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#1 2021-01-29 15:08:01

joakes
New Member
Registered: 2017-05-25
Posts: 3

Hi Def for Lithium

1st time poster, been using BL since Hydrogen & love it. But, very disappointed that there is no Hi Def available for Lithium. I'd hate to have to go back to the bloated Elementary - the only other distro the has such an elegant DE/WM. I'd stay with Hydro, but many things are no longer playing nice with it (read, chrome & MS Office) & Helium has always had trouble with (actually the other way around) Thunar.

Any plans on eventually getting to the Hi Def desktop?

Thanks.

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#2 2021-01-29 18:34:05

linux_user
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

Can you explain what do you mean by hi-def desktop?


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#3 2021-01-29 20:30:13

DeepDayze
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From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

linux_user wrote:

Can you explain what do you mean by hi-def desktop?

Think he means getting BL to work with a Hi-DPI display.


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#4 2021-01-29 20:40:26

linux_user
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

I see... I wonder why would Lithium not work well with high dpi displays?

@joakes, What is the DPI of your display and what difference do you perceive with Lithium in it?

Last edited by linux_user (2021-01-29 20:45:50)


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#5 2021-01-29 23:23:20

johnraff
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

There is a Beam-HiDPI theme available - it was contributed by a forum member - but we never made a Lithium version. Maybe you could look at the differences between Beam-HiDPI and Beam and see what hacks would need to be done on the regular BL-Lithium theme?

Anyway with high-dpi displays increasing it's probably something we should think about for Beryllium.


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#6 2021-01-29 23:31:15

linux_user
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

In Windows, I had noticed that there is a thing called scale. The default value is 1 and increasing the value increases the size of the text, icons and spaces in order to make things appear a little larger in HiDPI screens. The downside of scale is that it impacts the screen resolution too: if you were to check the screen resolution using some website, it would should an adjusted value.

Is there any such trick available in Linux so that increasing the texts, spacing and icons can apply universally to all windows, and perhaps not technically changing the resolution?


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#7 2021-01-30 00:12:20

DeepDayze
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From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

johnraff wrote:

There is a Beam-HiDPI theme available - it was contributed by a forum member - but we never made a Lithium version. Maybe you could look at the differences between Beam-HiDPI and Beam and see what hacks would need to be done on the regular BL-Lithium theme?

Anyway with high-dpi displays increasing it's probably something we should think about for Beryllium.

A very good idea as a High DPI display is in my future too. If any members have one they can take a look at the theme to see what changes needed to be made to the Lithium theme to support Hi-DPI.


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#8 2021-01-30 14:43:20

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

johnraff wrote:

There is a Beam-HiDPI theme available - it was contributed by a forum member - but we never made a Lithium version. Maybe you could look at the differences between Beam-HiDPI and Beam and see what hacks would need to be done on the regular BL-Lithium theme?

AFAIR, all it had was larger icons, but even that shouldn't be necessary if you use the built-in default, I think.
Possibly doubled border widths, but that's about all.

All the rest should automatically adjust through DPI and font settings.

Except tint2. That's a bigger challenge, because it's measuring just about everything in pixels.


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#9 2021-01-31 02:21:45

johnraff
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

^There was more to it than just resized icons, as you can see by running something like meld on the two directories. (Of course diff will do recursive directory comparisons too, but in cases like this meld is very quick and easy.)

User @vinzv saw a need 3 years ago, so I'm not so sure that everything will "automatically adjust".

But graphics is out of my zone, so I won't comment further.


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#10 2021-02-01 06:39:52

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

johnraff wrote:

There was more to it than just resized icons, as you can see by running something like meld on the two directories.

I just did a manual comparison of the two themerc's - there's no relevant differences at all.
The HiDPI theme just seems to be based on an older version of Beam.

So it's really just the icons.

But most Openbox elements resize themselves according to font size, so if the font sizes are right (DPI!) the theme should adapt.

Anyhow, tint2 poses a bigger problem here.


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#11 2021-02-01 07:34:12

johnraff
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

^It's not just an openbox theme - there are some significant differences in the GTK files too.

But I didn't know OB would adjust pixel dimensions according to dpi.

Anyway, I'm not planning to dive into this - we have other people much more knowlegable on graphics stuff around here.


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#12 2021-02-01 08:54:11

brontosaurusrex
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

tint2 seems to be fixed by using 'scale_relative_to_dpi'
https://github.com/o9000/tint2/search?q … ive_to_dpi
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3989

Is that not working as expected?

I don't have hidpi monitor, so can't really test stuff, but I imagine (since there is good chance icons are svg and fonts are vectorial in nature anyhow) the 'problems' could be clearly presented by someone with such monitor and some openbox experience with a few screenshots.

So a little doc with the title 'What we have that looks wrong on hidpi stuff' would be a magic start.

edit: Quick tint2 scrot
WrZxU8g.png

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2021-02-01 11:25:11)

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#13 2021-03-30 15:23:29

joakes
New Member
Registered: 2017-05-25
Posts: 3

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

@linux_user - sorry been using mac for a while, even though I love BL and would love to return. My display can go up to 2560X1600 and looked phenomenal with helium. Lithium on the other hand, only works well up to 1920X1200 and this is a deal breaker for me.

