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#51 2017-06-23 16:18:40

geekosupremo
Member
Registered: 2016-04-27
Posts: 168

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Firefox or Opera are generally my first choice.

I've tried Vivaldi, and ... can't quite get into it. It's a fine browser, but it feels just a little off.

FF and Opera 'feel' like proper browsers. Are they overly interested in how it use the browser ... probably. Although with FF I'm happy to send them more info since they're still the one major browser that is OSS, isn't tied to a larger technology organization, and I want them to make a truly competitive browser. (CSS Grid anyone! glasses )

For those who worry about such things, it may be useful to know that the Opera company, is partly owned by a consortium of Chinese companies. The majority of the company is still part of the original but just a point of interest. Thus far it doesn't seem that the consortium is interested in more than having a diversified revenue stream, although who knows if/when that will change.

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#52 2017-06-23 17:06:57

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,319

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Opera CEO Lars Boilesen says
"we believe that the new deal is very good for Opera employees and Opera shareholders."

Let me fix that for you Lars:

Opera CEO Lars Boilesen wanted to say
"we believe that the new deal is very good for myself and 560 Opera employees and of course the Opera shareholders.  The other 1,109 employees we're not so sure about, and quite frankly ... well, $600 million you know.."

sad  1,109 people possibly out of work so the rich can get richer.

Oh I use FF and Pale Moon


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#53 2017-06-30 15:33:43

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

martix wrote:
Steve wrote:

^^ martix looks like ungoogled chromium is available for stretch.

https://ungoogled-software.github.io/un … -binaries/


Oh, that's great news!!! Thanks! After upgrading the system, that will be the first .deb file for me to check it out.


Well, hmmm, naive me...  neutral  I wrote ".deb file". Actually there are 7 (seven!) .deb files. Am I supposed to install them one by one? I just could not find any helpful install instructions...

Edit: There are actually five .deb files. In the end I downloaded them. The only one I could install via gdebi was chromium-shell. Chromium_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64 gave me an error message: Conflicts with the installed package libnettle4.

I tried to remove this package, but it is something crucial, would have removed 66 other package, so I just left it.

Last edited by martix (2017-07-03 09:49:58)

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#54 2017-07-24 21:12:44

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

^Well, in the end I managed to install Eloston / Ungoogled Chromium! Actually it will appear in the menu as Chromium, so there is no sign of the name Eloston but it definitely works (if I'm not mistaken extensions have to be downloaded manually).

As I was not the only one struggling with the installation process I tried to make a "one-liner". wget and gdebi have to be installed.

The following should create a folder called "src", cd into it, download all the necessary .deb files from the site above and install them via gdebi (Edit: As stated above these are packages for Stretch):

mkdir ~/src && cd ~/src && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-widevine_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-shell_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-l10n_58.0.3029.110-1_all.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-driver_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-driver_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-widevine_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-l10n_58.0.3029.110-1_all.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-shell_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb

Could somebody please comment on it whether it works? As far as I tried those commands step by step they did work.

And there is one more thing: If there is a system upgrade, it'll try to upgrade those packages too as they are not the latest ones. In order to avoid it simply use the following command:

sudo apt-mark hold chromium chromium-driver chromium-l10n chromium-shell

One step towards degooglified internet...

Last edited by martix (2017-07-24 23:36:17)

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#55 2017-07-25 14:43:41

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 211

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

I'll just say I've been with the Firefox series ever since it started. I'm now on 56.0a1 Nightly.

I have tried Chrome and Chromium several times. I just don't like it. It may be better and/or faster, but it is annoying to me.

Tim

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#56 2017-07-26 09:11:01

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,748

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Slither with chrome, everything else with firefox, some lynx for scripting.

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#57 2017-07-26 12:52:11

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Any opinions on Waterfox?

If you have not heard of it before (like me), it's not a joke. This browser really exists (and even runs on linux).

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#58 2017-07-26 13:04:43

Steve
Member
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 642

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

^uses ecosia search engine, different, never heard of it before but apparently its a search engine that helps to plant trees?

https://info.ecosia.org/about

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#59 2017-07-26 13:33:52

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Ecosia is the default search engine in Vivaldi as well.

There is really not a shortage of browsers on this planet. I'm still unsure about the best choice (which would be still only a base as using the right add-ons is also imporant).

