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#1 2021-05-25 20:40:21

Colonel Panic
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Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

Hi everyone,

I'm sure this has been discussed here before somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Is there any prospect of including a tiling window manager in the next version of Bunsen? I've noticed that AntiX has one now (HerbstluftWM, configured to work like i3), and Vector used to ship with Awesome as well as XFce.

I still use OpenBox sometimes but I find I'm using tiling managers more now; I get less strain on my wrist from not having to use the mouse as much.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-25 21:40:02)

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#2 2021-05-25 21:41:02

damo
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Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,620

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

It is unlikely, since there are so many tiling WMs, and we would be bound to disappoint. It is also very easy to install whichever one you want.

I have a script for tiling Openbox windows, which needs a lot of work still (multi-monitors, screen orientation, multiple windows etc). It works fine for me on my setup though, and I use it all the time. We are considering putting some work into this so it can be included in BL Beryllium.

Youtube demo
Another demo


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#3 2021-05-25 23:00:05

Colonel Panic
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Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

damo wrote:

It is unlikely, since there are so many tiling WMs, and we would be bound to disappoint. It is also very easy to install whichever one you want.

I think you have a point there. The demos look good too.

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#4 2021-05-25 23:35:53

manyroads
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From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
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Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

FWIW, IMHO Many tiling managers are more popular on an arch base due to the long release cycles on Debian.  dwm is a pretty obvious exception but bspwm, i3wm (both variants) and others generally prefer more current software.


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#5 2021-05-26 00:10:47

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

awesomewm works great on Debian, has good documentation and HowTo's, has it's own panel, and does both tiling and floating and a combination. Fairly easy for tiling, stand-alone WM nOObs, too, a good place to start.

https://packages.debian.org/buster/awesome

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Awesome

https://wiki.debian.org/Awesome

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#6 2021-05-26 00:30:23

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,003
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Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

The BL setup is easy to tweak to use other WMs.
I did a quick check with awesome some time ago and it seemed to work OK.
Just edit ~/.config/bunsen/autostart (see the comments in that file).


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#7 2021-05-26 00:59:39

phuturism
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From: Melbourne
Registered: 2016-07-15
Posts: 178

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

manyroads wrote:

FWIW, IMHO Many tiling managers are more popular on an arch base due to the long release cycles on Debian.  dwm is a pretty obvious exception but bspwm, i3wm (both variants) and others generally prefer more current software.

Yes, this is one of the reasons I jumped from BL to Archlabs - the arch version of BL.  I run bspwm.

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#8 2021-05-26 01:08:38

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,816
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Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

phuturism wrote:
manyroads wrote:

FWIW, IMHO Many tiling managers are more popular on an arch base due to the long release cycles on Debian.  dwm is a pretty obvious exception but bspwm, i3wm (both variants) and others generally prefer more current software.

Yes, this is one of the reasons I jumped from BL to Archlabs - the arch version of BL.  I run bspwm.

I don't get it. Maybe for Buster at this point, but the Bullseye (in freeze for months now, stable like a rock) version of bspwm in Debian is ahead of the Aur, 0.9.10-2 over 0.9.10-1, and the aur-git is only at bspwm-git 0.9.9.r3.gdf7c6cc-1.

I mean, I'll compile the git version if it's that much more feature-rich, I'm not switching operating systems over a window manager.

Of course, I'm not knocking you for using ArchLabs, BunsenLabs inspired and fully embraces that project!

https://archlabslinux.com/

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#9 2021-05-26 10:47:51

Colonel Panic
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Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

hhh wrote:

awesomewm works great on Debian, has good documentation and HowTo's, has it's own panel, and does both tiling and floating and a combination. Fairly easy for tiling, stand-alone WM nOObs, too, a good place to start.

https://packages.debian.org/buster/awesome

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Awesome

https://wiki.debian.org/Awesome

Thanks and to everyone else who's replied.

Yes, I know awesome has a following and it was supplied with Vector along with XFce, but when I tried it I found it too complicated to set up compared to the alternatives such as dwm (where all you have to do is change one setting in the configuration file), and icewm.

Some more thoughts on my admittedly brief experience with tiling managers so far;

I think spectrwm's also worth a look. It has the "master-stack" window setup by default, like dwm, but unlike dwm can update itself on the fly when the configuration file is changed so that you don't have to reinstall it every time you want to change something. The one downside I've discovered with it is that it lacks an easy way of showing and changing between the workspaces in the status bar which are currently in use.

