Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

malm · 2019-02-09 18:48:51

Now now, come on guys. Much nicer if we stay polite.

iMBeCil · 2019-02-09 20:33:59

^Naah, being politely is overrated.

The constructiveness is what people on internet mostly lacks.

Bearded_Blunder · 2019-02-10 06:16:38

ohnonot wrote:

in post #13 i made a constructive addition to your previous post, and yes, not without adding that even so "there's still plenty of good reasons why you shouldn't make it a habit to start graphical apps with superuser privileges."
that's all.

Well I have to disagree with your "constructive" addition saying you don't need a switch which keeps sudo safe from the consequences outlined even if a local administrator has changed the default policy is like telling people they only need to look one direction crossing a one way street. If they take such advice then occasionally someone will get hurt.

You can't rely on defaults which may have been reconfigured, heck if you relied on people having the default Debian desktop you'd be wrong more than 2/3 the time.

So that annoyed me and I possibly overreacted.

Starting graphical apps as root isn't something to do willy-nilly I agree, on the other hand, given a system without policykit I'd rather see someone make a habit of launching synaptic that way than see them not update. Just an example, and I do know users who're scared of using a terminal.

BLizgreat! · 2019-02-10 06:35:20

^Understandable, those terminals with the weird talking cow, always freak me out.

BLizgreat! · 2019-02-13 19:20:56

Was dorking with lxqt-sudo and launched it in terminal, Yep complaints about icon theme not set and missing icon theme etc. So yeah can no doubt polish it's appearance. Still don't view it as important but good to know people can spruce it up if desired.

Bearded_Blunder · 2019-02-13 19:27:22

Fixing those complaints is simple:

~/.config/lxqt/lxqt.conf wrote:

[General]
__userfile__=true
icon_theme=Paper

Doubtless other prettification options avalable

Stops it adding to the debug file beside that one too.

BLizgreat! · 2019-02-14 06:19:39

^Thanks, still somewhat saddened to see gksu on the ropes.

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-13 19:23:13

Update:

In another thread, probably the completely off-topic one. Mentioned that I went ahead and enabled Stretch repo's in Buster and just went ahead and installed the gksu package from it. As a result, gksu/do cmds work as they always did in the OS.

I don need no stinkin pkexec !!! Least not yet anyway.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2019-11-13 19:44:17)

ohnonot · 2019-11-15 06:24:57

It's a little sad that these kind of discussions break out whenever some basic software is getting replaced by the majority of distros.

I don't have any sort of emotional bond to my superuser GUI dialog, and I'm sure people who know more about these matters than I had their reasons for changing things.

clusterF · 2019-11-15 14:46:11

ohnonot wrote:

It's a little sad that these kind of discussions break out whenever some basic software is getting replaced by the majority of distros.
I don't have any sort of emotional bond to my superuser GUI dialog, and I'm sure people who know more about these matters than I had their reasons for changing things.

Intriguing you bring up an emotional response to a computer program in your first sentence then dismiss it with your second sentence??

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 03:15:17

^Yep also got to do it. That's a dang cope out, the "people who know so much more than me, yada, yada". What do YOU know, I'm not interested in what you think people who know, a lot more than you know, as it's clear you can't know that either. Whether they know it or not Ohno and in another thread John-san are friggin quoting something I'd said. Whereas are taking it out of context, in the one which I was applying it to, it's valid. It's this sucker post #11.

Yes Google Inc employs some of the best and most skilled/talented network engineers in the world. They and others did not set out on the task of implementing a new approach to congestion control and addressing short-comings in, or in whichever case spend all the time creating a new one for a specific usage scenario because Cubic is the only thing the world needs. (Google Inc says) Sure ... hey guys, although Cubic is perfect, let's spend 82 thousand bucks ( or 150 or 300k) and devote the time of some of the most talented in the field to fiddle with xyz ok. Yeah we know, absolutely unnecessary, really no point, Cubic is perfection and there couldn't possibly be alternatives and better ways to do xyz. Yep fella's we just have too much money and you guys aren't doing anything important here regarding admin'ing our global network and data centers, so what the hay, go waste some time, spend some of those 10's of billions we rake in yearly, fiddling with congestion control for absolutely no useful reason, that's a direct order.

