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#1 2021-02-23 10:31:16

drtrppr
Member
Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

After the install of BL Synaptic mentions 4 repositories, the 'pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian' and ' deb.debian.org/debian-security' active (if I didn't make changes of which I'm not aware anymore).

In order to install Mirage, the advice was to add the Debian repository. After the install I deactivated this repository.

When updating the active repositories, I can upgrade bunsen-pipemenus and bunsen-utilities. Upgrading gives error messages.

When activating the Debian-repositorie, Synaptic seems to be able to upgrade the bunsen-packages.

However, apart from the packages needed to upgrade the bunsen-packages, there are a lot more packages to be upgraded.

Experiences with some other small distros was not to upgrade packages of the main distro, because the packages in the small distros were custom-made and replaced the ones of the main distro, or weren't needed etc. 

The question is if these Debian-packages have to be upgraded too or does this wreck BL?

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#2 2021-02-23 10:40:54

Nick
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Registered: 2020-09-05
Posts: 49

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Keep the Debian repository active because that's from where the majority of your packages will be available and will receive security updates.

Periodically, BunsenLabs will inherit point release upgrades from Debian in which more than a couple packages may be upgraded.

This distribution is built on top of and along side of Debian - you need to keep the Debian repository active. BL is designed specifically not to conflict with normal Debian package upgrades. I hope that helps, maybe someone with clearer information can contribute.

Last edited by Nick (2021-02-23 10:42:31)

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#3 2021-02-23 14:18:21

drtrppr
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Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Nick wrote:

Keep the Debian repository active because that's from where the majority of your packages will be available and will receive security updates.

The debian-security repository is by default activated in Synaptic and I will always keep that one activated. So I hope there is no need to keep the Debian repository with all packages active from that point of view.

Nick wrote:

Periodically, BunsenLabs will inherit point release upgrades from Debian in which more than a couple packages may be upgraded.

If I keep the Debian-repository active, always keep my install up-to-date according to this repository, in that case, what's a BL-update about? I guess it's the part in which BL is different from Debian, and that's where I'm cautious about. 

Nick wrote:

This distribution is built on top of and along side of Debian - you need to keep the Debian repository active.

Maybe I have missed something with the install procedure, but can't remember that I was urged to make the Debian-repository known to the install. Same it puzzled me that in that case the repository wasn't default available. But again, maybe it's my misunderstanding.

Nick wrote:

BL is designed specifically not to conflict with normal Debian package upgrades. I hope that helps, maybe someone with clearer information can contribute.

Yep, think there is some more to this, according to my experiences with other distros, most times there's a deeper ground how things are (not) done.

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#4 2021-02-24 02:15:06

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

BunsenLabs provide a small number of packages - these are configurations and utilities intended to work with a standard Debian Stable install. All the Debian Buster repositories should be enabled - not just debian-security - because sometimes important bugfixes will arrive by that route, and they will be essential to install any of the thousands of packages Debian make available which aren't in the default BunsenLabs install.

@drtrppr, it's very strange that the Debian repositories are not enabled on your system. Could you post the output of this command?

cat /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install

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#5 2021-02-24 10:14:39

drtrppr
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Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Ok, all makes sense to me if the link to Debian-repositories have to be present.

drtrppr@HPStream:~$ cat /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install
Install method: iso
Version: lithium-RC5-amd64
Disk info: Debian GNU/Linux 10 _Lithium_ - Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20200722-09:44
Install date: 2021-02-18T11:54:15

But as said before, I can't guarantee that I didn't delete the link to the repository by accident after my first glance at BL.

I'm planning to install on another old machine, I will download the newest ISO and will check if link to debian-repository is present. Guess it will.

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#6 2021-02-24 11:06:19

sleekmason
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From: Ozarks
Registered: 2018-05-22
Posts: 578
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

I'm going for "unchecking" the entries during the install:) The lines in /etc/sources.list will still be present, but commented. Sounds like you have a plan!

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#7 2021-02-26 23:07:22

drtrppr
Member
Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

sleekmason wrote:

I'm going for "unchecking" the entries during the install:) The lines in /etc/sources.list will still be present, but commented.

