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#1 2019-10-02 18:58:34

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

Trying to get a little deeper into Linux. Installed Debian netinst bare min with just a prompt. I am building my installation package by package (with Bunsenlabs in mind), understanding each components and how it works. So far so good.

My system has a GeForce 6100 nForce 405 chipset and if I don't install the correct drivers (nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver) it crashes in between usage. An old post of it here (not so important though).

The problem is that this package is not available in buster repo. I tried installing it from stretch repo by adding stretch repo in sources.list, however it gives a lot of unmet dependencies.

toor@debianMSI:~$ sudo apt install nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver : Depends: nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver-libs (= 304.137-5~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed
                              Depends: nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver-bin (= 304.137-5~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed
                              Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-304xx (= 304.137-5~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed
                              Depends: nvidia-legacy-304xx-vdpau-driver (= 304.137-5~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed
                              Depends: nvidia-legacy-304xx-alternative (= 304.137-5~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed
                              Depends: nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-dkms (= 304.137-5~deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed or
                                       nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-304.137
                              Recommends: nvidia-settings-legacy-304xx but it is not going to be installed
                              Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

Tried including those dependencies as well, until they have more dependencies which are "not instalable".

toor@debianMSI:~$ sudo apt install nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver-libs nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver-bin xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-304xx nvidia-legacy-304xx-vdpau-driver nvidia-legacy-304xx-alternative nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-dkms nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-304.137 nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Note, selecting 'nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-dkms' instead of 'nvidia-legacy-304xx-kernel-304.137'
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 nvidia-legacy-304xx-alternative : Depends: glx-alternative-nvidia (>= 0.7) but it is not going to be installed
 xserver-xorg-video-nvidia-legacy-304xx : Depends: xorg-video-abi-23 or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-20 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-19 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-18 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-15 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-14 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-13 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-12 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-11 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-10 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-8 but it is not installable or
                                                   xorg-video-abi-6.0 but it is not installable
                                          Depends: xserver-xorg-core (< 2:1.19.99) but 2:1.20.4-1 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

What would be a sensible thing to do now?


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#2 2019-10-02 19:14:44

brontosaurusrex
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

What does 'nvidia-detect' says?

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#3 2019-10-02 19:49:41

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,098

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

Appears to be in backports

https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … -backports

I've never used backports; enable the repo and install with apt?


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#4 2019-10-03 00:13:38

hhh
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

PackRat wrote:

Appears to be in backports

https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … -backports

I've never used backports; enable the repo and install with apt?

Instructions...

https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/#index2h2

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#5 2019-10-03 03:52:12

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

brontosaurusrex wrote:

What does 'nvidia-detect' says?

toor@debianMSI:~$ nvidia-detect 
Detected NVIDIA GPUs:
00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6100 nForce 405] [10de:03d1] (rev a2)

Checking card:  NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6100 nForce 405] (rev a2)
Your card is only supported by the 304 legacy drivers series, which is only available up to stretch.
PackRat wrote:

Appears to be in backports

https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … -backports

That's stretch backports; shouldn't it be available on buster backports so that other dependent packages are installable?

After adding buster-backports to sources and updating:

toor@debianMSI:~$ sudo apt-get -t buster-backports install nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Package nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver' has no installation candidate

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-03 07:40:30)


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#6 2019-10-03 07:35:53

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

linux_user wrote:
brontosaurusrex wrote:

What does 'nvidia-detect' says?

toor@debianMSI:~$ nvidia-detect
Detected NVIDIA GPUs:
00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6100 nForce 405] [10de:03d1] (rev a2)

Checking card:  NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6100 nForce 405] (rev a2)
Your card is only supported by the 304 legacy drivers series, which is only available up to stretch.

That's the bad news I'm afraid. Your card seems not to be supported in Buster. sad

Maybe there's some way to forward-port the stretch package...


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#7 2019-10-03 08:29:37

linux_user
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Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

johnraff wrote:

That's the bad news I'm afraid. Your card seems not to be supported in Buster. sad

Maybe there's some way to forward-port the stretch package...

Thought so. Weird as well. One of the good points of linux distros was that they support a wide range of hardware, especially older hardware. Why would they remove an existing compatibility/support of an older hardware while rolling out a new version? Or is it nvidia's fault?


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#8 2019-10-03 10:05:05

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,098

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

Sorry, thought I was in the right backports section.

Pretty sure you can get those legacy drivers directly from Nvidia and install them that way. You'll need to install the kernel headers and build-essential files with apt first.

There may be a How To thread for Nvidia drivers in the forum.

Nouveau drivers not working for you?

Last edited by PackRat (2019-10-03 10:06:42)


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#9 2019-10-03 13:33:57

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

^ No apoligies requried smile and thanks for directing me to try the website for drivers.

