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#2376 2018-10-21 12:06:54

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ and south park!

i recently watched seasons 19 & 20, and to my embarrassment (those are from 2015/16) the whole CoC debacle and PC paranoia that got me so riled up, it's all there! it's all been dealt with - 3 years ago!

i still love south park.
thank god they're gay jews, otherwise they'd be ripped to tiny pieces by Ehmke & co.


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#2377 2018-10-29 05:43:03

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Q:
what's up with Tesla cars?
I see a few of them around, but apart from the retractable doorhandles they're just normal cars, no?
like, combustion engine cars?
so what's the story here? i understand they designed a fully (only?) electric car 5 years ago?


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#2378 2018-10-29 11:03:23

glittersloth
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ They're EVs. Electric motors, lithium-ion batteries. Some call them the future. Some call them glorified flashlights. Zero emissions, aside from the carbon footprint required to manufacture them, the electricity they need, and the cobalt, lithium and other rare metals being mined.

They drive well, based on my very limited experience in one of em. Drive-train and battery tech (more credit to Panasonic than Tesla here, imho) are tops. Build quality is shoddy at best. Interior creaked more than my dead grandmother. Oh, they also get OTA software updates like your smartphone, for better or worse.

Their fanboys are the most annoying neanderthings in existence. If you thought Prius drivers a decade ago were insufferable, you ain't seen nothing yet. Called "car vegans" in some circles.

Last edited by glittersloth (2018-10-29 13:38:20)

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#2379 2018-10-30 18:11:22

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

glittersloth wrote:

They're EVs. Electric motors, lithium-ion batteries.

like seriously, full on 100% electric, no combustion engine?
all tesla models?
strange, i'm pretty sure i saw exhaust pipes or something like that, and heard a petrol engine.
but i could be wrong there.

Oh, they also get OTA software updates like your smartphone, for better or worse.

ouch. i can imagine a lot going wrong there, and endless jokes/outrage when it evtl. happens.

Their fanboys are the most annoying neanderthings in existence. If you thought Prius drivers a decade ago were insufferable, you ain't seen nothing yet. Called "car vegans" in some circles.

i can believe that.
but hey, a 100% electric car is super cool (of course it still depends where the elctricity comes from, but in norway, no problem, all water energy), even if its owners are d!cks.

but - such EV cars also exist in a - how to put it - more modest form factor. which is ethically also important.

in the end, i guess tesla's way is the only way to make electric cars popular: owning one, you still have to come out a winner in the age-old "who's got the longest" contest.

Last edited by ohnonot (2018-10-30 18:12:48)


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#2380 2018-10-30 21:52:15

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

https://www.tesla.com/

Fully electric. As you can see, the Model S is a mid-size, 4 door, all-electric drive luxury sedan with a 0-60 time of 2.5 seconds that will crush a standard Porsche 911, has the highest safety rating of any car and has a range of over 300 miles. Note that there is no front grill as there is no internal combustion engine that needs air-cooling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S


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#2381 2018-10-31 00:07:47

glittersloth
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

but - such EV cars also exist in a - how to put it - more modest form factor. which is ethically also important.

The limitation with EVs will always be battery tech. If your want range, you'll need more space for batteries, and you'll need to house those batteries low in the chassis to in order to bring the center of gravity as low as possible, or the thing would handle like a dilapidated truck (batteries are heavy). Hence, you get all EVs in the so-called "skateboard" style chassis, whic inevitably leads to them having a long wheelbase. It's not just Tesla. Even the recent Jaguar I-Pace, considered by many reviewers (outside Silicon Valley) to be the most useable modern EV, have this very elongated look about them. Fwiw, I agree that most modern cars are way too big and heavy. Put a 911 from the 80s next to the current version and it looks positively tiny.   


hhh wrote:

https://www.tesla.com/

Fully electric. As you can see, the Model S is a mid-size, 4 door, all-electric drive luxury sedan with a 0-60 time of 2.5 seconds that will crush a standard Porsche 911,

Note: It'll beat a 911 once. Then the computer will prevent you from doing those acceleration runs till the battery cools down, so the Porsche (or even a Civic Type R) will still spank it senseless round a windy road or track. I won't argue with the benefits of EVs - the way an electric motor can immitate any sort of ICE firing order and switch on the fly is what excites me the most - and defitely see them as the future, but that Tesla acceleration argument is simply juvenile.

