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#2 2018-10-31 04:13:07

hhh
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

Dr. Hannibal Lecter: Tell me Clarice, would ever say to me.. stop? If you loved me, you'd stop?

Special Agent Clarice Starling: Not unless you went vegan.

Dr. Lecter, amused: Not unless I went vegan?

pretends that he's going to bite her face off, she flinches but stays strong

That's my girl.

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#3 2018-10-31 04:26:36

hhh
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

My upcoming thesis in film school argues how Hannibal Lecter is a symbol for corporate meat farming and Clarice Starling is a symbol of protest against the complicity of the world governments to not humanely regulate the protein industry.

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 930#p77930

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#4 2018-10-31 04:46:59

damo
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

Stanley Miller recollected his lifelong experiments following his original work and stated: "Just turning on the spark in a basic pre-biotic experiment will yield 11 out of 20 amino acids."

Wikipedia

And it is likely that a natural experiment 3-4 billion years ago produced even more amino acids -> DNA ---> endless arguments by combinations of DNA about which combination of DNA should consume another combination of DNA. I blame DNA.


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#5 2018-10-31 07:17:03

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

"You may also want to consider supplements like vitamin B12."

Says it all.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#6 2018-10-31 13:34:45

S7.L
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Posts: 102

Re: The real Veganism thread.

^ going devils advocate here but i read one can maintain a healthy b12 level without the need for supplements and remain vegan.Im also getting the vibe in regards to how sanitized (think gmo's etc) our food is and how much money the supplement companies must make for so called "deficiencies" in the diet. But if you do believe the science then you should make sure your b12 levels are ok.

Lots of science out there is dubious, this one probably not. Ive always found the fluoride we all supposedly need in the drinking water to be very dubious.


"Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate."...Voilà!

~ V

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#7 2018-10-31 14:03:20

glittersloth
...always giving it to you straight
Registered: 2015-09-30
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

S7.L wrote:

... and how much money the supplement companies must make for so called "deficiencies" in the diet.

The thing I worry about with many of these supplements is whether they contain anything that causes our bodies to become dependent on them. Like what's the probability of your health taking a turn for the worse if you stop using them one day, even if you've started consuming foods containing whatever the pills were supposedly supplementing.

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#8 2018-10-31 14:19:31

S7.L
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Registered: 2018-09-16
Posts: 102

Re: The real Veganism thread.

^ lots of people take weird and wonderful concoctions that would probably only make a placebo effect anyway. Lots of hypochondriacs around who think a pill is the answer to what ails them. It is quite possible but i dont know whether you could become dependant on a multivitamin or something similar, most likely mind over matter.


"Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate."...Voilà!

~ V

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#9 2018-10-31 14:27:04

johnraff
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

Indian vegetarian food is wonderful. I found the food in the South, especially, so delicious that eating almost no meat for 2~3 months was no deprivation at all. But the traditional Indian vegetarian diet includes dairy products, which makes proper nourishment easier. (I remember reading somewhere that if you eat some yoghurt along with lentils then you get all the necessary amino acids.)


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#10 2018-10-31 14:39:45

S7.L
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Posts: 102

Re: The real Veganism thread.

^ and the Indians revere their cows as holy beasts and treat them very well, so milk and yoghurt would be a natural gift maybe?

Last edited by S7.L (2018-10-31 14:42:18)


"Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate."...Voilà!

~ V

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#11 2018-10-31 22:01:37

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
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Posts: 271
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

Homo sapiens is an omnivore.
Eat a little of everything and nothing in excess and you will be fine.
Stray from this -- for whatever reason -- and you have to spend much more time/effort on making sure you stay healthy.

/Martin (have seen Indian cheese marketed as vegetarian despite being milk based, but then christians once decided fish is not meat...)


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
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#12 2018-11-01 04:47:19

johnraff
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

@Martin I think vegan and vegetarian are different. Many people describing themselves as "vegetarians" eat eggs and/or dairy products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism
Vegans are strictly no animal products at all.