I found it here https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverR … 3709/en-us. Downloaded it, went to tty1, stopped lightdm.service and tried installing the driver. Of course, it notified me of Nouveau driver conflict and offered to blacklist them. Two files were created,

toor@debianMSI:~$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-installer-disable-nouveau.conf 
# generated by nvidia-installer
blacklist nouveau
options nouveau modeset=0
toor@debianMSI:~$ cat /usr/lib/modprobe.d/nvidia-installer-disable-nouveau.conf 
# generated by nvidia-installer
blacklist nouveau
options nouveau modeset=0

Rebooted the system, logged into tty1, stopped lightdm.service and attempted the installation. However Nouveau was still active.

This was notified by nvidia installer earlier in fact, that the blacklist may not work. Modified the blacklist conf as per the second answer on this, rebooted.

This time something changed, the CUI in the boot process had a higher resolution earlier but now, it had a lower resolution (bigger fonts). The blacklist seem to be working. Back in tty1, stopped lightdm.service and did a sudo update-initramfs -u. This was successful.

Tried nVIDIA driver installation. Now, It throws a warning that,

the path to the 'modprobe' utility reported by '/proc/sys/kernel/modprobe', '/sbin/modprobe', differs from the path determined by 'nvidia-installer', '/user/sbin/modprobe'/ Please verify that '/sbin/modprobe' works correctly and correct the path in '/proc/sys/kernel/modprobe'.

Even if the change the path in /proc/sys/kernet/modprobe to the two files created by the installer - /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-installer-disable-nouveau.conf - I get the same error as above with this location instead of /sbin/modprobe.

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-03 14:02:33)


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#10 2019-10-03 13:43:24

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,098

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

I have not tried this in a while - still have the old Nvidia, but nouveau is fine for anything I'm doing.

I used this tutorial for blacklisting nouveau and installing nvidia. Except that for step 11 you'll be attempting an install of the nvidia package.

Keep in mind that, unless it's changed, you'll have to re-install the nvidia driver with every kernel upgrade. Not too bad with Debian Stable, but if you upgrade to Sid it's rather annoying.

Edit - that tutorial I linked looks like answer #2 which you tried.

Last edited by PackRat (2019-10-03 13:45:53)


You must unlearn what you have learned.
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#11 2019-10-03 14:07:28

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

My previous post was incomplete. I was using the same system to access the forum and was finding it difficult to post tty1 outputs. So thought of using another system. Didn't want to lose whatever I had typed from the first system, so posted it. Thought I'll login from another system and edit it to complete it.

I have edited it since then with some more developments.

PackRat wrote:

I have not tried this in a while - still have the old Nvidia, but nouveau is fine for anything I'm doing.

I used this tutorial for blacklisting nouveau and installing nvidia. Except that for step 11 you'll be attempting an install of the nvidia package.

Keep in mind that, unless it's changed, you'll have to re-install the nvidia driver with every kernel upgrade. Not too bad with Debian Stable, but if you upgrade to Sid it's rather annoying.

Edit - that tutorial I linked looks like answer #2 which you tried.

Nouveau has always been faster but it crashes my system while watching videos or even launching Firefox at times; sometimes while doing some important work. Anyway, thanks for your tutorial link. I will try that and see. The blacklist code seems exactly what I have modified from the answer posted in Ubuntu forum. Let me check the entire steps and processes in your link.

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-03 14:10:41)


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#12 2019-10-03 15:07:52

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

This should come up when you search on the internet for blacklisting nouveau. big_smile Anyway, step 3 and 7 in that tutorial were new. I proceeded as per the tutorial.

The installation did go though it, although with the error "path to modprobe utility..." mentioned in my earlier post. I can't find any nvidia drivers when I do sudo dpkg -l | grep nvidia, I only find the nvidia-detect package.

However when I try to install the downloaded nvidia driver, it warns me that a driver of the same version is already installed.

Trying to complete the driver installation by creating an xorg configuration file.

$ sudo mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
$ sudo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf

The first command was successful (the folder was created). However when I execute the second command (with sudo), I get the error,

-bash: /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf: Permission denied

Very strange.

Update:

I manually created the file using touch command, opened it in nano and entered the following text.

Section "Device"
        Identifier "My GPU"
        Driver "nvidia"

Now I started lightdm.service. No errors are throws. However there is no gui greeter in tty7. I checked the status of lightdm.service and it says

Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Thu 2019-10-03 22:20:15 IST; 3s ago

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-03 16:57:08)


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#13 2019-10-08 16:04:19

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

It was the 20-nvidia.conf file that was stopping lightdm.service from starting up. Not sure why.

After I deleted that file, I could log into GUI. Not sure if the new driver is configured properly as the new desktop only offers a low resolution desktop. So switched back to nouveau.