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#2382 2018-10-31 00:29:57

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

To paraphrase James May in one of the later Top Gear episodes, batteries suck!

The trio then went on to show, in one of their last episodes with the BBC, how hybrid vehicles were completely awesome in every way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSqzp3kdAm4

BTW, must watch for any motor enthusiast.


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#2383 2018-10-31 01:17:26

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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Battery technology is getting huge attention from companies, because it's so critical. All kinds of improvements seem to be in the pipeline.

No-one's mentioned the Nissan Leaf which has been on sale since 2010. A bit down-market from the Teslas, and smaller battery I think, so less range, but all that will change soon I'm sure. Toyota are working hard on it too, though they got trapped by the success of the hybrid Prius.


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#2384 2018-10-31 01:25:27

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Spam, for the video game enthusiasts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fnTZKvX5jg


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#2385 2018-10-31 04:54:03

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 928#p77928

It's brilliant!

In Red Dragon, the blind victim is introduced to a tiger and nuzzles it, whereas the killer eats the dragon painting from the library.

In Silence Of The Lambs, Bill's prize possessions are his puppy and his butterflies and moths, and you could strongly argue that partially he kills because his experience in Vietnam created a feeling in him that animal life was more precious than human life, which leads him to his own pathological gender dystopia.

In the same movie, Lecter eats everything to the tune of Bach, the magazine Bon Apetit, the fine drawings, the savage blood, his heart barely elevating according to Dr. Chilton. Clarice never eats anything, ever.

In Hannibal, Lecter saves Clarice from the pigs, and convinces Cornell to dump Virgil into the pigs to be eaten alive. She has wine near the end, he has brains. Human, meat-killing brains. She is pure, vegan or whatever, he is corrupt, carnivore, cannibal in fact, hence "That's my girl." She is the vegan Jing to his carnivorous Jang, so carnivorous that he becomes the ultimate carnivore.

Except for shark, we never see him take on a big predatory shark.


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#2386 2018-10-31 05:49:51

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Holy shit, I just remembered...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vDe4jJvC_o


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#2387 2018-10-31 07:13:16

Martin
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Tesla Model S mid-size? Not where I live. To me it is big, quite heavy despite being built from aluminum and *very* expensive. The sleek design hides the heft.

Nissan Leaf? Yes, I have colleagues owning such cars and a friend add a couple of Nissan Leaf based small vans to her company's fleet of vehicles. I drove one of those this summer for a bit. It is nothing special -- like driving any van with an automatic transmission. The major difference is you keep a keen eye on the battery level all the time.

/Martin


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#2388 2018-10-31 08:12:22

Jimbo_G
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

In the smaller EV category there's also the Renault Zoe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Zoe) which is the biggest selling EV in Europe at the moment and has a range of 400km.

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#2389 2018-11-01 22:55:00

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Martin wrote:

Tesla Model S mid-size?

The Wikipedia link I posted lists its class as Full-size / Mid-size luxury / Executive car (E) / Grand tourer (S)


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#2390 2018-11-02 06:05:18

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

thanks for the EV info i asked for.

i was indeed misinformed about tesla, and now start to understand how important it is that "Tesla were designed as EVs from scratch". I hope we will see more of those (designed from scratch) in the future.

However: bigger car requires bigger battery to achieve same mileage as smaller car with smaller battery.
and that is a BIG problem these days: apparently all environmental arguments are out the window when it comes to comparing sizes of dicks cars.
The Porsche comparison is good.
You can substitute practically any non-american model that has been running for long enough.
Honda Civic always comes to mind; aren't they supposed to be "compact" (or whatever euphemsim manufacturers use for "small")? Compare a current Civic to the 80s, it's crazy. Back then, that would've been an executive model.