In India the traditional meatless diet is described as "vegetarian" and I remember railway stations usually had "vegetarian" and "non vegetarian" restaurants. (The food was usually better at the vegetarian places.)


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#13 2018-11-02 08:40:00

misko_2083
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

johnraff wrote:

@Martin I think vegan and vegetarian are different. Many people describing themselves as "vegetarians" eat eggs and/or dairy products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism
Vegans are strictly no animal products at all.

In India the traditional meatless diet is described as "vegetarian" and I remember railway stations usually had "vegetarian" and "non vegetarian" restaurants. (The food was usually better at the vegetarian places.)

Denominations within one faith share the same fundamental elements of the faith but have different practices or different interpretations of specific elements of that faith. Like Ortodox and Catholic within Christianity, Sunni and Shia within Islam, there are now Vegeterian and Vegan denominations within this diet dogma sect.
From an economic aspect, propagating such beliefs is very profitable business.

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#14 2018-11-02 14:11:02

johnraff
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

^Agreed about all these various diets that appear from time to time. But vegetarianism per se has a long tradition in some countries, eg India I mentioned, where it's the diet of (I think) the majority of people, and certainly a large group. They aren't following a dogma, they're just eating how they've always eaten.

I believe there is a group of people in northern Finland whose diet is almost exclusively meat. They manage to survive too.


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#15 2018-11-02 14:28:56

hhh
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

johnraff wrote:

^Agreed about all these various diets that appear from time to time. But vegetarianism per se has a long tradition in some countries, eg India I mentioned, where it's the diet of (I think) the majority of people, and certainly a large group. They aren't following a dogma, they're just eating how they've always eaten.

I believe there is a group of people in northern Finland whose diet is almost exclusively meat. They manage to survive too.

Meat in a vegan thread, I like it.

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/finla … o-finland/

My objection is only about the evangelism. Ethical diet? Sure, that will save the world.

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#16 2018-11-02 15:20:09

damo
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

The northern Inuit traditionally had a largely carnivorous diet, with much carbohydrate being supplied by glycogen in raw meat and fish, and by fermenting carcasses.

It has been suggested that certain seal species are the only possible single food source that humans could survive on for an extended period, since they provide all the necessary food groups and vitamins. Go easy with the liver though, because you could get vitamin D poisoning hmm


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#17 2018-11-02 15:33:27

misko_2083
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

johnraff wrote:

^Agreed about all these various diets that appear from time to time. But vegetarianism per se has a long tradition in some countries, eg India I mentioned, where it's the diet of (I think) the majority of people, and certainly a large group. They aren't following a dogma, they're just eating how they've always eaten.

I believe there is a group of people in northern Finland whose diet is almost exclusively meat. They manage to survive too.

Most people in India are not vegeterian. It is a common myth. www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-43581122

In fact they are following a dogma. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_in_Hinduism
It is also a matter of prestige in the upper classes (casts).

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#18 2018-11-02 21:45:52

ohnonot
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

just found this on reddit.

some nice comments, too.
(i am not against veganism! some of the comments are pretty offensive, but others are hilarious!)

Last edited by ohnonot (2018-11-04 07:59:48)

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#19 2018-11-02 22:28:47

damo
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

ohnonot wrote:

just found this on reddit.

some nice comments, too.

Some priceless comments in there! Cruel but fair big_smile


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#20 2018-11-03 02:58:31

johnraff
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

misko_2083 wrote:

Most people in India are not vegeterian. It is a common myth. www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-43581122

In fact they are following a dogma. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_in_Hinduism
It is also a matter of prestige in the upper classes (casts).