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#14 2019-10-08 19:07:03

PackRat
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Posts: 1,098

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

Did you archive the 20-nvidia.conf file or just delete it outright? What are the contents of that file if you still have it.

Did you try stopping lightdm.service and logging in with startx?


You must unlearn what you have learned.
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#15 2019-10-09 03:07:07

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,834
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

EDIT sorry for all the Intel/Nvidia confusion.
The Intel file has also been the source of X crashes recently...

Here's the troublesome 20-nvidia.conf 20-intel.conf:

Section "Device"
  Identifier  "Intel Graphics"
  Driver      "intel"
    Option "AccelMethod"      "sna"
    Option "TearFree"         "true"
EndSection

It's now been removed from bunsen-configs.

Last edited by johnraff (2019-10-10 09:37:00)


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#16 2019-10-09 13:43:24

manyroads
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Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 36
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

If you are looking for a very stripped down version of Buster for older PCs, you might try antiX19b3.  I have just gotten BunsenLabs Lithium- experimental to run on that platform. 
For antiX see:
https://antixlinux.com/about/


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau (manyroads)
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."    ---H. L. Mencken
Reg. Linux User #449130 ~ MXLinux, antiX, BunsenLabs, ArchLabs

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#17 2019-10-09 14:57:36

eight.bit.al
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From: The top of the World
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 331

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum


The best is yet to come.

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#18 2019-10-09 16:14:47

linux_user
Member
Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

manyroads wrote:

If you are looking for a very stripped down version of Buster for older PCs, you might try antiX19b3.

Honestly, I am just looking at installing a base system and build it package by package - a good learning experience. I don't mind breaking the OS and reinstalling during the process smile. I decided to go with Debian sinceI have been using BL all these while which is based on Debian.

PackRat wrote:

Did you archive the 20-nvidia.conf file or just delete it outright? What are the contents of that file if you still have it.

I deleted the file and reinstalled the OS infact; now using nouveau. But thank you for asking - I just realized that I missed a line in the 20-nividia.conf file while I was entering the lines manually.  It should be the follows;

Section "Device"
        Identifier "My GPU"
        Driver "nvidia"
EndSection

What I entered is in the above post. I missed the last line (EndSection).

johnraff wrote:

^Here's the troublesome 20-nvidia.conf:

Section "Device"
  Identifier  "Intel Graphics"
  Driver      "intel"
    Option "AccelMethod"      "sna"
    Option "TearFree"         "true"
EndSection

It's now been removed from bunsen-configs.

Since mine is nVidia, I guess I should replace Intel in the above.

PackRat wrote:

Did you try stopping lightdm.service and logging in with startx?

No, I didn't. I wasn't aware of that option to be frank.

====================================================================================================================
Anyway, since I missed a line in the conf file, I will redo it. I'd like to post the steps I'd be following. It would be nice to receive some feedback from you all before I actually execute them.

  1. Download the driver from https://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDo … pe=GeForce

  2. Go to tty1

  3. Stop lightdm and install the driver

  4. Blacklist nouveau and rebuild the kernel as per http://lxle.net/forums/discussion/1457/ … drivers/p1

  5. Create an xorg configuration as per https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 123#p42123

  6. Restart the system

I guess this should  do, won't it?

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-09 16:55:40)


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#19 2019-10-09 17:24:19

PackRat
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

You're using the minimal net install iso, aren't you?

I suggest you postpone installing lightdm until the very end when everything is up and running. Pretty sure the Debian stable version is all good, but I've had trouble with versions from Testing and Sid.

If nothing else, you will learn how to start your X-session and window manager from the command line - pretty easy to do. There are a couple threads in this forum on setting it up.

Once it's all up and running you can install lightdm if you still want to go that route.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
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#20 2019-10-10 00:46:34

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,834
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

linux_user wrote:
johnraff wrote:

^Here's the troublesome 20-nvidiaintel.conf:

Section "Device"
  Identifier  "Intel Graphics"
  Driver      "intel"
    Option "AccelMethod"      "sna"
    Option "TearFree"         "true"
EndSection

It's now been removed from bunsen-configs.

Since mine is nVidia, I guess I should replace Intel in the above.

My humble apologies - I just copied/pasted the filename from this thread without checking properly. (Post now edited.) The file we supplied in bunsen-configs was 20-intel.conf, intended to improve display with Intel GPUs. Nvidia users should just ignore it anyway - any "fixes" for nvidia will be completely different, and likely depend on what driver you are using, and quite possibly unnecessary.

The Intel config snippet was causing no problems up until the recent Debian Buster point release, but we haven't had time to try and pin down what the problem was. It could have been the file was using some old syntax which the latest upgrade no longer supports, or...

Anyway, since it was just a tweak intended to slightly improve rendering we decided to drop it from the package and leave it for users to install manually if they wanted.