However what they (previously named BL nixers)are saying is more like, I don't really know anything about this, people who do though yada yada. Did you ever stop and think the higher ups in geekdom know that anything/everything assoc with gnu/Linux and tech is painfully documented, someone can learn how it all works in intimate detail, should they be willing to invest the time/effort in doing so. So these mystic mighty geeks may think, hey all of this is well known, all of this can be config'ed for just about anything a user could possibly ever want to do. Thus whatever they(uber-geekdom)go with, even if it's a config setting from 20+ years ago. They may be thinking the end users of the world would actually be able to learn, gain knowledge and thus know how to config a system in 2019-2020 to be appropriate to their use. In this case that'd be desktop gnu/Linux and things in terms of technology have changed a bit since 1995.

Anyway had to gripe about this. I don't mind opposing views but do prefer when those opposed to something actually know what they're talking about, not reference some unknown expert and imply that those people support their views, as again ... what do YOU know, who the hell are these Nix-ninja techno-experts you're deferring to ? I have my reasons for opting to keep using gksu, don't particularly care if anyone else does so. Though am noting that it's an option for those who do wish it so and it's overall good to know that things can be snagged from previous EOL repo's or archives etc blahblahblah. Also really anal nixers might think hey, I want it the way it was and I bet, hmmmmm. They might be reassured to see another nixer online 100% confirm it's working on xyz-distro release.

It's gnu/Linux, an almost infinite way to config it, according to each persons preferences and goals. Only time I'd waste my babble typing objection to something is if it's clearly a really bad idea from a technical perspective. That is going to cause issues (potentially serious one's) in terms of performance, stability, security etc etc. Otherwise don't care how someone goes about config'ing their installs. Many times don't even bother then, even if I know what they're doing is a horrible idea or foolish way to go about something. Depends on the person and context. Again, much of tech is black/white on the bottomline, it's not what someone thinks, they can KNOW, provided they invest the time and effort.

More on-topic babble: I have invested a tad of time in looking over the proposed changes, polkit, policy files, pkexec and admin:/// etc etc. and my feelings and findings on it at this point is that I don't like it and feel it's somewhat tarded. Thus am exploring alternatives and ways to config things as I prefer, while I digest the changes and thus learn how to re-config or control them in such a way as fits my preferences and needs. It's friggin gnu/Linux people, if you don't know about something, means you haven't spent the time/effort required. If you prefer is thusly great, if I prefer it another ... also great (for me.) Though do strongly feel what someone thinks, is obviously based on what they/you know, I don't come to a place to talk to someone's imaginary friends, to pointlessly debate with folks whose statements make it plain they don't really know much about a topic of discussion etc. Will readily admit when I'm unsure of something and considering the scope of a subject like gnu/Linux and tech, I'm going to be an ever-noob, even if I spend the remainder of my life 24/7 studying it. Will die, with much still to learn. Shrugs... end epic rant, just sayin.

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 05:09:31

Epic rant cont: Lol ...

If the avg nixer thinks all these changes are being implemented with their/our best interest in mind, they really need to get their thinkers tuned up or put them babies in the shop or something. Redhat(now IBM), Google Inc, sheesh even M$ do not feel the sun rises and sets on the tiny amount of desktop nixers. The changes they implement meet their agenda, serve their interests. Am sure one of the thousands upon thousands of techies they employ collectively is waking up at 2:16am, feverishly jotting down some techie-tidbit and the whole while they're doing so, thinking hey that anon @Ohnonot guy I saw one time on a gnu/Linux forum is gonna luv this !!!

They've pretty much thrown aside the hey this is a community driven deal, this is all about the everywo/man, tech for all of humanity charade and it's now MUCH more openly an = This is getting implemented, this is being changed, you can and will accept it OR go use another platform, we really don't care what you think, prefer etc etc and any other associated nonsense, this is how it's going to be. END OF STORY. So many people may go, hmmmmm, looks like I got choices here.

a) Use what they allow me to, as is

or

b) Switch back to window$ or buy a Mac/OSX.