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#2391 2018-11-02 07:49:23

Martin
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I have noticed signs of a trend change when it comes to weight lately. At least some car models are lighter in their latest versions than the next to latest.

As for Civic growth: The current Civic hatch-back is almost as big as my 18 year old Accord but it is quit a bit lighter. (This particular Accord model was never sold in the Americas, it is nimbler Euro-Asian version.)

/Martin


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#2392 2018-11-02 11:43:00

hhh
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I linked the Tesla S as an example, but of course the buzz over the last year has been about the smaller, less expensive Model 3...

https://www.tesla.com/model3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3


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#2393 2018-11-02 16:56:38

glittersloth
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

Honda Civic always comes to mind; aren't they supposed to be "compact" (or whatever euphemsim manufacturers use for "small")? Compare a current Civic to the 80s, it's crazy. Back then, that would've been an executive model.

Then you'd better hope Honda put these concepts into production;
honda-sports-ev-05.jpg

Last edited by glittersloth (2018-11-02 16:56:57)

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#2394 2018-11-02 19:23:35

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ not sure if you're trying to pull my beard, but i love small cars.
whenever i see one of those new fiat 500 i think: well, if i wanted to get a fairly new car for everyday use, that would be it.
i hear that opel adam is just as good, only cheaper.

but of course those are combustion engine cars.
but once again: electric cars only make sense if you have clean electricity.
how energy efficient are they even these days?


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#2395 2018-11-03 03:37:33

glittersloth
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ Mate, I used to think anything bigger than a Radical SR3 was bloat. I've softened now, but yeah, anything bigger than the two concepts in the photo would be too big for me. Can't say the same for families though. Rastafarians with 8 kids would obviously need a camper van. If you can justify filling up all that space, I'm fine with it. No room for obnoxious Range Rovers in my world though.

As for efficiency, it's still early days for EVs, so a LOT can be improved in terms of battery type/capacity, range, energy recovery, etc. On the downside, if you're like me and are hoping the move to electric will simplify stuff, it's sadly going the opposite way. They're putting sensors in everything, simply overcomplicating stuff for the sake of it.

Cars - both EV and ICE - have more individual parts than ever before, and it's not like these individual parts are swappable either in case of damage/malfunction. It's all "modules" and shit, like they're creating different departments in their factories for shits and giggles.

Why in tarnation would anyone even need a sixteen-way electronically adjustable seat? Few drivers even want to adopt the proper posture for driving nowadays anyway. Give them a seat with infinite micro-adjustment and they'll simply convert it into a couch, and then complain to the city council because there are too many "blind corners" on public roads. They wouldn't be blind if you'd bothered to sit straight, Mr Dipshit.

Whatever happened to the "build it simple so there's less that can go wrong" approach? Oh, lower margins. My bad. Might as well add a compositor to public roads. Spinning cubes and flames everywhere. Wheeee!!

Last edited by glittersloth (2018-11-03 03:49:12)

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#2396 2018-11-03 07:18:00

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

glittersloth wrote:

Rastafarians with 8 kids would obviously need a camper van. If you can justify filling up all that space, I'm fine with it. No room for obnoxious Range Rovers in my world though.

same here.
how i hate seeing all these SUVs line up in front of school to drop 1 or 2 kids...
when they bought it, somebody probably convinced them that it's both good for your ego and a family car...
these cars definitely do not minimize fuel consumption, take up a LOT of space when driving, and material when built.

As for efficiency, it's still early days for EVs, so a LOT can be improved in terms of battery type/capacity, range, energy recovery, etc.

considering a scenario with "bad" electricity made from mostly coal, i wonder which alternative is actually better for the environment - EV or combustion...
however, ALL norwegians should've switched to EV only ages ago!!!

