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#3526 2020-08-15 07:59:00

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Shit.

I would gladly pay a monthly $1 subscription or so (easy couple million a year I suppose?) to Firefox in order to ensure further focus and development but looking at Mozilla (the foundation and the corporation) today I'm very unsure where any money would end up.

In retrospect, I would too, but I fear that ship has sailed now.

If Firefox went away, we'd be stuck with a single web engine, that is WebKit/Blink, controlled by MAG (Microsoft, Apple, Google) at its core

...and that's the real crux. Even using cool & obscure but webkit-based browsers (qutebrowser, luakit, surf...) doesn't save the day.

misko_2083 wrote:

Chromium is a stripped down version of Chrome

Not technically true.
Chromium is (the browser built from) the open source project that is the basis for Chrome.
Just like with Android itself, that is Google's business model: use open source software, slap a few small but very significant closed-source bits on it, give it away for free to suck small bits of life force out of you.


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#3527 2020-08-15 09:14:00

glittersloth
...village idiot
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 1,161

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

I would gladly pay a monthly $1 subscription or so (easy couple million a year I suppose?) to Firefox in order to ensure further focus and development but looking at Mozilla (the foundation and the corporation) today I'm very unsure where any money would end up.

That's the problem. You like to think your past donations went to Firefox* (plus Rust and Servo, maybe) development, but Mozilla went and spent it on Pocket and other shit. Even a FF-development-only guarantee from them wouldn't inspire much confidence these days. Your money would probably just go to some moronic extension that censure's the word "bitches" from web pages or an address bar that obnoxiously zooms in and out.

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#3528 2020-08-15 09:40:14

cog
Developer
From: The Southwest
Registered: 2015-10-27
Posts: 514
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Firefox is way better/responsive lately than its ever been in my experience.  You can also un-tick the things that make you tick.

Don’t know if it actually helps.  But yeah it’s accelerated too.  Chrome ain’t.

Also in regard to chromium.  It’s still kind of evil unless you disable google services from it.


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#3529 2020-08-15 18:22:21

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 6

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

I would gladly pay a monthly $1 subscription or so (easy couple million a year I suppose?) to Firefox in order to ensure further focus and development but looking at Mozilla (the foundation and the corporation) today I'm very unsure where any money would end up.

If current practices were to continue all that money would go to the executives in the corporation, none to the devs.

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#3530 2020-08-16 07:17:34

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 4,949
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

cog wrote:

Firefox is way better/responsive lately than its ever been in my experience.  You can also un-tick the things that make you tick.

Don’t know if it actually helps.  But yeah it’s accelerated too.  Chrome ain’t.

Also in regard to chromium.  It’s still kind of evil unless you disable google services from it.

I wish one could look at it this way, purely software-wise, but it's gone beyond that - it's become a politicum.
The threat of a browser monopoly, should FF not make it in the end. The lack of choices even now.

Think about how important a web browser is. There's even operating systems that have developed around that. Some people do everything in the browser, and I think it's a safe bet that for the vast majority of computer users, the web browser is the single most used software.

FF are squandering away their chance at being the true alternative, the opposition that has a chance of winning.
They've been doing that for years now truth be told. Some good things might have come from it, but overall I must agree with twoion.

But you are right, FF is pretty snappy these days and extremely configurable (keyword user.js) - incl. all those surveillance capitalism features. I just wish they were opt-in and not opt-out.

So on the other hand I agree that FF is still the "best" option.


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#3531 2020-08-16 15:07:36

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 310

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

:thumbup:

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#3532 2020-08-25 16:14:00

Nili
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From: $HOME/♫♪
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I'm very happy with the performance of Mozilla Firefox, As an early user of Iceweasel/Pale Moon for many years I find that Firefox is not the same as i left it in the Australis time.

When I did a system upgrade recently, I thought to give a try version 79.
I was honestly surprised with its performance, layout, simplicity. Today i installed version 80 which performs excellently.

All these years of absence, I am glad to be back in Mozilla Firefox. Even I stayed away from firefox, always have been on the FF family.


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#3533 2020-08-25 21:50:48

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,629
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

FF are squandering away their chance at being the true alternative, the opposition that has a chance of winning.
They've been doing that for years now truth be told. Some good things might have come from it, but overall I must agree with twoion.

But Firefox is still "open-source" software under the MPL. If the demand was there, a private entrepreneur or a consortium could spin off a privacy-secure version. What's Kali Linux's browser? Is it still Firefox ESR?

ohnonot wrote:

... Google's business model: use open source software, slap a few small but very significant closed-source bits on it, give it away for free to suck small bits of life force out of you.

I love the smell of late-stage-capitalism dystopia in the morning! I smells like... life-force.