However people empowered with a more creative mind, abstract and critical thinking abilities may also go, hmmmmm. Nah ... I'm going to go with option c) and door number 3 !!! I'll gain enough know-how, knowledge and skills to figure out how things work. How to reconfig or fiddle enough with and all the alternatives which are available to me and set things up to be to my liking instead. Despite what any upstream Corp-overlords may dictate ! That's what real nixers do fellows.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2019-11-16 05:11:55)

johnraff · 2019-11-16 06:30:07

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=892768

gksu has been deprecated for years. The intent of gksu is to allow
running apps with elevated privileges but the recommended way to do
that is for the app developer to use PolicyKit to request elevated
privileges for the specific actions that need done instead of for the
whole app to run as root.

Yeh even I understand that, and can see that it's safer not to give a whole - last updated in 2010 - GUI root privileges, but only to the actual action you want to do.

Yes, any clever user is free to grab an old gksu and go on using it. Linux is about choice.

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 08:51:52

Yep such has been noted by myself and others throughout this thread dude. Narrow minded people tend to see "security issue" plop, into the trash with this unmaintained software. Which incidentally they've been using since 2010 without the slightest problem ever occuring on their system(s). Anyway, it's one alternative of course are others some also mentioned throughout this thread. Explored using lxqt-sudo, it's available in Buster's repo's and it wanted to install 114 packages onto my install. NOPE ! Overwhelming majority never even bothered looking beyond the trigger word, security issue to find out what that actually meant, I DID, lol. I don't use virtualbox anyway, were going to use VM's will be Kvm = an actual real-full open source hypervisor. Also this was some "third party" virtualbox entension pack. If someone is running around installing software from anywhere, everywhere onto their OS's. They've got heckuva lot bigger security problems than gksu fellows.

Such folks need foolproof gnu/Linux. They go to do something and the app (or terminal)says, no no no dummy, that's stupid, I'm not allowing you to do it. Locking computer for 10mins, lockdown in 5, 4, now go stand in the corner and think about what you've done, 3, 2 ... 1." Again, folks don't bother even looking into polkit and policy files to any extent. How it works, what it does etc etc. Upstream says this is what we're going to use, this is what they're going to use and mostly never bother learning much about. Beyond what they absolutely have to, shrugs.

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 12:56:11

Gotta do it cause it's funny.

Some random nixer ( probably a buntite)comes across some anon ppa or software repository. Finds one called ...
ROOTKIT_ULTImaTe_sYS_DEsTr0yER.deb (uploaded by ImmA_l33t_blkHAt.)
Oh cool, this thing destroys rootkits, better download and install this ASAP !

Good thing they made Gdebi harder to launch with priv's in some stuff eh ? This guy might've been in trouble otherwise. Whew that was close.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2019-11-16 12:58:03)

clusterF · 2019-11-16 13:31:25

BLizgreat! wrote:

Gotta do it cause it's funny.
Some random nixer ( probably a buntite)comes across some anon ppa or software repository. Finds one called ...
ROOTKIT_ULTImaTe_sYS_DEsTr0yER.deb (uploaded by ImmA_l33t_blkHAt.)
Oh cool, this thing destroys rootkits, better download and install this ASAP !
Good thing they made Gdebi harder to launch with priv's in some stuff eh ? This guy might've been in trouble otherwise. Whew that was close.

That is the risk when installing unsigned packages from non trusted sources. First rule of thumb should be if it is not in the debian repos, why not? Then investigate upstream sources if any.

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 13:51:41

^ Correcto ... though anyone who's lived more than a few years, won't be surprised how uncommon, common sense really is.

Such a person and yep, there's a shocking number of them IRL probably already launches everything with sudo anyway, thus any safeguards, any related pkgs etc are mostly irrelevant regardless. The way polkit and the pkexec etc nonsense is/has been implemented in many things is just another symptom of what I'd been griping about in another thread. To radically change things like this vs what's long been used and is preferred by many nixers, desktop or otherwise, is just another sign of upstream going hey, screw you people. It's this way now, deal with it.

