[FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

johnraff · 2022-10-18 07:33:42

This is a major problem for the 32bit Beryllium release, where dillo is the default browser. (Firefox is too heavy for some of the machines that can otherwise use 32bit BL.)

Last time I checked (days of Lithium) there was no problem, but now dillo just shows a blank screen when trying to load a bunsenlabs.org page. Same behaviour on Lithium and Beryllium, so it's not because of a change in dillo, but something on the BL side, I guess. Debian and other sites come up OK.

@nobody has there been a recent change in server configs that might cause this?

I've found that while some debian pages work in dillo, this one also comes up blank: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/
So while something seems to have changed on our server, it's not only the BL site.

If we can't find a tweak to fix it we'll have to do an urgent search for a replacement lightweight browser to go in the 32bit system!

All the useful links in the menu will be dead otherwise...

Last edited by johnraff (2024-07-16 05:54:32)

rbh · 2022-10-18 15:57:34

Dillo cant show the forum or homepage in Debian LXQT, bullseye either.
But it is the same problem in Live Lithium...

Links2, is maybe an acceptable replacement?

rbh · 2022-10-18 16:22:12

NetSurf might be a better alternativ.

johnraff · 2022-10-19 05:29:12

rbh wrote:

Dillo cant show the forum or homepage in Debian LXQT, bullseye either.
But it is the same problem in Live Lithium...

Yes, I still have my Lithium system on another partition, and dillo is no longer able to show the BL pages there either. The same browser worked OK back in 2020: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 75#p103075
Buster has 3.0.5-5 and Bullseye+ 3.0.5-7 but the behaviour seems to be the same.

debian.org and its subdomains (eg wiki, forum) still work OK, but https://debian-handbook.info just comes up blank like BL.

Have some websites' default SSL settings (for example) changed in the last 2 years?

Possibly this bug? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=924336

But... https://www.dillo.org/ is now down, including the mailing list.
If the project has collapsed then we should really think about a replacement I guess. Pity, I really respected dillo's lightness and speed, and it's also excellent for browsing local package docs, for which I use it on my regular amd64 system.

Last edited by johnraff (2022-10-19 06:02:44)

johnraff · 2022-10-19 08:25:05

Had a play with links2 and netsurf.

First impressions:
netsurf looks more friendly for new users
xlinks2 is much lighter on resources
netsurf is rather slow to load pages
xlinks2 I was unable to find how to do a web search!
netsurf does not register itself as x-www-browser, so we would have to handle that

Neither of them is perfect so far...

Another suggestion - midori?
Seems slightly lighter than netsurf. Not sure about security though.

Both links2 and midori seem to be at the end of their life.
(Midori has gone through a major change.)

Last edited by johnraff (2022-10-20 00:59:12)

nobody · 2022-10-19 11:12:33

So a recent Dillo build does not work? From buster? Does it have a network inspector, debug switch or sth like that to see what's going on? I removed TLSv1.1 support a while back, the new forum is TLSv1.3 only. I can try readding TLSv1.2 back in but it's been out for 4.5 years now and TLSv1.1 is really obsolete by now.

johnraff · 2022-10-19 13:13:49

It's not a change in dillo. The difference between Buster's 3.0.5-5 and Bullseye's 3.0.5-7 is quite minimal, and the issue occurs also on a Lithium system using 3.0.5-5.

I've been searching for a --verbose option or the like, but haven't found it yet.

I'm guessing it is indeed the TLSv1.1 support which is now gone, but don't bother putting it back if it's obsolete.

This bug report does speak of "legacy crypto algorithms": https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=924336

Unfortunately the dillo site has gone down (don't know when) so the project might be finished anyway.

Here's a web archive of the mailing list entry:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190218184 … 11100.html

Until the upstream code returns, and the Debian maintainer builds and releases dillo 3.1, I guess it's a lost cause.

nobody · 2022-10-19 20:50:47

Well if even www.bunsenlabs.org does not work it means it can't even TLSv1.2 which is sad. For the web server config, I've been using https://ssl-config.mozilla.org/ with forums for TLSv1.3 only but the rest of the sites isTLSv1.2 with high quality ciphers as well.

TBF this is going to affect a lot of "old" android phones as well.

I guess both MIdori or Epiphany would be fine. Midori has become also just another Chrome(ium) browser it seems - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midori_(web_browser)

johnraff · 2022-10-20 00:56:48

Even www.bunsenlabs.org doesn't work:

john@beryllium:~$ dillo http://www.bunsenlabs.org/
[dpid]: a_Misc_mksecret: 2f20c01c
dpid started
[cookies dpi]: Enabling cookies as per cookiesrc...
[cookies dpi]: Cookies loaded: 0.
[cookies dpi]: (v.1) accepting connections...
140052827603968:error:14094458:SSL routines:ssl3_read_bytes:tlsv1 unrecognized name:../ssl/record/rec_layer_s3.c:1543:SSL alert number 112

Though even that is more output than with https requests which just hang silently.

