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#1 2021-08-21 18:34:05

Peregrino69
Member
Registered: 2016-03-11
Posts: 89

Simplifying the default menu structure

Currently there are four different places to adjust system settings and preferences. In the main menu Preferences and System, and under Applications System and Settings.

I think having in the main menu a single "Settings" entry, further divided into something like "System settings" and "Application settings" would be a lot clearer. Also I'd consider renaming Applications / System to "System tools" or "Utilities" - two menu entries with the same name is also somewhat less than extremely user-friendly.

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#2 2021-08-21 18:57:51

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,291

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

Jgmenu, Menu Entry Applications... is the debian menu... Should be left as it is.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#3 2021-08-21 19:25:58

Peregrino69
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Registered: 2016-03-11
Posts: 89

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

... I've yet to see a pure Debian menu with entry "BL-utilities"... wink

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#4 2021-08-22 01:06:31

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,424
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Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

The "Applications" section is an automatically generated menu which shows all apps which put a *.desktop file in /usr/share/applications. This is like the Debian menu (does that still exist?) and many other auto-generated menus - Gnome, LXDE etc.

The rest of the BunsenLabs menu (displayed by jgmenu) is hand-made. It can be changed by users by editing ~/.config/jgmenu/prepend.csv (or Menu > Preferences > jgmenu > Edit Menu Content).

For adjusting settings, we recommend first trying the items we have created, under Menu > Preferences and Menu > System. We put a lot of time and effort into trying to make those submenus as useful as possible.

I agree that it's confusing that the "Applications" submenu also has a lot of settings entries, but as these are auto-generated there's little we can do about it. (The submenu titles there are also generated by jgmenu, not by BL.) Even if we found a way of suppressing those entries, there might be odd occasions when that section holds menu items a user needs. So Menu > Applications > Settings should really be thought of as a fallback when the built-in menu items under Preferences and System aren't enough.

But I quite agree that the menu right now is confusing in that way, and many YouTube first-time reviewers dive straight into Applications > Settings before checking out the more useful submenus below.

Changing our menu layout to Menu > Settings > User and Menu > Settings > System would not be impossible, though some people might prefer to have those items as close to the top level menu as possible, rather than going through another Settings submenu.

Anyway, suggestions for making it clearer that users are recommended to use M. > Pref. and M. > Sys., or any other suggestions for improving the menu layout, would be welcome!

Tweaking prepend.csv isn't difficult so there's still time to get it into Beryllium. smile


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#5 2021-10-16 21:50:45

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,484
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Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

Just drop the Applications menu to the bottom, maybe just above lock screen/exit. Savvy users will know that you can reverse-scroll through the menu (my suggestion, thanks @malm!)

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#6 2021-10-17 07:55:35

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,424
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Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

^Sounds good, easily done, let's do it!

I had a couple of other small suggestions:

*) Rename "BL Utilities" > "Utilities"?
The utilities were made by us, but aren't so BL-specific, in fact, there's some quite useful stuff there:
Screenshots
SSH (if you've put an ssh alias in ~/.ssh/config it will appear here)
Remote Desktop (VNC)
BLOB (Damo's brilliant theme switcher)

*) Add a "Quick Screenshot" item to the top of the Utilities submenu or possibly even to the top-level menu?
You can take a screenshot, do an anonynous upload to Imgur and get the BBC code for pasting right on your clipboard all in one click, which is very nice, but right now you have to go
Menu > BL Utilities > Take Screenshot > Imgur - Upload Screenshot > Anonymous Upload > screenshot Now
which new users might not discover right away. roll
Leaving that "screenshot Now" item untouched, a copy of it as "Quick Screenshot" (or leave the name unchanged) much higher up in the menu tree might be welcome to some users?

*) Rename System > Install Selected Packages?
"Selected" sounds as if the user has selected the packages already in some other interface...
"Install Curated Packages"? Still not brilliant.
"Install Packages"?
"Install Favourite Packages"?

Last edited by johnraff (2021-10-17 08:32:03)


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#7 2021-10-17 10:17:01

rbh
Moderator
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,291

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

johnraff wrote:

I had a couple of other small suggestions:
*) Rename "BL Utilities" > "Utilities"?

No, but not so important.

*) Add a "Quick Screenshot" item to the top of the Utilities submenu or possibly even to the top-level menu?

Yes.

*) Rename System > Install Selected Packages?

"Install Favourite Packages", sounds good.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#8 2021-11-09 10:54:09

a3e6u9
New Member
Registered: 2021-08-04
Posts: 4

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

I don't know what's wrong with the default openbox menu, here is mine:
https://imgur.com/a/AQ7GSbw

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#9 2021-11-09 19:13:24

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,291

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

a3e6u9 wrote:

I don't know what's wrong with the default openbox menu, here is mine:
https://imgur.com/a/AQ7GSbw

It does not looks to be any wrong with your obmenu. But, obmenu is not default menu in Lithium. It is jgmenu.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#10 2021-11-09 22:28:34

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,484
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Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

^ We're not getting enough info. That's obviously obmenu and not jgmenu, why is that? Why isn't obmenu themed, or is it? Also, it's not showing the default OpenBox menu entries. Very sketchy.

Jgmenu should look something like this...

tfCoCjnt.png

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#11 2021-11-10 00:27:36

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,424
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Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

Careful guys, obmenu is the openbox menu editor, not an abbreviation for the default openbox menu.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#12 2021-11-10 01:43:44

hhh
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Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

^ Woops, absolutely right.

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#13 2021-11-10 06:50:52

a3e6u9
New Member
Registered: 2021-08-04
Posts: 4

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

Sorry, I've been misunderstood, I was just asking why not just use the openbox menu instead of jgmenu? Thus my question: what's wrong with the openbox menu? Why replace it? My openbox menu is very customized, but it just shows that you can get a nice, simple menu. I think there is a tool that updates the openbox menu automatically (https://github.com/trizen/obmenu-generator). I don't use it myself, I just edit the menu file.

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#14 2021-11-10 07:37:52

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,730

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

jgmenu is much more sophisticated, with type-to-search for example. There is nothing wrong with the Openbox menu, and both are available for use.

Menu contents and layout are always up for review of course wink

See Tutorials for some jgmenu possibilities


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#15 2021-11-10 08:22:43

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,424
Website

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

damo wrote:

Menu contents and layout are always up for review of course

Which is what this thread is about. smile

But jgmenu isn't probably going away soon, for the reasons that Damo mentioned, and also because some day openbox might have to be replaced (Wayland) and an independent menu will save us a lot of  work then.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#16 2021-11-20 05:24:23

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,484
Website

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

damo wrote:

jgmenu is much more sophisticated, with type-to-search for example...

And auto-updating when new apllications are installed. And automatic GTK or Obenbox theming. jgmenu for life *Don't You Forget About Me by Simple Minds Plays, Bender walks across the football field with his fist in the air*.

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#17 2021-11-25 06:42:31

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,424
Website

Re: Simplifying the default menu structure

I'm adding this suggestion here instead of opening a new topic:
Add a gtk reload command to the lxappearance menu entry, so that if a new gtk theme is chosen it gets applied to the open windows too. Like this, ~ line #56 of ~/.config/jgmenu/prepend.csv:

Appearance,sh -c 'lxappearance; bl-reload-gtk23',preferences-desktop-theme

(bl-reload-gtk23 is a utility we started shipping with Lithium.)
Seems to be working well here and no harm done even if the theme is not changed in lxappearance.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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