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#1 2016-06-02 19:13:16

JnvSor
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Registered: 2016-06-02
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Wayland and openbox

This is the year of the wayland desktop!...

*ahem*

I've wanted a wayland version of openbox for ages but I don't have the expertise or time to write one myself. Will bunsen be doing something like this in the (far) future?

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#2 2016-06-02 19:15:08

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Wayland and openbox

Nah, we're going with sway  monkey


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#3 2016-06-02 20:13:54

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
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Re: Wayland and openbox

HEY!  Isn't 'i3' and Apple thing?

Does this mean we're going to iOpenBox?

@JnvSor - are we certain OpenBox will not 'do' wayland?
Or maybe:  YET!  smile


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#4 2016-06-02 20:38:19

Unia
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Re: Wayland and openbox

Porting Openbox to Wayland is akin to starting anew. I doubt its authors are planning it and even if they do, it likely won't be finished within this year.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

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#5 2016-06-02 21:32:16

hhh
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Re: Wayland and openbox

Wayland won't be ready for Prime Time within this year, either.

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#6 2016-06-02 21:52:44

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
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Re: Wayland and openbox

I wonder if for the first year or so when it comes if there will be an option for wayland or X.


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#7 2016-06-02 22:05:53

pvsage
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Re: Wayland and openbox

^ Already is a Wayland option in Unstable with the Gnome desktop.  On my hardware it feels a little sluggish compared to Gnome with X11.


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#8 2016-06-03 06:22:23

earlybird
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Re: Wayland and openbox

JnvSor wrote:

This is the year of the wayland desktop!...

*ahem*

I've wanted a wayland version of openbox for ages but I don't have the expertise or time to write one myself. Will bunsen be doing something like this in the (far) future?

Openbox is a dead project. There is no upstream development. There won't be any native version of OB ported by the main developer.

You need to wait on a Wayland replacement or switch to something that works. As HoaS pointed out, sway is an excellent port (plus some) of the i3 window manager that is pretty much already 100% usable.

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#9 2016-06-03 08:45:09

Hipparkhia
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From: London
Registered: 2016-04-09
Posts: 30

Re: Wayland and openbox

madoromi wrote:

Openbox is a dead project. There is no upstream development. There won't be any native version of OB ported by the main developer.

Sorry if this is going off-topic but is there any upstream development of *box-style window-managers nowadays? Pekwm, perhaps? I fear the day will come when you can't use any of them.....

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#10 2016-06-03 11:58:55

twoion
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Re: Wayland and openbox

Hipparkhia wrote:
madoromi wrote:

Openbox is a dead project. There is no upstream development. There won't be any native version of OB ported by the main developer.

Sorry if this is going off-topic but is there any upstream development of *box-style window-managers nowadays? Pekwm, perhaps? I fear the day will come when you can't use any of them.....

IDK? Seems like there is a blackbox port to Windows :=)

Most of the family is functionally complete as far as primitive window management goes I suppose. When it comes to handling hints and complying with specs like ICCCM and EWMH they mostly do nothing or very little though.

The most "complete" in that regard but still UNIXy window managers are probably those still in development, like awesome and i3, bspwm, herbstluftwm, xmonad, flvwm, etc pp. Accidentally, most of them are tilers and/or focus on especially expressive, powerful and flexible window management capabilities. Makes sense to me because monitors are getting bigger and pure stacking window managers are the most useless thing on earth (IMHO). People end up slapping on tiling-like functionality anyways (KWin tiling scripts, Openbox aerosnap, amethyst and friends for OSX etc pp).

If you want something like Openbox, look at flvwm. It's insanely flexible...it's probably possible to bend it to behave like Openbox when it comes to managing windows....


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#11 2016-06-03 21:24:28

Hipparkhia
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From: London
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Posts: 30

Re: Wayland and openbox

twoion wrote:

IDK? Seems like there is a blackbox port to Windows :=)

Most of the family is functionally complete as far as primitive window management goes I suppose. When it comes to handling hints and complying with specs like ICCCM and EWMH they mostly do nothing or very little though.

The most "complete" in that regard but still UNIXy window managers are probably those still in development, like awesome and i3, bspwm, herbstluftwm, xmonad, flvwm, etc pp. Accidentally, most of them are tilers and/or focus on especially expressive, powerful and flexible window management capabilities. Makes sense to me because monitors are getting bigger and pure stacking window managers are the most useless thing on earth (IMHO). People end up slapping on tiling-like functionality anyways (KWin tiling scripts, Openbox aerosnap, amethyst and friends for OSX etc pp).

If you want something like Openbox, look at flvwm. It's insanely flexible...it's probably possible to bend it to behave like Openbox when it comes to managing windows....

I used to use bblean on Windows XP. It didn't really work on Windows 7, though.

I like Fluxbox and Openbox on Linux but I do wonder whether changes (like Wayland) and lack of development will see them become unusable one day. Which would be sad. Perhaps I will end up with a tiling manager when that happens....

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#12 2016-06-03 22:16:56

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Wayland and openbox

@Hipparkhia -- I wouldn't worry too much, both GNOME and KDE now offer Wayland-based sessions and LXQt isn't far behind.

So I'm sure there will be some lightweight stacking window managers available eventually.

