18 21:09:19

Sector11 wrote:

Yea well, you pointed me in the right direction. I'm happy.
Pale Moon is something that should be considered as a "Welcome ..." script option. OK, that's an opinion, but those are allowed.

It isn't a Debian repo package unfortunately, but it maybe could be added to the menu as an Install option. If the development continues like it is, hopefully it will be included in Stable in the future.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-18 21:12:57

damo wrote:

It isn't a Debian repo package unfortunately

It is available from the MX-15 repositories:
http://main.mepis-deb.org/
http://main.mepis-deb.org/MX15packages.html

EDIT: Stevo rocks!

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-06-18 21:16:47)

damo · 2016-06-18 21:24:48

^ and an opensuse repo...

I used the Debian instructions here: https://software.opensuse.org/download. … e=palemoon

Sector11 · 2016-06-18 21:52:50

I used the same as damo - it's where the Pale Moon site pointed to for a Debian install. No issues at all.

I notice the 'Ubuntu' links refer to: xUbuntu {snicker snicker}

Snap · 2016-06-19 06:36:40

Another happy Palemoon switcher here. I don't like the route Mozilla is taking either.

@ S11. Not your imagination. It's faster and uses less resources. Still a resources hog like most browsers, but nicely lighter. Never liked (or got used) to Chrome-ium. Coming from IW/FF, PM is the way to go for me. The only alternative I might consider is qutebrowser. It's really good, but quite a different beast. You need to reconfigure the browsing habits in your head.

I also switched to Fossamail. Not bad. But I'm a bit tired of it all. Considering mutt.

Nili · 2016-06-19 11:28:33

I'm too a Palemoon happy consumer.

Rocky · 2016-06-19 20:48:43

I recall a post from HoaS in the last month or two where he advises only IW (now FF) and Chromium receive security updates / patches from Debian repos

damo · 2016-06-19 21:47:56

Rocky wrote:

I recall a post from HoaS in the last month or two where he advises only IW (now FF) and Chromium receive security updates / patches from Debian repos

But PaleMoon isn't yet available from the Debian repos, so security updates depend on its devs. They claim it may be more secure than FF, and have now gone in a different direction code-wise.

BLOG: This is rumor control, here are the facts.

Pale Moon's focus on security and evolving networking standards has added features and kept pace with those developments in other browsers, by e.g. adding TLS 1.1/1.2 support a while back, by offering OCSP-stapling, by keeping a close eye on encryption and the browser's security by continuing to port or re-implement security fixes that apply to Pale Moon as a browser. It is neither old nor outdated, it is not a "rebuild" and it does not use obsolete technologies or have security holes.

hhh · 2016-06-19 22:08:10

I'm not up to date with Pale Moon, but I would agree that Debian Security updates will always lag behind development updates of an active project (sid works this way, for example).

I use Firefox from mozilla.org and chromium from Debian jessie. There are more secure browsers, but these meet my needs and they have practical addons/extensions.

On FF, I use libflashplayer.so from Adobe, I don't use flashplugin-nonfree.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-20 06:23:25

Rocky wrote:

I recall a post from HoaS in the last month or two where he advises only IW (now FF) and Chromium receive security updates / patches from Debian repos

I was just linking to the official Debian jessie release notes:

Section 5.1.1. Security status of web browsers

Personally, I trust Mozilla more than I trust the Palemoon devs in respect of security updates.

Also, I find that Palemoon is no faster than FF with uBlock Origin running.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-20 06:30:35

hhh wrote:

Debian Security updates will always lag behind development updates of an active project

Actually, Debian Security coverage is pretty much As Good As It Gets.

When using sid, security fixes are pulled directly from upstream and are thus developer-dependent.

In stable, the Security team will apply patches independently and *very* quickly.

However, in the case of the browsers, Debian have basically given up and just ship the upstream packages directly (as Arch does).

From the release notes that I linked above:

Chromium [...] will be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current Chromium releases for stable. Iceweasel and Icedove will also be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current ESR releases for stable.

It should be noted that Debian uses the current (ESR) version of FF and this is the same across all the branches:
https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … ection=all

Horizon_Brave · 2016-06-26 05:28:28

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

hhh wrote:
Debian Security updates will always lag behind development updates of an active project
Actually, Debian Security coverage is pretty much As Good As It Gets.
When using sid, security fixes are pulled directly from upstream and are thus developer-dependent.
In stable, the Security team will apply patches independently and *very* quickly.
However, in the case of the browsers, Debian have basically given up and just ship the upstream packages directly (as Arch does).
From the release notes that I linked above:
Chromium [...] will be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current Chromium releases for stable. Iceweasel and Icedove will also be kept up-to-date by rebuilding the current ESR releases for stable.
It should be noted that Debian uses the current (ESR) version of FF and this is the same across all the branches:
https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … ection=all

Are the two security teams the same bunch of people? Meaning the same people who manage secure sid, are the same ones who manage secure stable?

Also when you say in Sid, the security team pulls directly from upstream, does that mean whatever ther package developer updates (security wise) they take and push out with no questions asked?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-26 13:56:42

Horizon_Brave wrote:

Are the two security teams the same bunch of people? Meaning the same people who manage secure sid, are the same ones who manage secure stable?

There is only one Security Team and they are focused on the stable release; limited support is provided for testing, see https://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing

Also when you say in Sid, the security team pulls directly from upstream, does that mean whatever ther package developer updates (security wise) they take and push out with no questions asked?

The Security Team does not cover sid at all.

See https://www.debian.org/security/faq#unstable

In summary:

security.debian.org wrote:

If you want to have a secure (and stable) server you are strongly encouraged to stay with stable.

#1 2016-06-18 17:43:46

IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#2 2016-06-18 17:49:57

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#3 2016-06-18 18:20:19

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#4 2016-06-18 19:10:21

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#5 2016-06-18 20:51:43

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#6 2016-06-18 21:09:19

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#7 2016-06-18 21:12:57

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#8 2016-06-18 21:24:48

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#9 2016-06-18 21:52:50

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#10 2016-06-19 06:36:40

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#11 2016-06-19 11:28:33

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#12 2016-06-19 20:48:43

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#13 2016-06-19 21:47:56

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#14 2016-06-19 22:08:10

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#15 2016-06-20 06:23:25

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#16 2016-06-20 06:30:35

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#17 2016-06-26 05:28:28

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

#18 2016-06-26 13:56:42

Re: IW to FF and ID to TB updates

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