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#3534 2020-08-31 08:50:55

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

My life is complete, I've heard Jeremy Clarkson reference Peter Sellers and say "minkey". @ 2 minutes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VJ_bKYrfWg

Minkey.  monkey

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#3535 2020-09-01 07:44:24

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,351
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

If you feel you might be starting to get some kind of handle on Regular Expressions...

Have a look at 'man pcre'.  yikes


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#3536 2020-09-01 07:53:35

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,351
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^A little relief - the tutorials here aren't bad:
https://www.rexegg.com/


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#3537 2020-09-01 13:27:39

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 310

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Sometime before I retired, I determined that I needed to learn regular expressions to be able to do my job better. So I started learning.

Only to find out when trying to use them in various parts of my job (UNIX administration, Oracle databases, various scripting facilities) that seemingly everything used its own variant of regular expressions that didn't match the others. So, instead of becoming more proficient at all of them, I became more confused than ever, and gave up trying to know and understand them. I reverted to looking up how to do what I was doing every time I needed to do it.

I wish you better luck than I had.

Last edited by ratcheer (2020-09-01 13:28:36)

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#3538 2020-09-01 20:11:27

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,975

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ratcheer wrote:

Sometime before I retired, I determined that I needed to learn regular expressions to be able to do my job better. So I started learning.

Only to find out when trying to use them in various parts of my job (UNIX administration, Oracle databases, various scripting facilities) that seemingly everything used its own variant of regular expressions that didn't match the others. So, instead of becoming more proficient at all of them, I became more confused than ever, and gave up trying to know and understand them. I reverted to looking up how to do what I was doing every time I needed to do it.

I wish you better luck than I had.

Regex golf, therefore, is a real sport. Studying regex beyond learning a specific tool makes only sense when you abstract from particular syntax and focus on the function (look-ahead, look-behind, how would I do these in different dialects…). Luckily today there are a couple of big regex families that look and work largely the same: PCRE, Posix Simple, Posix Extended, and then a lot of dialects doing either more (Oniguruma library, for example) or less (Lua regular expressions, for example).

What's interesting about regular expressions is that they are computationally interesting, because they are full-blown state machines, and can do a lot <https://nikic.github.io/2012/06/15/The- … sions.html>. Which is why when during code review, you find a regular expression in somebody else's code, it better be very simple and strict and straightforward, otherwise later you'll wonder where the CPU is spending all its time -- in the mini program that got embedded into the actual program via regex.

Given how much people trust regular expressions, imagine what happened if a popular, deeply embedded library like PCRE suffered an unnoticed regression, not covered by tests and manual review (although that is unlikely), maybe even a non-deterministic regression, imagine what fun could be had by such a little bug smile


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#3539 2020-09-02 06:58:32

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,351
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

Luckily today there are a couple of big regex families that look and work largely the same: PCRE, Posix Simple, Posix Extended, and then...

Posix Extended is what bash supports in [[ $var =~ <pattern> ]] and what I'm sort-of familiar with atm. PCRE, I don't think I'll get any deeper in than necessary for the task at hand - right now lookaheads to enable AND grepping with multiple patterns. That's quite doable, and enough for now.

What's interesting about regular expressions is that they are computationally interesting, because they are full-blown state machines, and can do a lot <https://nikic.github.io/2012/06/15/The- … sions.html>

More deep stuff, thank you.
Confirmed what I had long suspected:

nikic wrote:

Well-formed HTML is context-free. So you can match it using regular expressions, contrary to popular opinion.

and

if you are dealing with specific situations a quick regular expression is often the way to go

But also:

But don’t forget two things: Firstly, most HTML you see in the wild is not well-formed (usually not even close to it). And secondly, just because you can, doesn’t mean that you should.

But much of it went as far above my head as 'man pcre'...

FC0Um34.png


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#3540 2020-09-03 15:14:01

Jimbo_G
Member
From: France
Registered: 2017-05-12
Posts: 179

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

An interesting article about "drastically underestimating economic damages from global warming": https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 … 20.1807856

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#3541 2020-09-04 01:41:55

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,351
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^

...feasible that the economic damages from climate change are at least an order of magnitude worse than forecast by economists, and may be so great as to threaten the survival of human civilization.

30 years ago I came to this conclusion and told everyone I met, sent emails etc...
No-one paid any attention. Got tired and gave up.
I have resigned myself to the end of civilization and pushed it to the back of my mind.

Sorry. neutral


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#3542 2020-09-04 21:58:08

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,629
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

johnraff wrote:

^

...feasible that the economic damages from climate change are at least an order of magnitude worse than forecast by economists, and may be so great as to threaten the survival of human civilization.

30 years ago I came to this conclusion and told everyone I met, sent emails etc...
No-one paid any attention. Got tired and gave up.
I have resigned myself to the end of civilization and pushed it to the back of my mind.