The reference implementation of a Wayland compositor (window manager) is Weston and this is a "stacker" smile

Don't be swayed by my nonsense at the top of the thread big_smile

EDIT: Current list of Wayland WMs here:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wa … top_shells

EDIT2: Scrot of Weston running in BunsenLabs:

2016-06-04-122251_1920x1080_scrot.th.png

As you can see, it looks very similar to the BL desktop glasses

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-06-04 11:24:38)


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#13 2016-06-03 22:54:41

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Wayland and openbox

madoromi wrote:

Openbox is a dead project

I think "feature complete" is a more accurate term for the status of the Openbox project.

I'm sure they would fix any bugs or vulnerabilities so I wouldn't describe it as "dead".

As the last official release was just over a year ago, I think this link is called for:
https://youtu.be/dGFXGwHsD_A?t=52

tongue


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#14 2016-06-04 16:25:27

nore
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Re: Wayland and openbox

twoion wrote:

The most "complete" ... flvwm, etc
If you want something like Openbox, look at flvwm.

Do you mean FVWM or does a window manager called FLVWM exist?

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#15 2016-06-04 17:01:30

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
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Posts: 5,149

Re: Wayland and openbox

^ no wonder I couldn't fine it.  smile


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#16 2016-06-04 22:02:44

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 819

Re: Wayland and openbox

nore wrote:
twoion wrote:

The most "complete" ... flvwm, etc
If you want something like Openbox, look at flvwm.

Do you mean FVWM or does a window manager called FLVWM exist?

There is flwm and the fltk tool kit - default in tinycore linux; I'm assuming that is what he's referring to.

If you want to try a stacking window manager with wayland, you can give Enlightenment a try. It had some stability issues when I tried it a month or two ago - mostly mouse issues, but otherwise not too bad. The enlightenment devs seem pretty committed to wayland.

Last edited by PackRat (2016-06-04 22:27:11)


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#17 2016-06-05 09:02:30

JnvSor
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Registered: 2016-06-02
Posts: 12

Re: Wayland and openbox

How easy is it to install enlightenment's WM on bunsen? How's it's performance compared to OB?

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#18 2016-06-05 10:08:18

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Wayland and openbox

JnvSor wrote:

How easy is it to install enlightenment's WM on bunsen?

Very easy:

sudo apt install e17

How's it's performance compared to OB?

No idea, I don't like desktops that pulsate tongue


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#19 2016-06-05 13:20:06

JnvSor
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Registered: 2016-06-02
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Re: Wayland and openbox

sudo apt install e17

I thought it got wayland support in e19?

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#20 2016-06-05 13:25:37

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Wayland and openbox

JnvSor wrote:

I thought it got wayland support in e19?

I don't know anything about Enlightenment but version e17 seems to be the only one available in the Debian jessie repositories.

Please be sure to read the Don't Break BunsenLabs link in my signature before following any one of the several hundred moronic blog posts on the interweb that claim it is perfectly OK to install Debian testing/unstable programs in a Debian stable system; this is *not* the case and may hose your system completely.

See http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?&t=114130 for more on this.


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#21 2016-06-05 13:33:24

hhh
That's easy!
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Re: Wayland and openbox

See the Enlightenment site for instructions on building the current version on Debian...

https://www.enlightenment.org/distros/debian-start

Current Wayland support in Enlightenment...

https://www.enlightenment.org/about-wayland

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#22 2016-06-05 13:42:40

Unia
Octo-portal-pussy
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 352
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Re: Wayland and openbox

JnvSor wrote:
sudo apt install e17

I thought it got wayland support in e19?

IIRC e17 used to have Wayland support too, but it was removed entirely in order to focus only on e19.

EDIT: Almost correct: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … yland-Temp. e19 used to have it, but it was removed in order to focus only on version 20.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

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#23 2016-06-05 14:22:03

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
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Re: Wayland and openbox

JnvSor wrote:
sudo apt install e17

I thought it got wayland support in e19?

Correct. Wayland support started with E19; I think they are at E21 now.


A thousand miles can lead so many ways,
just to know who is driving what a help it would be
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#24 2016-06-05 14:36:17

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 819

Re: Wayland and openbox

JnvSor wrote:

How easy is it to install enlightenment's WM on bunsen? How's it's performance compared to OB?

Looks to be a bit tricky for Debian stable/Bunsen - see hhh post. You can take a look at installing Sparky Linux (Debian Testing) and get the current version of enlightenment (in their repos) if you're really curious. Their forum is pretty friendly.

It's gotten a lot better as far as stability goes. It's pretty smooth and low on resources if you don't go overboard with the bling. Lowrider uses it all the time and doesn't seem to have issues.

Last edited by PackRat (2016-06-05 14:42:13)


A thousand miles can lead so many ways,
just to know who is driving what a help it would be
        -- John Lodge

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#25 2016-06-05 14:44:08

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,149

Re: Wayland and openbox

A bit off topic but ...

tried:
fvwm and fvwm-crystal - they look OLD to me - something out of the 90's - Win 1 or 2 era

e17 - not so bad ... I could get use to it (I think) if I could figure out how to get rid of those icons on the desktop:
shot_2016_06_05_11_00_21.jpg


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