Maybe the best option is to have them all.   monkey

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#60 2017-08-03 19:36:09

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

DeepDayze wrote:

Browser wars on Linux are just as interesting as on Windows. Remember the big Netscape vs Internet Explorer battle back in the old days of Windows 95/98?

Firefox is about to fight back! Although I have to say that I consider it as a lost battle for Mozilla... They will have a niche, but Chrom/Chromium will have the majority of the browser market for quite some time I guess...

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#61 2017-08-03 20:19:45

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,319

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

I'm so crazy I like it.  big_smile
2017-08-03_171656_Scrot11.th.jpg
FireFox's fight might do better in the Linux world though.

EDIT:  But here's the thing, do we really trust any browser today?

Last edited by Sector11 (2017-08-03 20:20:34)


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#62 2017-08-21 10:57:56

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Interesting stuff Martix. Not sure what the end result will be. Kinda cheesy imo to macho-up the FF mascot but Mozilla's been in the browser game a long time and somebody felt it serves some purpose.

Yeah Mozilla has been proposing some radical changes, multithread, upgraded rendering engine this and that.

Think Goog making Chrome default in Android was brilliant on their part. Think the Fox has an uphill battle but definitely hope it stays around and pushes on.

Google just has so much networking clout it boggles my mind. A lot of advantages they can leverage on the backend that Mozilla may not be able to match.

Think CDN's everywhere, compression and minification servers (which Opera offers to whatever extent/form.)

Have massive respect for Goog Inc's tech and marketing savvy. Guessing they have some of the worlds top talent on staff.

Not to mention way more aggressive ootb configs and rendering tricks. Been griping for a long time how conserative Mozilla is in this regard.

They leave much to the enduser to tweak, I believe too much honestly. Though it's not my call.

Agree w the nixer who said guessing FF will always keep a place among the opensource community. Have been using it for going on 16yrs and could still learn tonnes about tweaking it.

A million about:config tweaks I've yet to explore, lotsa potential, not enough time. Cant see ever not having FF onboard, shrugs.

Heya Sector, yeah agree with you, hard to trust anything out there in the wild on the webz but honestly consider it a moot point. Just too many ways, too many people can track someone online.

Have long since come to consider the internet like being in public. Not that there's a shortage of ways to remain anonymous either. Only believe it's impractical to go through the trouble for everyday computing.

If someone is up to no good for a no good or even no good for a good cause, yep by all means they may want to cover their butt/tracks. However I still don't care if big brother, the kgb or anyone else knows I occasionally visit naughtynuns.com tongue.

Also heya fellow nixers, haven't been on in awhile. Hope you guys/gals are doing well.

Vll!

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#63 2017-08-22 00:06:49

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

MsMattie wrote:

* Seamonkey - I don't use the browser but this package has Komposer, which is a WYSIWYG html editor which comes in handy for rudimentary web pages that are so big it helps to visually see what you are doing rather then hunting through a swarm of code.

One of the reasons Seamonkey my second-choice browser after Opera, as for Chrom[ending] .. well lets's just say that on Windows.. I'll use Edge, or even IE before I'll consider Tarnishium...  I mean, i hate systemd, but will use it, as I will use Win 10, the way Chrome has been pushed like a VIRUS,  or other bundleware, I've set a GPO in my active directory to prevent installs of it.

As for the OP saying they hear Midori was insecure, I recon the biggest part of that is Debian refusing to keep up with upstream for either it *or* webkit.  It's probably way more secure in a rolling distro.

I Just wish there were more *actually workable* choices on Debian than geko blink or webkit, there *are others, but sadly none of them work well enough to use as a daily driver..   

I've some very old hardware that will not run anything blink or webkit powered.. and firefox is so slow I've been tempted to issue

wine iexplore.exe

just to see if it's faster.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#64 2017-08-22 00:25:02

KrunchTime
Member
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 857

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

I've some very old hardware that will not run anything blink or webkit powered.. and firefox is so slow I've been tempted to issue

wine iexplore.exe

just to see if it's faster.

I love it... lol

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#65 2017-08-22 01:05:20

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

That pushed me to try it, result

Could not load wine-gecko. HTML rendering will be disabled
err:mshtml:HTMLDocument_Create Failed to init Gecko, returning CLASS_E_CLASSNOTAVAILABLE

Which renders it as unuseful as Chromium or Midori, since netsurf also has problems, that leaves me with:
x-www-browser == dillo

Oh well....