This is what '/etc/apt/sources.list' lookes like:

 

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10 _Lithium_ - Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20200722-09:44]/ buster contrib main non-free 

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 10 _Lithium_ - Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20200722-09:44]/ buster contrib main non-free 

## Debian security updates
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ buster/updates non-free contrib main 

# This system was installed using small removable media
# (e.g. netinst, live or single CD). The matching "deb cdrom"
# entries were disabled at the end of the installation process.
# For information about how to configure apt package sources,
# see the sources.list(5) manual.

No debian main repository, but also the bunsen-repository isn't mentioned?

Downloaded new iso, tried to install on another machine, but it failed, so can't check what happens with repositories-entries during install process.

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#8 2021-02-26 23:18:47

sleekmason
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From: Ozarks
Registered: 2018-05-22
Posts: 578
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Yikes.  Wondered.

So, you need:

deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free

(looks like you have the security line then).

and:

deb https://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian lithium main

per here: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6913

The line for backports is there as well.

Dont forget to:

sudo apt update

And here are all of the Bunsenlab repositories for reference, with info on the signing key if needed:
https://www.bunsenlabs.org/repositories.html

Last edited by sleekmason (2021-02-26 23:39:16)

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#9 2021-03-01 03:32:34

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Canonical BunsenLabs sources lists here: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6915


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#10 2021-03-01 04:16:51

sleekmason
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From: Ozarks
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Posts: 578
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

johnraff wrote:

Canonical BunsenLabs sources lists here: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6915

Bookmarked! Thanks:)

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#11 2021-03-02 10:14:47

drtrppr
Member
Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Okay, I somewhere got lost smile

Downloaded a new ISO and dd it to USB-stick. Did a live run, and there are four repositories available: pkg.bunsenlabs debian-buster, debian-security-buster-updates, debian-buster-updates.

(As a test tried to install 'mirage', and did get an error:  Debian-repository changed version value from 10.7 to 10.8).

I did a graphical install on my machine, now was aware what went 'wrong' with first install. The machine doesn't have an internet-connection during the install, and at some point this gives 'trouble' when configuring the repositories. You will have to choose for a minimal Debian-install with packages taken of the cd-rom(USB-stick). After the install, there are two repositories available, the pkg-bunsenlabs and the debian-buster-security-update (and two inactive cdrom-repositories).

So the debian-buster and debian-buster-updates are not available, and that's why I intended to think these repositories are not needed/essential, and when making them available, it's not needed to upgrade those packages.

Because of not reading the mentioned sticky post in the first place, this got me 'confused'.

But in the end, why aren't the repositories not available after the install like they are when using BL live?

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#12 2021-03-02 16:07:36

dolly
Miss Mixunderstand
From: /lab701
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 426

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

@johnraff, sleekmason; thanks for an interesting discussion. It is of general interest and deserves a thread of it ´s own so it does not end up buried and easily forgotten here.


A bit nerdy, trying to grow up.

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#13 2021-03-02 23:34:58

sleekmason
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From: Ozarks
Registered: 2018-05-22
Posts: 578
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

drtrppr wrote:

Okay, I somewhere got lost smile

Downloaded a new ISO and dd it to USB-stick. Did a live run, and there are four repositories available: pkg.bunsenlabs debian-buster, debian-security-buster-updates, debian-buster-updates.

(As a test tried to install 'mirage', and did get an error:  Debian-repository changed version value from 10.7 to 10.8).

I did a graphical install on my machine, now was aware what went 'wrong' with first install. The machine doesn't have an internet-connection during the install, and at some point this gives 'trouble' when configuring the repositories. You will have to choose for a minimal Debian-install with packages taken of the cd-rom(USB-stick). After the install, there are two repositories available, the pkg-bunsenlabs and the debian-buster-security-update (and two inactive cdrom-repositories).

So the debian-buster and debian-buster-updates are not available, and that's why I intended to think these repositories are not needed/essential, and when making them available, it's not needed to upgrade those packages.

Because of not reading the mentioned sticky post in the first place, this got me 'confused'.

But in the end, why aren't the repositories not available after the install like they are when using BL live?

Pretty sure you must be connected to the internet for a clean BL install. 

I'm not sure you would get the relevant lines without being connected to the internet.  During the installer process, the package manager needs to update the repos and add the lines.