The amount of doc's, how-to's etc which whatever nixers put up regarding many a subject and the effort/time and energy which it represents just wiped away like so much trash. Really does make it plain which way the winds blowing folks. Certainly it could've been handled in a more seamless manner but again nope, we're/you're being told in no uncertain terms where we stand fellows. Debian usually moves at about the pace of a glacier, well except when things get rammed down their throat by upstream ie: Systemd.

For me I like gksu, think it was all of 1 pkg vs lxqt-sudo, wanted 114 pkgs and though I could alias the thing, typing lxqt-sudo kinda sucks too. Without completely locking things down and stripping peeps of admin powers, no OS can be rendered secure from a tarded or incompetent admin.

Many moves being made are certainly more appropriate to gnu/Nix in a enterprise, commercial setting though. Desktop gnu/Linux users are a far distant concern (if any at all)to the folks running the show upstream and have been for a very long time.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2019-11-16 13:58:38)

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 14:13:48

Ah no worries fellows, am not saying sky is falling, am not advocating the use of gksu so much either. Will eventually grok polkit + pkexec to a point where I likely don't care. Until then will continue to do as I like on my install(s.) Also wondering if they(Redhat) + others are going to do with this polkit-etc deal and Wayland what they did with systemd. I like systemd, are some good technical reasons for the thing as far as I'm able to understand and it's got some impressive features. Though the sure guys, there's alternatives (oh yeah name such which isn't a real pita to use?), don't worry we're gonna be backwards compatible for a long, long time.

From what I understand unless rewritten Openbox isn't going to work in Wayland, least not without the stupid Xwayland thingy. Again, wondering just how long that'll stay supported or choosing to use Xorg instead. Feature creep, hard depends etc etc ? As with systemd ? I've still got my sky is falling backup plan already laid out. Just in case.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2019-11-16 14:14:46)

clusterF · 2019-11-16 14:31:53

BLizgreat! wrote:

Desktop gnu/Linux users are a far distant concern (if any at all)to the folks running the show upstream and have been for a very long time.

The average joe who runs a unix desktop for a bit of browsing and such is of no consequence to a multi tiered silicon valley tech giant with server farms and ai research facilities, then again it is probably in there best interest to placate such users to pull data from them. It seems the ultimate goal for modern computing is to in some ways create consumers first through data manipulation and then engineer education to further the goal of consumerism. Granted modern computing is not all this but a good portion today is about selling you the product at all costs. I digress, im getting OT here.

BLizgreat! · 2019-11-16 14:55:29

Lmao ... yep, if you (or I) keep it up, let alone if others join in gonna have to change the title of this thing. To at least have some warning. ie: Don't enter thread without aluminum foil head-gear.

Everybody knows aluminum is much superior to tin in blocking out Corp-alien overlords mind probes and memory tappers. Hey ... it's a FACT. Google it people ! Being a dork, don't want to even get off on this train(wreck) of thought. No longer have the energy or desire to drone on about this type of thing. Live long enough, ya learn resistance is futile and when life breaks your spirit, trods all ova ya dreams, hey ya just shrug it off and keep shuffling, one day closer to death. Though ya don't necessarily crap on everyone around you's dreams. Yeah, yeah ... sure kid, you can grow up to be president, yeppers, sky's the limit, blahblahblah. LMFAO !!!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2019-11-16 14:56:16)

#21 2019-02-09 18:48:51

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#22 2019-02-09 20:33:59

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#23 2019-02-10 06:16:38

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#24 2019-02-10 06:35:20

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#25 2019-02-13 19:20:56

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#26 2019-02-13 19:27:22

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#27 2019-02-14 06:19:39

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#28 2019-11-13 19:23:13

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#29 2019-11-15 06:24:57

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#30 2019-11-15 14:46:11

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#31 2019-11-16 03:15:17

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#32 2019-11-16 05:09:31

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#33 2019-11-16 06:30:07

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#34 2019-11-16 08:51:52

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#35 2019-11-16 12:56:11

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#36 2019-11-16 13:31:25

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#37 2019-11-16 13:51:41

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#38 2019-11-16 14:13:48

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#39 2019-11-16 14:31:53

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

#40 2019-11-16 14:55:29

Re: Removal of gksu/gksudo ... general discussion.

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