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#66 2017-08-22 09:32:04

Naik
Member
From: Lipsia
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 153

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

martix wrote:

The following should create a folder called "src", cd into it, download all the necessary .deb files from the site above and install them via gdebi (Edit: As stated above these are packages for Stretch):

mkdir ~/src && cd ~/src && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-widevine_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-shell_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-l10n_58.0.3029.110-1_all.deb && wget https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/releases/download/58.0.3029.110-1/chromium-driver_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-driver_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-widevine_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-l10n_58.0.3029.110-1_all.deb && sudo gdebi chromium-shell_58.0.3029.110-1_amd64.deb

Could somebody please comment on it whether it works? As far as I tried those commands step by step they did work.

I did and it works. Chromium it self is in the repos and version 60.0.3112.72-1 by now (testing/unstable) so holding the package is needed here too, which also works like you suggested. Nice work! Thank you!

naik --greetz


"Kaum macht [Mensch]* es richtig, funktioniert es sofort!"
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#67 2017-08-22 11:48:32

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

^Great, thank you for trying it out! For me Eloston/Ungoogled Chromium works better than expected. Without all the google=evil-junk, webrtc, etc. it's really great. I should've added a hint regarding installing add-ons. It's fairly easy. I'd suggest to make a bookmark for (and check Menu/Bookmarks/Show bookmarks bar):

chrome://extensions/

and this link:

https://clients2.google.com/service/update2/crx?response=redirect&prodversion=48.0&x=id%3D[EXTENSION_ID]%26installsource%3Dondemand%26uc

There is [EXTENSION_ID] in the link, which has to be replaced. Let's say we want to install ublock Origin. It is in the Chrome Web Store:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm

It's not even needed to open that page, as after a search for it via startpage like "chrome ublock origin" it will show the link -> right-click on it,"copy link address" or "copy link location". Now we need the ID for the add-on, which is the last part of the link: cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm   

Copy this ID-part, click the bookmark for the first link, select the part [EXTENSION_ID], replace it (paste) by the ID. Hit Enter to load the link, which will download a .crx file (shown on the bottom of the page). Click the bookmark for the extensions-page and simply drag-and-drop the downloaded file there, which will install the add-on.

There are other ways to do it, but this way is easy enough.

Edit I almost forgot: It works well with Firetools! Browsing in a sandbox is always a good idea.


Bearded_Blunder wrote:

Which renders it as unuseful as Chromium or Midori, since netsurf also has problems, that leaves me with:
x-www-browser == dillo

Oh well....

What about Qupzilla?

Last edited by martix (2017-08-22 12:02:50)

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#68 2017-09-02 23:33:05

stevep
MX Linux Developer
Registered: 2016-08-08
Posts: 366

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Speaking of Qupzilla, it's changed its name to Falkon to mark its move to the KDE project, though it still will be a strictly Qt 5 browser.

For those with really old hardware, I just added a "palemoon-nonsse2" package to my OBS palemoon repo which won't require SSE 2 support in the CPU.  It will conflict with and replace the regular palemoon package, but I haven't rebuilt palemoon yet to have it do the same with the new variant.

The Iridium browser seems to be Chromium, but with as many privacy settings set as max as they can.  I built packages for MX on my own laptop, but it needs too much RAM to compile for the OBS to handle.

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#69 2017-11-14 22:41:57

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Just a note: Eloston/Ungoogled Chromium 62 is coming soon. And I'm looking forward to testing the Basilisk browser.

There is something I couldn't figure out: I have various add-ons on Chromium, like
- cookie cleaner,
- cache cleaner,
- browser fingerprinting protection.

Let's say I visited the Manchester United site on facebook - facebook.com/ManU. I cleaned the cookies and cache, shutdown the machine. Next time using a search engine with "ManU facebook" it shows various results and of course also facebook.com/ManU. <- This link has a different - darker - color, indicating that I already visited that website.

How does the search engine know that the site was visited by me earlier? Where is that info stored?

Edit: OK, I think I got it now. The info is coming from History! Wasn't there something a couple of years ago that websites should not be able to check a user's history in browsers? I'm a bit surprised that for a website checking History in a browser is available (at least it is in Chromium).