John
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#21 2019-10-10 08:08:20

linux_user
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Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

^ @johnraff No apologies required smile I think any system upgrades will cause some packages/settings/configs to break. And Buster has it's own share of these. Part of the system.

PackRat wrote:

You're using the minimal net install iso, aren't you?

Yes I used the minimal net install iso. And then from tty, I install openbox, lightdm and other such packages with the idea of getting it to look like BL. It sort of gives me an idea of how you guys have built BL and what packages make BL BL.

PackRat wrote:

I suggest you postpone installing lightdm until the very end when everything is up and running.

Lightdm is already installed at the moment. Since I am not going to reinstall the OS while installing the nvidia driver, I'll just stop the lightdm service to proceed. If I mess it up and decide to reinstall the OS, I'll try your method - not installing lightdm until the end.

I will be installing the drivers again only by next week. Caught up with some traveling and can't dedicate time for this at the moment.

However, does anyone know if there Debian have a default compositor installed and working if the installation was done by the minimal netinst iso? At start up, my conky appears with a dark background and if I restart conky by executing conky in dmenu/gmrun, the new conky has a transparent background. Compton isn't installed.

Secondly, I noticed that there is a very fast fade in effect while launching windows and main menu in BL. It isn't noticeable until you use a window experience with no animations/effects at all (like Debian base with openbox). I tried looking for that config in autostart and obconf of my BL machine but I couldn't find it. Any idea where I would find the configs?

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-10 08:12:25)


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#22 2019-10-10 09:48:25

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,834
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

linux_user wrote:

However, does anyone know if there Debian have a default compositor installed and working if the installation was done by the minimal netinst iso?

Exactly what the netinst iso gives you depends on what you choose at the end of the install process - when you get offered this or that selection of packages. To install BL you should choose "basic system utilities" (or something like that), which will give you a command-line only system which you can begin to build up on. That will have no X session and of course no compositor.

However, if you choose Gnome or KDE or the like then you'll get whatever compositor that Desktop Environment provides. A lot of other packages will be installed too, and that's definitely not the way to go if you want any kind of minimal system.

Secondly, I noticed that there is a very fast fade in effect while launching windows and main menu in BL. It isn't noticeable until you use a window experience with no animations/effects at all (like Debian base with openbox). I tried looking for that config in autostart and obconf of my BL machine but I couldn't find it. Any idea where I would find the configs?

If you were using openbox on BL then you'd have an option in ~/.config/openbox/bl-rc.xml around line 56:

<animateIconify>yes</animateIconify>

Change that "yes" to "no" to stop the animation.


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#23 2019-10-10 10:31:48

linux_user
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Registered: 2016-11-04
Posts: 360

Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

johnraff wrote:

Exactly what the netinst iso gives you depends on what you choose at the end of the install process - when you get offered this or that selection of packages. To install BL you should choose "basic system utilities" (or something like that), which will give you a command-line only system which you can begin to build up on. That will have no X session and of course no compositor.

I only installed the basic system utilities with no DE. Later, from tty, I installed openbox, lightdm and xfce4. So I guess no compositor is installed.

johnraff wrote:

If you were using openbox on BL then you'd have an option in ~/.config/openbox/bl-rc.xml around line 56:

<animateIconify>yes</animateIconify>

Change that "yes" to "no" to stop the animation.

I have rc.xml and I presume that's what you mean. That line in question seem to be for the animation of the window while maximizing and iconifying. It is already set to 'no'.

What I meant is the animation during opening, closing and toggling (Alt+tab) of windows in the desktop. Although it seems that there is no animation during this, a careful look will reveal that there is a very fast fade in effect to the windows.

Do Alt+Tab and leave only the tab key with the alt key still on. The border of the next corresponding window appears (along with the toggle window with lists of windows to toggle to). Now, carefully look at how that next window appears when you leave the Alt key.  It appears with a very fast fade. I never realized it until few hours back. As I said, only when I felt the snappiness of bare Debian with Openbox, I noticed there is this lag with BL.

Or perhaps, my eyes are playing games. But I would like to know if others notice this.

Last edited by linux_user (2019-10-10 10:45:45)


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#24 2019-10-10 23:29:37

hhh
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

xfce4 has compositing. It's in xfce4 window settings somewhere, a tab that has "enable compositor" or "enable shadows" or something. Wait, I have xfce installed. I'm stupid. One minute...

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#25 2019-10-10 23:33:11

hhh
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Re: Trying Debian Buster Bare Minimum

Settings>Window Manager Tweaks>Compositor tab, you have drop-shadow and window opacity settings there.

The compositing is part of the xfce window manager, though, so if you use xfdesktop but replace xfwm4 with openbox you lose compositing. Use compton if you want a compositor for openbox.

Also, compton has background-blur settings for use with transparency, xfwm4 does not, as far as I know.

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