Midori on Bullseye is still the webkit version - I don't know if the maintainer will continue providing the new one, which is quite different. The Debian package page only goes up to Bullseye atm.

I've just installed epiphany but it's substantially bigger than midori and slower too. Midori also seems faster than NetSurf. I still have to install these browsers on my old 32bit laptop to compare in a more realistic situation.

There are also these forks of dillo:
https://github.com/rodarima/dillo
https://github.com/w00fpack/dilloNG
https://github.com/HanZhen233/dillo

Dillo is fantastically fast, but shipping our own build isn't a super-attractive option.

Whatever we choose for Beryllium, of course a 32-bit version is essential - the regular 64-bit iso will ship Firefox.

Last edited by johnraff (2022-10-20 01:30:38)

rbh · 2022-10-20 17:36:28

I mailed the core team jcid@dillo.org, sgeerken@dillo.org, Johannes.Hofmann@gmx.de,
eocene@gmx.com and the swedish contributor: jviksell@dillo.org, listed in archive-org's snapshot from sptember.

Last edited by rbh (2022-10-20 17:36:55)

johnraff · 2022-10-20 23:46:38

^ Thanks - let's hope the outage is temporary!

johnraff · 2022-10-21 07:25:05

I managed to build dillo with mbedtls support from this repo:
https://github.com/w00fpack/dilloNG

Adapted the debian packaging from 3.0.5:
adjusted the patches to match the new code
removed some obsolete references in debian/docs that had moved directory and were blocking the build
added a build dependency on libmbedtls-dev

Now it handles all the BL and Debian pages in the menu, and presumably other https, OK.

It's much faster than the other browsers we were looking at, which makes it tempting.
If you want to try it, I put 32 and 64 bit debs on sourceforge:

wget https://sourceforge.net/projects/bunsenlabs-releases/files/debs/dillo_3.1.0-1~jr2_i386.deb
wget https://sourceforge.net/projects/bunsenlabs-releases/files/debs/dillo_3.1.0-1~jr2_amd64.deb

Browsers aren't something to be taken lightly security-wise, which applies to all the smaller projects with infrequent upgrades. The thing to be said for dillo is that its complete lack of support for any javascript, and limited css, should make it a smaller target.

If we eventually decide to ship this I'll rebuild it with better documentation and a clear link to the code's origins.

Anyway, something to consider.

---
BTW I also uploaded the above two files to kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/public
They're visible via ssh, same permissions as eg bunsen-dev.asc in the same directory, but while wget can fetch the latter, I get:

john@beryllium:~/tmp$ wget "https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/dillo_3.1.0-1~jr2_i386.deb"
--2022-10-21 16:48:19--  https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/dillo_3.1.0-1~jr2_i386.deb
Resolving kelaino.bunsenlabs.org (kelaino.bunsenlabs.org)... 78.47.156.207, 2a01:4f8:c17:2c09::2
Connecting to kelaino.bunsenlabs.org (kelaino.bunsenlabs.org)|78.47.156.207|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
2022-10-21 16:48:25 ERROR 404: Not Found.


john@beryllium:~/tmp$ wget "https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/bunsen-dev.asc"
--2022-10-21 16:49:26--  https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/bunsen-dev.asc
Resolving kelaino.bunsenlabs.org (kelaino.bunsenlabs.org)... 78.47.156.207, 2a01:4f8:c17:2c09::2
Connecting to kelaino.bunsenlabs.org (kelaino.bunsenlabs.org)|78.47.156.207|:443... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 6860 (6.7K) [application/pgp-keys]
Saving to: ‘bunsen-dev.asc’

bunsen-dev.asc      100%[===================>]   6.70K  --.-KB/s    in 0s      

2022-10-21 16:49:32 (101 MB/s) - ‘bunsen-dev.asc’ saved [6860/6860]

Some silly mistake I made?
A caching issue?

Last edited by johnraff (2022-10-22 01:22:15)

rbh · 2022-10-21 10:45:09

Ok, could now even login and reply.

Nice work!

nobody · 2022-10-21 21:19:51

^ The path your kelaino folder is served from is /srv/kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/ not /home/johnraff/public.

johnraff · 2022-10-22 00:58:46

^Ah so the .asc file in /home/johnraff/public is a leftover from a bygone age and confusing the issue. And the tilde in /srv/kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/ is for backward compatibility with former urls.
Thank you for clarifying!