Last edited by martix (2017-11-14 23:23:10)

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#70 2017-11-15 00:00:19

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Thanks everyone for the replies and info provided. There's this Quantum thing on the horizon of Firefox. Played with it and not at all liking it. Though it's new territory and don't doubt it'll get better and can be tweaked to whatever extent. Personally going to hold off for awhile and keep the latest version v56.0.2 for awhile.

Been meaning to push the envelope, a metric gazillion tweaks yet to bother messing with and in my really limited sidy-by-side in current FF vs FF-beta aka: Quantum, the old fox is only a tiny bit slower in terms of browsing speed. While MUCH less intensive when considering system overhead. Hope it ends up working out for Mozilla and Firefox fans.

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#71 2017-11-15 01:04:35

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,304
Website

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

martix wrote:

Next time using a search engine with "ManU facebook" it shows various results and of course also facebook.com/ManU. <- This link has a different - darker - color, indicating that I already visited that website.

How does the search engine know that the site was visited by me earlier? Where is that info stored?

Edit: OK, I think I got it now. The info is coming from History! Wasn't there something a couple of years ago that websites should not be able to check a user's history in browsers? I'm a bit surprised that for a website checking History in a browser is available (at least it is in Chromium).

The website doesn't have to know about your history. The browser is almost certainly recolouring previously visited links by itself, just based on whether they are listed in the History or not.

That said, there has been (and may still be) an issue with css rules that a website might set. It might choose, for example, a custom image as background for visited links. While the browser is the one that knows about the History, if it then chooses the css-selected background image for "visited links", then it might have to send the website a request to download that image. Malicious sites can set individually named images for each link eg img-www_somesite_com-visited.png so just by requesting that image your browser tells the site that you've visited that link.

This did come up a few years ago, but I don't remember if Firefox (or others) implemented a way of blocking it (eg just by downloading all the images in advance). The general advice at that time was either to disable History completely, or set it to remember for only a short time.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#72 2017-11-15 07:06:21

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

martix wrote:

Let's say I visited the Manchester United site on facebook - facebook.com/ManU. I cleaned the cookies and cache, shutdown the machine. Next time using a search engine with "ManU facebook" it shows various results and of course also facebook.com/ManU. <- This link has a different - darker - color, indicating that I already visited that website.

Have you considered visiting a better pagemonkey


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

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#73 2017-11-15 13:11:59

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

johnraff wrote:

The browser is almost certainly recolouring previously visited links by itself, just based on whether they are listed in the History or not.

I see, thank you for the explanation. That was a nasty way of finding out user's browsing history with those background files... It's a different method, but e.g. facebook is still tracking user's browsing history after they logged out (and did not take any protecting steps). I'm also wondering if websites could e.g. check on user's bookmarks? These are often things someone would not think about (just like websites checking the battery level through the browser), but there are often smart and not really scrupulous companies building certain tools around them.


@HoaS ManU was just for an example's sake, I don't have strong feelings about them. But there is one and  only !

Last edited by martix (2017-11-15 13:27:04)

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#74 2017-11-16 03:17:30

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,304
Website

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

martix wrote:

I'm also wondering if websites could e.g. check on user's bookmarks? These are often things someone would not think about (just like websites checking the battery level through the browser), but there are often smart and not really scrupulous companies building certain tools around them.

Javascript was designed from the start to have very limited access to the system, so battery level sounds out. I'm not sure, however if it can read bookmarks - I would have thought not, but it would take some googling to be sure...


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#75 2017-11-17 18:36:30

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,000

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

Interesting, I had a change of heart and wanted to go ahead and give FF v57 a shot, it's not acting nowhere near as badly as when I tried it not too long ago in beta. Actually quickly warming up to the thing. There's no noscript yet but look's like it's supposed to be coming soon. Though have no idea who the people at that site are, shrugs.

In the meantime found a stand-in, simple push a button to block javascript on x-website, push it again to clear the site. Thing definitely has it's limitations. Installed FF v57 from the LMDE2 repository. Have to admit it's a bit faster than the other/older, not by a mind blowing measure and still fully believe could tweak v56.0.2 to match or would bet exceed it, even if it's not multi-process blahblah. Plenty of tricks up sleeve that I'd never even gotten around to applying. Oh well, actually liking the thing so far. Keeps acting like it is, will have to embrace the new and upgrade the old Firefox. smile

Will be monitoring system stats, stability and other metric's but looks like Mozilla may've taken a step forward here. Yay ! smile

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-17 18:41:48)

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