I've also tried herbstluftwm, but I find that for me it only works well in AntiX (whose devs set it up and configured it ready to go); all I've managed to get from it when I've had a go with it on my own has been a blank screen.

It looks to me at the moment that the ones I'll end up choosing / rotating between are dwm, i3 and spectrwm.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-26 11:02:35)

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#10 2021-05-26 11:35:00

twoion
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Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,209

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

Colonel Panic wrote:

It looks to me at the moment that the ones I'll end up choosing / rotating between are dwm, i3 and spectrwm.


IMO i3 is the most approachable and most used of the bunch. I was a long time user of dwm, but I ran my own version with custom self-written patches. I also ran awesomewm (with custom extensions as well) for some time in 2011/2012 and while I find its concept superior to i3 (configuration via embedded Lua), it's more a framework like fvwm and offers insane flexibility in return for non-deterministic configuration -- aka there's always more than 1 way of doing something. Which, in order to get things done, is too much for me these days.

If you want a true tiler, I think you should use i3. Personally, kwin's tiling support is enough for me these days.


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#11 2021-05-26 18:36:44

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 532
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Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

twoion wrote:

If you want a true tiler, I think you should use i3. Personally, kwin's tiling support is enough for me these days.

I use BL + i3 on my secondary computer, a Lenovo x230. I don't remember having to do anything special to make it work. I installed it right off Debian's repository.

I find i3 works better for me than OpenBox on that screen size. On my primary computer's 24 inch screen it is the other way around.

/Martin


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prove their worth by hitting back."
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#12 2021-05-27 01:02:27

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,816
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Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

twoion wrote:

Personally, kwin's tiling support is enough for me these days.

As is Cinnamon's for me. Heck, the BunsenLabs OpenBox tiling defaults are enough for me.

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#13 2021-05-27 01:56:05

phuturism
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From: Melbourne
Registered: 2016-07-15
Posts: 178

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

hhh wrote:
phuturism wrote:
manyroads wrote:

FWIW, IMHO Many tiling managers are more popular on an arch base due to the long release cycles on Debian.  dwm is a pretty obvious exception but bspwm, i3wm (both variants) and others generally prefer more current software.

Yes, this is one of the reasons I jumped from BL to Archlabs - the arch version of BL.  I run bspwm.

I don't get it. Maybe for Buster at this point, but the Bullseye (in freeze for months now, stable like a rock) version of bspwm in Debian is ahead of the Aur, 0.9.10-2 over 0.9.10-1, and the aur-git is only at bspwm-git 0.9.9.r3.gdf7c6cc-1.

I mean, I'll compile the git version if it's that much more feature-rich, I'm not switching operating systems over a window manager.

Of course, I'm not knocking you for using ArchLabs, BunsenLabs inspired and fully embraces that project!

https://archlabslinux.com/

No worries @hhh, I miss some things about Debian and BL in particular but there were other reasons for going to Arch, and Archlabs was the best of both worlds!  There were a lot of packages available on the AUR that weren't available in the Debian repositories, for example.

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#14 2021-05-27 06:02:00

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,482

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

Colonel Panic wrote:

I'm using tiling managers more now; I get less strain on my wrist from not having to use the mouse as much.

Openbox is completely manageable by keyboard only and has the best manual tiling capabilities of any non-tiler I know of.
A simple 2x2 grid is easily set up with a few keybinds, I really recommend looking into it.
Of course it isn't the same as a full tiling WM, but the mouse argument is not valid.


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#15 2021-05-27 11:32:11

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,413

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

Twoion wrote:

IMO i3 is the most approachable and most used of the bunch.

If the project were to make the change, i3 would probably be the best route to take. Well documented and easy to use. And once Debian switches over to Wayland, it would be near-seamless to switch over to sway window manager.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
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#16 2021-05-27 16:06:54

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

ohnonot wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:

I'm using tiling managers more now; I get less strain on my wrist from not having to use the mouse as much.

Openbox is completely manageable by keyboard only and has the best manual tiling capabilities of any non-tiler I know of.
A simple 2x2 grid is easily set up with a few keybinds, I really recommend looking into it.
Of course it isn't the same as a full tiling WM, but the mouse argument is not valid.

I feel I've noticed a change for the better since I've switched to (mostly) using tiling window managers, since I am no longer having to use the mouse to drag windows around and am able to do other things from the keyboard, such as moving the focus between windows by using the Mod and vim (h,j,k etc.) keys.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-27 17:39:59)

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#17 2021-05-27 16:10:15

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

twoion wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:

It looks to me at the moment that the ones I'll end up choosing / rotating between are dwm, i3 and spectrwm.