Can you not obtain a connection during the install?  I would think you could possibly add the lines after install.  More of a question for the BL devs to be sure.

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#14 2021-03-02 23:40:33

sleekmason
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From: Ozarks
Registered: 2018-05-22
Posts: 578
Website

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

dolly wrote:

@johnraff, sleekmason; thanks for an interesting discussion. It is of general interest and deserves a thread of it ´s own so it does not end up buried and easily forgotten here.

Well thank you!  I suppose this is really a continuation of https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6979

No worries on my end if it should be moved.)

Last edited by sleekmason (2021-03-02 23:46:02)

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#15 2021-03-03 00:27:34

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
Website

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

@dolly and @sleekmason, yes let's split off the live-build/debian-installer discussion and add it to the thread sleekmason started earlier. That way this thread can return to @drtrppr's issue. smile

Just let me finish reading the new posts, then I'll do it...


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#16 2021-03-03 00:37:21

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
Website

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

drtrppr wrote:

The machine doesn't have an internet-connection during the install, and at some point this gives 'trouble' when configuring the repositories...

...But in the end, why aren't the repositories not available after the install like they are when using BL live?

This is an issue with the Debian Installer itself, that it doesn't set up the repositories properly if installation is done without a net connection. The topic has come up on Debian mailing lists, and a fix might arrive one day. Meanwhile, maybe the BL welcome script could check for missing repos and offer to add them? Something to think about for Beryllium...

The BL live session (or any other live session) is a self-contained system with all the apt configuration built in, so the installer doesn't come into the picture. You would think, then, that since the BL installer just copies in the live system, the installed system should have all the apt repos too, but setting up apt is one aspect of the install that the D-I handles, even with "live" installs. Fair enough, I think.


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#17 2021-03-03 00:45:25

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,205

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

johnraff wrote:
drtrppr wrote:

The machine doesn't have an internet-connection during the install, and at some point this gives 'trouble' when configuring the repositories...

...But in the end, why aren't the repositories not available after the install like they are when using BL live?

This is an issue with the Debian Installer itself, that it doesn't set up the repositories properly if installation is done without a net connection. The topic has come up on Debian mailing lists, and a fix might arrive one day. Meanwhile, maybe the BL welcome script could check for missing repos and offer to add them? Something to think about for Beryllium...

The BL live session (or any other live session) is a self-contained system with all the apt configuration built in, so the installer doesn't come into the picture. You would think, then, that since the BL installer just copies in the live system, the installed system should have all the apt repos too, but setting up apt is one aspect of the install that the D-I handles, even with "live" installs. Fair enough, I think.

Or why not check for a proper apt sources.list and if one is not populated due to a situation like no internet connection it can be set up via post-install cleanup/verification?

Sometimes there should be workarounds for bugs in the installer.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2021-03-03 00:46:33)


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#18 2021-03-03 01:54:19

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
Website

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

johnraff wrote:

@dolly and @sleekmason, yes let's split off the live-build/debian-installer discussion and add it to the thread sleekmason started earlier. That way this thread can return to @drtrppr's issue. smile

Just let me finish reading the new posts, then I'll do it...

Live-build and debian-installer discussion moved, starting here: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 20#p111720


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#19 2021-03-03 01:56:29

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
Website

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

DeepDayze wrote:
johnraff wrote:
drtrppr wrote:

The machine doesn't have an internet-connection during the install, and at some point this gives 'trouble' when configuring the repositories...

...But in the end, why aren't the repositories not available after the install like they are when using BL live?

This is an issue with the Debian Installer itself, that it doesn't set up the repositories properly if installation is done without a net connection.
...
Meanwhile, maybe the BL welcome script could check for missing repos and offer to add them? Something to think about for Beryllium...

Or why not check for a proper apt sources.list and if one is not populated due to a situation like no internet connection it can be set up via post-install cleanup/verification?
Sometimes there should be workarounds for bugs in the installer.

Yes, that's what I meant about adding a check to bl-welcome. smile


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
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Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#20 2021-03-03 04:29:55

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,495
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Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

sleekmason wrote:

Pretty sure you must be connected to the internet for a clean BL install.