Cars - both EV and ICE - have more individual parts than ever before, and it's not like these individual parts are swappable either in case of damage/malfunction. It's all "modules" and shit, like they're creating different departments in their factories for shits and giggles.

just another reason to never want to own a car again.
i remember once (early 2000s) damaging a rear blinker on an almost new car.
i thought, easy, i buy a replacement yellow/orange blinker "glass" thingy, take a screwdriver and change it.
nope.
it's integrated into the whole rear light "assembly", you can't buy only the damaged plastic part, and it probably wasn't attached with screws anyhow.
don't remember the details anymore, but in the end i had to change the whole "light module" or whatever it's called. Plastic molding, colored glass, sockets for bulbs & wires, everything.
not only the blinker.
what a way to make money off people.


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#2397 2018-11-03 08:07:14

damo
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

When the Bush administration was trying to open up arctic oilfields, I read that none of the output would be needed if all US vehicles drove with correct tyre pressures! I bet EV's battery life would benefit from attentive owners.

And they should ensure there are no excessive browser tabs open, or unecessary apps running, on their in-vehicle system. And hope that auto-updates have been properly sorted out!


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#2398 2018-11-03 10:28:42

Martin
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

but once again: electric cars only make sense if you have clean electricity.
how energy efficient are they even these days?

Key observation there. IEEE Spectrum has published 'well-to-wheel' studies of this a number of times over the years. The first time it was triggered by the Californian craze for converting Priuses to plug-in hybrids. They concluded it only made sense if you live where the generation of electricty is carbon free -- in Scandinavia and France. If your electricity comes from fossil fuels you only move the emission from the car to a smoke stack -- from an affluent suburb to some poor neighburhood as someone put it in a later article on EVs.

Shouldn't there be some benefit from the better efficiency of the EV? Well, that is eaten up by the efficiency of the  power grid etc -- as shown in a paper from a Stanford student. Hauling petrol from the refinery to the station is much more efficient than distributing electricity. Counter intuitive to an electrical engineer like me but that is actually how the numbers stack up if you look into it.

Note that the impact of manufacturing batteries etc including the use of conflict minerals is not considered above. Note also that IEEE Spectrum is published by the Institute of Ekectrical and Electronics Engineers, not by some petrol head lobby group.

Bottom line: EVs may be politically correct but buying one does not help the planet. Go for a properly sized ICE car next time instead and don't tick all up-grade boxes. A 1300 kg car has consumed less raw materials than a 1700 kg car when built and will consume less fuel. Ticking the all-wheel-drive box will add ~200 kg and some extra fuel consumption. Don't go by car when you might as well walk or bicycle.

/Martin

PS Related trivia: Half of the particles 'emitted' by a modern diesel car come from the brakes.


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#2399 2018-11-04 07:50:55

ohnonot
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

thanks for more info!

Martin wrote:

If your electricity comes from fossil fuels you only move the emission from the car to a smoke stack -- from an affluent suburb to some poor neighburhood as someone put it in a later article on EVs.

this is so true.
so much of it is NOT about saving the planet, but having a cleaner neighbourhood.
wanting a cleaner neighbourhood is a good thing, but not at that cost.

A 1300 kg car has consumed less raw materials than a 1700 kg car when built and will consume less fuel.

wot? everything over a ton is way too heavy.
i'm serious. the aforementioned new fiat 500 has a curb weight of 500kg.

...but, sadly, i just had a quick glance at some other car models and it seems that even so-called compact cars come in well over a ton. the aforementioned Honda Civic, newest generation, is pretty close to your proposed 1300kg.
this is crazy: the third generation from the 80s weighed 800kg.
So that's 500kg more and for what? nothing, really.

Ego boosting will kill our planet, mark my words.


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#2400 2018-11-04 08:08:26

glittersloth
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

wot? everything over a ton is way too heavy.
i'm serious. the aforementioned new fiat 500 has a curb weight of 500kg.

Are you talking about the original 500 (which was marketed with that weight but actually weighed closer to 600 at the curb) or the modern ones? I'm pretty sure a current Fiat 500 weighs around double that, at the very least. No way you can get any modern road-legal car that light with all the safety and emission regulations these days. Well, you could, but the exotic materials used would probably make it 10x more expensive.

Last edited by glittersloth (2018-11-04 08:13:23)

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