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#14 2021-03-30 16:54:26

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 79

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

LightDM slick-greeter supports HiDPI, scaling automatically.

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#15 2021-03-31 04:19:24

johnraff
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

brontosaurusrex wrote:

Forgive my dullness, but does this mean that
scale_relative_to_dpi = 96
would be a reasonable default value, and screens found to have a higher dpi will result in adjusted tint2 dimensions?


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#16 2021-03-31 12:31:26

brontosaurusrex
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

^I'am guessing that computed dpi may be wrong, so the default should be commented out line (as it is now).

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#17 2021-04-01 07:14:55

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,436
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

brontosaurusrex wrote:

^I'am guessing that computed dpi may be wrong, so the default should be commented out line (as it is now).

What our tint2 files have atm is

scale_relative_to_dpi = 0

(not commented out)
Man tint2 says this will disable scaling. Shouldn't we enable it OOTB?


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#18 2021-04-01 07:48:29

brontosaurusrex
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

I think that's the same as disabled, so fine. But developer could provide the exact info. Maybe worth reading
https://gitlab.com/o9000/tint2/-/issues/656

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#19 2021-04-01 08:41:22

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,436
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

^That was interesting, though far from convincing either way.

Early on:

o9000 wrote:

Should scaling be enabled by default?
I'm inclined to say yes.

But later it gets much more complicated, with new parameter scale_relative_to_screen_height and other posters getting totally tangled up...

But my question here is: is there some default scaling setting (I thought scale_relative_to_dpi = 96) that would at least sort-of work for users out of the box, or are all users expected to configure this for themselves? Or is no scaling at all the best default setting?


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#20 2021-04-01 17:46:47

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

^ I think the problem is that barebones Xorg systems don't automagically recognize the correct DPI at all.
No idea where the default value of 96 comes from, but I made the effort to measure & calculate what it really is for my monitor - it's 99. And when applied, it makes a big difference wrt e.g. font rendering.


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#21 2021-04-01 19:20:22

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 79

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

ohnonot wrote:

^ I think the problem is that barebones Xorg systems don't automagically recognize the correct DPI at all.
No idea where the default value of 96 comes from, but I made the effort to measure & calculate what it really is for my monitor - it's 99. And when applied, it makes a big difference wrt e.g. font rendering.

The 96 DPI comes from the Xorg devs deciding to make Linux bug compatible with Windows and even though MS fixed the bug in Windows with the release of Windows 7 Xorg says NOTABUG and WONTFIX.

Their attitude is the fix is Wayland.

One of the many bug reports:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705

Previous to this xserver would automatically set the display DPI correctly.

Last edited by jeffreyC (2021-04-01 19:25:34)

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#22 2021-04-05 06:17:25

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,436
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Re: Hi Def for Lithium

@jeffryC thanks for the link.
@ohnonot a change from 96 to 99 seems rather small to make a "big difference" to font rendering?
And:

Arch Wiki wrote:

While you can set any dpi you like and applications using Qt and GTK will scale accordingly, it's recommended to set it to 96, 120 (25% higher), 144 (50% higher), 168 (75% higher), 192 (100% higher) etc., to reduce scaling artifacts to GUI that use bitmaps. Reducing it below 96 dpi may not reduce size of graphical elements of GUI as typically the lowest dpi the icons are made for is 96.

My own display's real dpi is 90, and I've tried adding this to my autostart file:

xrandr --fbmm "$(xrandr | sed -n '/ connected / {s/.* \([0-9]\+\)mm x \([0-9]\+\)mm/\1x\2/p;q}')"

But the results - if any - won't be seen till I've finished reading the other forum posts and logged out.

EDIT: results were undetectable to my eyes.

Last edited by johnraff (2021-07-08 05:09:13)


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#23 2021-04-12 13:10:46

joakes
New Member
Registered: 2017-05-25
Posts: 3

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

Back to my initial problem, this is not an issue of font rendering, nor tint2 issues. Nor do I think there's a scaling issue. Maybe my NVidia GForce 210 drivers need updating - they didn't need tweaking in Hydro or Helium, and I doubt NVidia has made any updates to these in the past two years.

My 30" Apple Cinema display works great with every other distro I've tried, incld'g plain old debian buster w/ an XFCE DM. Yet my 24" Apple works great with Hydro, Helium & Lithium.

So as a work around, can someone help me? I'd like to download the 64bit AMD Helium ISO so I can drop back for the time being. I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thx in advance.

Absolutely love BL, but am quite frustrated with Lithium at the moment.

an update: I found an ISO torrent for helium 64bit. Anybody out there not recommending upgrading helium to buster (per this topic: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=5007)? thx again for your patience with a non-bit-twiddler.

Last edited by joakes (2021-04-12 17:10:21)

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#24 2021-04-14 18:04:28

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: Hi Def for Lithium

joakes wrote:

Back to my initial problem

I don't mean to be facetious, but what was that?

joakes wrote:

my NVidia GForce 210 drivers

Have we established yet what drivers are in use on the problematic (?) system?


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