Correct. However, you can skip configuring the network during the installation and fix your sources immediately after first login (after connecting to the Internet after copying a needed WiFi driver from another partition and rebooting, for example), then run 'sudo apt update' or continue run bl-welcome and you should be good.

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#21 2021-03-03 11:02:20

drtrppr
Member
Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

sleekmason wrote:

Pretty sure you must be connected to the internet for a clean BL install.

I think it's not like a 'must', it's more like a 'should', BL installs fine without an internet-connection, that's not what's my 'wondering' is about.

sleekmason wrote:

During the installer process, the package manager needs to update the repos.

Don't think it is needed to update the repos/packages during the install in the sense BL won't run, will be unstable or whatever. The install without internet 'just' gives you a running stable BL which is a bit outdated (depending on the ISO you use). When you get the internet-connection going, updating repos/packages is a daily routine.

sleekmason wrote:

Can you not obtain a connection during the install?

No, BL doesn't support my internal wifi-chipset by default. I'm using an external WIFI USB-adapter which chipset is supported by BL. During the install, the USB-adapter isn't recognized or whatever, after retracting and putting it back in, a wifi connection is established. Works for me, isn't a problem.   

sleekmason wrote:

I would think you could possibly add the lines after install.

Yep, that's what you have to do, no big deal.

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#22 2021-03-03 11:21:02

drtrppr
Member
Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

johnraff wrote:

This is an issue with the Debian Installer itself, that it doesn't set up the repositories properly if installation is done without a net connection. The topic has come up on Debian mailing lists, and a fix might arrive one day.

Aha.

johnraff wrote:

You would think, then, that since the BL installer just copies in the live system, the installed system should have all the apt repos too

Sort of, yes. But I'm not sure we're talking about the exact same thing. When I see the entry 'https://deb.debian.org/debian-security/' in Synaptic-repositories, which is there by default, why can't there be an extra line like 'https://deb.debian.org/debian/' (guess that's what you're trying to say that that isn't that obvious smile )?

johnraff wrote:

Meanwhile, maybe the BL welcome script could check for missing repos and offer to add them? Something to think about for Beryllium...

Yes, but don't think a lot of people will have that 'problem'. Most of people will have an internet connection. My question arose from the fact having used other distros who explicitly stated not to use (some) packages of certain repositories.

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#23 2021-03-03 11:42:23

drtrppr
Member
Registered: 2021-02-20
Posts: 16

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

Apart from the technical solutions, there's a documentation thingy, I think.

Soon after installing BL I tried to install ' Mirage' , and that was my second post on the forum, why didn't it install? Because of the missing repository.

I did read the 'Repositories' section on the BL-website in advance, and in my humble opinion it only mentions the bl-repositories, so I was more confident to just use these repositories, and not the debian ones.

Later on in this thread there is the reference to the sticky post 'Lithium sources.list and backports details'. I've seen that title, but didn't read it because I thought it was about BL-sources, and backports I'm not interested in. A title with ' repositories to use' or something like that would have triggered me reading that post.

Ok, let's finish this one, it's clear, not much of a problem to me.

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#24 2021-03-04 03:35:44

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,858
Website

Re: Upgrade all debian repositorie packages?

drtrppr wrote:
johnraff wrote:

You would think, then, that since the BL installer just copies in the live system, the installed system should have all the apt repos too...

Sort of, yes. But I'm not sure we're talking about the exact same thing. When I see the entry 'https://deb.debian.org/debian-security/' in Synaptic-repositories, which is there by default, why can't there be an extra line like 'https://deb.debian.org/debian/' (guess that's what you're trying to say that that isn't that obvious smile )?

You left out the rest of my sentence, which was to say that although you might expect the repo settings to be copied into the new system along with everything else, in fact that doesn't happen because the Debian Installer has reasons of its own to handle apt configuration, even with a "live" install. Hence the missing repo line you'd want to have. And hence my proposition to get the "welcome" script (which runs at least once on new installs) to check it over and offer to fix things if necessary.

Yes, but don't think a lot of people will have that 'problem'.

You might be surprised. That particular issue has come up several times on this forum, and elsewhere. It's already on my to-do list in fact.

---
Agreed about documentation - it's a perennial issue. We do our best, but a lot remains to be improved, when there's time...


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