Thank you for the BBC link, it was very interesting. My own impression may have been distorted by the fact I was in S India (mostly Tamil Nadu) most of my stay, and just by eating what was readily on offer found myself following a vegetatian diet. I guess restaurants' offerings are shifted by what is considered socially acceptable, so may be different from what people eat at home (although that article made the same point to suggest more meat was eaten in restaurants). It's certainly true that more meat is eaten in the north, and by lower castes. Again, the influence of the Moguls means that "royal" food is meat-based, so there's always a counter-argument.

But I think my basic point that vegetarianism is well-established in India, and has been for a very long time, still stands.

For devout Hindus, or followers of any religion for that matter, everything in life is affected by dogma, not just food.


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#21 2018-11-03 14:42:02

misko_2083
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

^even in the small countries there is a variety of different dialects,  customs, traditions and food from one region to another. I can't imagine how different are they in such a big country.

I guess the impression about a country you are visiting evolves with time. The longer you stay the more you learn about the habits, traditions, diet of the locals, and myths. But, that also changes the perspective you have about your own country, your perspective about life, food, and people.

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#22 2018-11-03 18:05:16

MALsPa
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From: albuquerque
Registered: 2016-06-20
Posts: 87

Re: The real Veganism thread.

misko_2083 wrote:

I guess the impression about a country you are visiting evolves with time. The longer you stay the more you learn about the habits, traditions, diet of the locals, and myths.

The same sort of thing happens with whatever city you happen to be visiting (or living in).

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#23 2018-11-04 03:06:15

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 4,677
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Re: The real Veganism thread.

misko_2083 wrote:

^even in the small countries there is a variety of different dialects,  customs, traditions and food from one region to another. I can't imagine how different are they in such a big country.

Really! Different food, music, languages, even different writing. I suppose Punjab and Kerala must be as different as Sweden and Portugal (for example).


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#24 2018-11-05 10:01:15

Jimbo_G
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From: France
Registered: 2017-05-12
Posts: 76

Re: The real Veganism thread.

johnraff wrote:

But I think my basic point that vegetarianism is well-established in India, and has been for a very long time, still stands.

Yes, even 20% to 30% of the population being vegetarian is a huge amount compared to most (all?) other countries.

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#25 2018-11-05 13:34:22

misko_2083
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Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 93

Re: The real Veganism thread.

MALsPa wrote:
misko_2083 wrote:

I guess the impression about a country you are visiting evolves with time. The longer you stay the more you learn about the habits, traditions, diet of the locals, and myths.

The same sort of thing happens with whatever city you happen to be visiting (or living in).

Well yes, to a certain extent. Life in smaller towns is seems slower, the food and habits are much more traditional. In bigger cities life the tempo of living is faster, people earn more to spend more. In bigger cities there is also the need to be modern and to follow the modern trends like veganism or fast food. Both too extreme for my taste.

johnraff wrote:
misko_2083 wrote:

^even in the small countries there is a variety of different dialects,  customs, traditions and food from one region to another. I can't imagine how different are they in such a big country.

Really! Different food, music, languages, even different writing. I suppose Punjab and Kerala must be as different as Sweden and Portugal (for example).

India has a huge population and enormous teritory.
Officialy there are 23 languages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l … s_in_India
I also found this:
https://www.desiblitz.com/content/diale … ages-india

Unfortunately, I know very little about their writing system.

---

As an example about differences in US, I remember a story about a business meeting between two businessman. One from Texas, the other one from New York.
The man from Texas came to New York airport, the other one was waiting for him.

They had different clothes. The man from Texas was looking like a cowboy, with a hat aligator boots and cowboy spurs with rowels. The man from New York had a classical suit and a tie, looking like a banker.

When the two businessmen met on the airport terminal, the man from Texas yelled:
"Howdy, partner!", while raising his hands to hug the other one.
The man from New York was just reaching to shake his hand like he got used to. He was intimidated by the other man and he started to go back a few steps.
So the first one was steping forward so that he could hug the second, the second one was stepping back until he hit the wall.

Don't know if the story is true.

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