IMO i3 is the most approachable and most used of the bunch. I was a long time user of dwm, but I ran my own version with custom self-written patches. I also ran awesomewm (with custom extensions as well) for some time in 2011/2012 and while I find its concept superior to i3 (configuration via embedded Lua), it's more a framework like fvwm and offers insane flexibility in return for non-deterministic configuration -- aka there's always more than 1 way of doing something. Which, in order to get things done, is too much for me these days.

If you want a true tiler, I think you should use i3. Personally, kwin's tiling support is enough for me these days.

(And others such as twoion, Martin and Packrat who have mentioned i3). True, i3 is very good but I find I prefer the way dwm sets up windows by default (master / stack or major / minor, call it what you will) to i3's, which by default sets them all out horizontally without any particular one having precedence over the others.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-27 16:11:56)

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#18 2021-05-27 17:16:58

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,413

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

i3's, which by default sets them all out horizontally without any particular one having precedence over the others.

That's easy to change; my i3 default is for tabbed windows. I can create a container if I want the master-stack layout of dwm.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
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#19 2021-05-27 17:42:05

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

PackRat wrote:

i3's, which by default sets them all out horizontally without any particular one having precedence over the others.

That's easy to change; my i3 default is for tabbed windows. I can create a container if I want the master-stack layout of dwm.

Thanks for replying, though my knowledge of tiling WMs is rudimentary so I don't think I'd call it "easy". Maybe I'll look into it later on.

I like i3-gaps, which is straightforward to set up in Arch.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-27 18:13:00)

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#20 2021-05-30 15:25:18

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 532
Website

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

Colonel Panic wrote:

(And others such as twoion, Martin and Packrat who have mentioned i3). True, i3 is very good but I find I prefer the way dwm sets up windows by default (master / stack or major / minor, call it what you will) to i3's, which by default sets them all out horizontally without any particular one having precedence over the others.

Maybe I should take a look at dwm again. It is many, many years since last time. I remember liking it but also finding it annoyingly keen on 'colliding' with the programs I was using. The suckless crowd was aware of this and blamed everyone else.

Anyways, I mostly like what they do and one of the reasons for me 'falling for' crunch bang Linux was it including dmenu as a default.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#21 2021-05-30 15:33:01

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

"I remember liking it but also finding it annoyingly keen on 'colliding' with the programs I was using."

Again thanks for replying. It's early days for me but I've found the same thing with dwm; I had problems running Softmaker Office under it. It's not just dwm as I also couldn't run Office under jwm.

I also like dmenu and usually install it in distros that don't include it by default.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-30 15:34:12)

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#22 2021-05-30 20:13:09

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 532
Website

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

i3 plays nicely with most programs including office programs such as LibreOffice and gnumeric. I have not tested with Softmaker Office.

I think that is the main attraction of i3, it stays sane pretty much all the time.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#23 2021-05-31 07:30:35

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

Martin wrote:

i3 plays nicely with most programs including office programs such as LibreOffice and gnumeric. I have not tested with Softmaker Office.

I think that is the main attraction of i3, it stays sane pretty much all the time.

/Martin

Yes it does; it's also got a good status bar with a lot of information.

I'm in spectrwm at the moment and running Planmaker in it is no problem and it also has a master - stack window setup by default. The only problem I've found with it in its default configuration is that the status bar isn't very informative (and the text in it is also very small), but I daresay that is fixable if I knew more about it.

[EDIT: I've just downloaded the writer Anthony Campbell's spectrwm configuration and, whilst it isn't exactly what I'd want, it is a big improvement on the default config. I'll try and post it in the spectrwm thread later on.]

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-05-31 13:24:21)

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#24 2021-06-01 13:00:42

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

PackRat wrote:

i3's, which by default sets them all out horizontally without any particular one having precedence over the others.

That's easy to change; my i3 default is for tabbed windows. I can create a container if I want the master-stack layout of dwm.

Michal Goral has created a version of i3 which has the master - stack window configuration already set up, here;

https://git.goral.net.pl/mgoral/i3a

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#25 2021-06-08 17:51:47

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 283

Re: Tiling window managers in Bunsen by default

I'm trying wmii at the moment. Wikipedia claims that i3 is based on it, but from what I can see wmii isn't inferior to i3; it just has a different design model (windows are stacked by default with their title bars showing, for example, instead of being arranged side by side).

The text in the status bar is a bit small although it displays a good assortment of information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager

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