Move the files to the correct place, and they can now be downloaded no problem.

I guess the directory /home/johnraff/public could best just be removed?

Last edited by johnraff (2022-10-22 03:55:08)

nobody · 2022-10-22 16:09:48

^ You can delete it anytime. If you prefer, download then delete it...

rbh · 2022-10-23 17:22:09

rbh wrote:

I mailed the core team jcid@dillo.org, sgeerken@dillo.org, Johannes.Hofmann@gmx.de,
eocene@gmx.com and the swedish contributor: jviksell@dillo.org, listed in archive-org's snapshot from sptember.

Everything bounced. Was thinking about mailing the rest of the team. Maybe not any idea? Still getting "There has been a critical error on this website." on dillo.org.

johnraff · 2022-10-24 00:26:32

According to the wikipedia web page, dillo's site has been down at least since August this year.
More, the wikipedia talk page has this comment near the bottom:

It seems the whole site is gone, like they lost control of the dillo.org domain… Anyone knows how to contact them? :'( Mmu man (talk) 23:04, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Reddit discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments … r_minimal/
Seems like the web site went down this year between May and June, and the 2019 outage was something different.

I haven't been able to find any trace of the official code repository, even on the wayback machine - all that's left is a couple of forks on GitHub. That's not very encouraging, but dillo 3.0.5 is still in Debian, so maybe it would be OK for us to ship the upgraded 3.1, at least for Beryllium 32bit?

Last edited by johnraff (2022-10-24 01:18:57)

rbh · 2022-10-24 07:03:11

johnraff wrote:

According to the wikipedia web page, dillo's site has been down at least since August this year.
More, the wikipedia talk page has this comment near the bottom:
It seems the whole site is gone, like they lost control of the dillo.org domain… Anyone knows how to contact them? :'( Mmu man (talk) 23:04, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

I read those inconclusive comments. Note that Mmu man, posted that comment in june 2019. Archive.org has some functional snapshots after june. The last in 2022.10.06

"whois dillo.org" says the domain was updated 2022-08-10.
https://www.dillo.org/Cookies.txt is still available. Mail to jorgen.viksell@telia.com, also bounced. There is only one Swedish citizen registered with that name. I called his mobile (no answer), texted him.

I haven't been able to find any trace of the official code repository, even on the wayback machine - all that's left is a couple of forks on GitHub. That's not very encouraging, but dillo 3.0.5 is still in Debian, so maybe it would be OK for us to ship the upgraded 3.1, at least for Beryllium 32bit?

On https://github.com/orsenthil/dillo, it says: "Git repository for https://hg.dillo.org/dillo maintained by me.".

Of cource, our fork could be shipped in 32 bit, but there is no need to ship dillo in 64 bit.

Last edited by rbh (2022-10-24 07:04:03)

johnraff · 2022-10-24 08:13:56

rbh wrote:

https://www.dillo.org/Cookies.txt is still available.

Confirmed - that is interesting! So the server is still running, but there's something wrong with the Wordpress setup?

...maybe it would be OK for us to ship the upgraded 3.1, at least for Beryllium 32bit?
On https://github.com/orsenthil/dillo, it says: "Git repository for https://hg.dillo.org/dillo maintained by me.".

Hmm... so that's a possibility too. It's older than the repo I built from, but looks slightly more "official".
I guess I'd better try building from this repo too.

...there is no need to ship dillo in 64 bit.

Agreed. I use it myself for doc browsing and quick web lookups, but the Debian version seems OK for that. Let's minimize our vulnerability and only ship the 32bit version of 3.1.

#1 2022-10-18 07:33:42

[FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#2 2022-10-18 15:57:34

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#3 2022-10-18 16:22:12

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#4 2022-10-19 05:29:12

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#5 2022-10-19 08:25:05

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#6 2022-10-19 11:12:33

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#7 2022-10-19 13:13:49

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#8 2022-10-19 20:50:47

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#9 2022-10-20 00:56:48

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#10 2022-10-20 17:36:28

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#11 2022-10-20 23:46:38

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#12 2022-10-21 07:25:05

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#13 2022-10-21 10:45:09

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#14 2022-10-21 21:19:51

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#15 2022-10-22 00:58:46

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#16 2022-10-22 16:09:48

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#17 2022-10-23 17:22:09

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#18 2022-10-24 00:26:32

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#19 2022-10-24 07:03:11

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

#20 2022-10-24 08:13:56

Re: [FIXED with dillo upgrade] dillo no longer displays BL pages

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