Sorry. neutral

It's what I've said, and more, for over a decade now about the US...

In 1972, when I was 8, I remember the oil embargo with cars lined up for a mile at the gas stations, we knew we had a fossil fuel dependence problem.

I remember a Public Service Announcement of the crying Indian lamenting pollution (a propaganda ad designed to shift blame from corporations to consumers), we knew we had an ecological awareness problem. By the eighties acid rain created by Detroit and other industrial city pollution in the midwest was killing salamanders and other fragile ecosystems in New England and we new it, hence stricter EPA guidelines.

I remember the major interstate I-95 Mianus River Bridge near Bridgeport, CT collapsed in the middle of the night in 1983, sending cars into the river. Three people died, we knew he wad an infrastructure problem.

I saw the reports, year after year, of our education and health systems falling behind in the world, and our tax codes badly in need of restructuring. And all the while the military corporations, the oil companies, the pharmaceutical corporations, the real-estate developers, the insurance companies and the banks got richer and richer.

And we have done almost nothing to address and rectify those major issues in fifty years. Our corporate oligarchy, which is now a global corporate oligarchy, controls government and the result is disaster, because that oligarchy literally only cares about one thing, maximizing profit, and all other concerns be damned.

-edit- It's surreal that my favorite cheesy '70s sci-fi dystopia films like The Omega Man and Rollerball are so poignant to me in 2020.

Last edited by hhh (2020-09-04 22:20:39)

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#3543 2020-09-05 04:42:37

glittersloth
...village idiot
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 1,161

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I've been telling people for years that we should've kept the two-strokes and killed off cows instead. There'd be less pollution, motorsport would be better, and Frenchmen would have one less thing to fling at us.

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#3544 2020-09-05 05:34:58

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,356

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

glittersloth wrote:

I've been telling people for years that we should've kept the two-strokes and killed off cows instead. There'd be less pollution, motorsport would be better, and Frenchmen would have one less thing to fling at us.

Classic g.sloth! big_smile


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#3545 2020-09-16 12:09:46

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,975

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Apple is releasing iOS 14 and ipadOS 14 tomorrow. Why is that interesting? For perspective.

iOS 14 is compatible with these devices.


    iPhone 11
    iPhone 11 Pro
    iPhone 11 Pro Max
    iPhone XS
    iPhone XS Max
    iPhone XR
    iPhone X
    iPhone 8
    iPhone 8 Plus
    iPhone 7
    iPhone 7 Plus
    iPhone 6s
    iPhone 6s Plus
    iPhone SE (1st generation)
    iPhone SE (2nd generation)
    iPod touch (7th generation)

So the iphone SE 1/iphone 6s released in 2016/2015, you continue getting major software upgrades for a period of 5 years, plus of course regular security rollups.

IpadOS 14 is compatible with

    iPad Air 2
    iPad Air (3rd generation)
    iPad Air (4th generation)
    iPad (5th generation)
    iPad (6th generation)
    iPad (7th generation)
    iPad (8th generation)
    iPad Mini 4
    iPad Mini (5th generation)
    iPad Pro (all models)

That means the ipad air 2, which was released in 2014, is getting major software updates 6 years later.

Speaking about total cost of ownership, if you buy an iphone se 2 today at full retail price of 435 EUR and keep it for 6-7 years, TCO is 62 EUR per year.

If you are a cheapo like me who buys a Sony android device in 2018 which gets no major updates and a trickle of 6-monthly security rollups (to stop any time soon) for 280 EUR TCO for 2 yeares is 140 EUR/year, 93 EUR / year for 3 years, after which it's guaranteed to EOL and you have to waste time running Lineage (will degrade camera) or buy a new "mid-range" with decent camera for 280 EUR. So we can expect a TCO of 93 EUR/year for crappy Androids whereas the Iphone is 30% cheaper even though it is more expensive upfront.

So Sam Wines' Theory of Economic Justice fully applies. https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_V … _Injustice Not saying buy apple, but you shouldn't buy overpriced throwaway abandonware either.


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#3546 2020-09-16 14:22:32

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 475
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

If you are a cheapo like me who buys a Sony android device in 2018 which gets no major updates and a trickle of 6-monthly security rollups (to stop any time soon) for 280 EUR TCO for 2 yeares is 140 EUR/year, 93 EUR / year for 3 years, after which it's guaranteed to EOL and you have to waste time running Lineage (will degrade camera) or buy a new "mid-range" with decent camera for 280 EUR. So we can expect a TCO of 93 EUR/year for crappy Androids whereas the Iphone is 30% cheaper even though it is more expensive upfront.

So Sam Wines' Theory of Economic Justice fully applies. https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_V … _Injustice Not saying buy apple, but you shouldn't buy overpriced throwaway abandonware either.

I have noticed this difference between Apple and Android but I never went so far as to calculate the difference. But is this the true TCO? I have zero iOS-device experience and limited Android experience despite having a work phone of that type. I have found a bunch of neat and useful apps for Android for which I have not had to pay (directly). I see people complain about the scarcity of such apps in Apple's walled garden.

I also see/hear complaints that Iphones are 'brittle' but maybe that is history.

Another alternative is the Sony + Sailfish combo. Ohnonot is our expert on that.

For now I cling on to my Nokia 700 (Nokia Belle OS, no updates for many years and no new apps but works just fine for me, YMMV).

Oh, since this is a Linux forum: How do you transfer data between your BL computer and an iOS device? I can do it for an Android device but it is unnecessarily complicated. My Nokia behaves like any old USB stick if I hook it up to my computer. Drag-and-drop or CLI...

/Martin


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#3547 2020-09-16 16:41:11

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Martin wrote:

Oh, since this is a Linux forum: How do you transfer data between your BL computer and an iOS device? I can do it for an Android device but it is unnecessarily complicated. My Nokia behaves like any old USB stick if I hook it up to my computer. Drag-and-drop or CLI...

/Martin

It's a hassle, there's an entire article on it: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/IOS#Installation.

However, it's not much better on Android. Yes, MTP is available, but in my experience it is unusable because it's so slow; writing movie to the phone takes ages. Same for pulling data. The only workable solution I have is adb push/pull (you can't simply take out the SD card if you opt to encrypt it -- and of course I encrypt all my mobile devices).

These days, all my transfer to/from Android is over the network using RCX https://github.com/x0b/rcx (which is just rclone for Android) and Microsoft Cloud (OneDrive). Native methods are too slow, and Google is pushing their cloud (Google Photos, Google Drive, …) anyway.

For email, contacts and calendar, I'm using a hoster (IMAP, CardDAV, CalDAV) anyway so there's no problem in getting the productivity side to work for me on iOS. I have no problem paying for good  apps even though iOS mail + calendar + contacts should fulfill all my needs, and then my hoster (Fastmail) has their own native app anyway.


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#3548 2020-09-16 16:46:58

nore
>2⁹
From: squirrels' nest
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 517

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Martin wrote:

How do you transfer data between your BL computer and an iOS device?

Through cloud. In my case at work, it is MS OneDrive; that's what I have to use anyway, and my work iPhone and work iPad are already connected to O365 all the time.  I don't want the pain of plugging a wire between iGadget and PC, it makes me bang my head on the desk.

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#3549 2020-09-16 16:48:41

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,629
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Wait, how do you keep an iPhone for 6 years? Battery replacement and good to go for another 3 years? Wouldn't you just want a new phone with better hardware at the 3-year point?

Oh yeah, I forgot. iPhones are crazy expensive. Starting at $400 USD.

I use Android, I just changed my phone service (to Mint Mobile here in the US, $20/month with 8G of data) and upgraded my phone (LG Aristo 3. Twice the internal memory than my old phone and a Snapdragon processor). I'm much happier having a new phone for $100, I can't imagine using my LG Tribute Dynasty ($80 when I bought it) for another 3 years, even if I hadn't finally cracked the screen.

USB transfer between Buster and my phone is simple. Yes, transferring a movie is slow. How often do I watch a movie on my phone? Never? Just bring the laptop, you'll enjoy the movie more. Unless it's a newer Adam Sandler film, there's no saving that.

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#3550 2020-09-16 17:59:24

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 4,949
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:
iOS 14 is compatible with these devices.


    iPhone 11
    iPhone 11 Pro
    iPhone 11 Pro Max
    iPhone XS
    iPhone XS Max
    iPhone XR
    iPhone X
    iPhone 8
    iPhone 8 Plus
    iPhone 7
    iPhone 7 Plus
    iPhone 6s
    iPhone 6s Plus
    iPhone SE (1st generation)
    iPhone SE (2nd generation)
    iPod touch (7th generation)

So the iphone SE 1/iphone 6s released in 2016/2015, you continue getting major software upgrades for a period of 5 years, plus of course regular security rollups.

IpadOS 14 is compatible with

    iPad Air 2
    iPad Air (3rd generation)
    iPad Air (4th generation)
    iPad (5th generation)
    iPad (6th generation)
    iPad (7th generation)
    iPad (8th generation)
    iPad Mini 4
    iPad Mini (5th generation)
    iPad Pro (all models)

That means the ipad air 2, which was released in 2014, is getting major software updates 6 years later.

That looks nice.
A friend told me similar things; so on-device updates also run that long?
Is it true that they do the updates in a way that underpowered older devices still work afterwards? Meaning, some sort of lightweight iOS update for those 5-year old phones?


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