BunsenLabs Lithium will stay with X

johnraff · 2018-09-03 02:12:08

The developer team have been discussing the eventual demise of X and move to Wayland, and have decided that for the upcoming BunsenLabs "Lithium" release the best path will be to continue using the current X+openbox+compton for our desktop.

Debian can be expected to support this framework for some time to come, certainly for the lifetime of the "Buster" release, on which "Lithium" will be based.

Meanwhile, we will continue to explore the possibilities for future BunsenLabs desktops. Please watch the "Development & Suggestions" forum section for further updates.

DeepDayze · 2018-09-03 02:26:11

At some point why not provide some test Wayland builds so adventurous users can test-drive Wayland.

johnraff · 2018-09-03 03:13:59

^Good idea.

Of course, feedback from users, either after or even before we put out any BL builds, will be very useful.

DeepDayze · 2018-09-03 03:18:45

johnraff wrote:

^Good idea.
Of course, feedback from users, either after or even before we put out any BL builds, will be very useful.

True, even with Wayland still quite rough around the edges and not really ready for prime time test builds can be useful in finding bugs and be helpful in generating bug reports to the Wayland developers as well as providing info to the BL team.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2018-09-03 03:19:40)

brontosaurusrex · 2018-09-03 06:55:52

Any real-world benchmarks where wayland is significantly faster that X stuff?

zumbi · 2018-09-03 11:16:59

brontosaurusrex wrote:

Any real-world benchmarks where wayland is significantly faster that X stuff?

Wayland vs X11 on ARM Mali GPU

nobody · 2018-09-03 20:09:14

zumbi wrote:

brontosaurusrex wrote:
Any real-world benchmarks where wayland is significantly faster that X stuff?
Wayland vs X11 on ARM Mali GPU

THis is mostly because the closed-source drivers for this kind of GPUs are optimized for EGL, isn't it?

ohnonot · 2018-09-04 05:45:41

johnraff wrote:

Debian can be expected to support this framework for some time to come, certainly for the lifetime of the "Buster" release, on which "Lithium" will be based.

this is the crucial point imo.
does this also mean that debian buster will default to Xorg?

johnraff · 2018-09-04 06:41:14

^Debian does not default to any window managing system - that's up to the individual desktops to decide. I'm pretty sure that XFCE, for example, won't be moving to Wayland all that soon, but Gnome already has, and KDE following (according to a quick bit of websearching).

hhh · 2018-09-04 19:45:54

Can confirm that GNOME on sid/testing defaults to Wayland and is surprisingly smooth, but not quite there still depending on hardware (my impression of it, at least). KDE Plasma 5.13 on sid/testing doesn't even have a Wayland session available from the login options, so maybe they'll hold off on full-Wayland a while longer.

In 2018, never go full-Wayland. :monkey:

johnraff · 2018-09-05 00:31:15

johnraff wrote:

Debian does not default to any window managing system - that's up to the individual desktops to decide.

What I was forgetting here is that Debian by default does install a desktop. Whether they've yet chosen one for Buster or not I don't know, but if they choose Gnome it might well mean Wayland.

ohnonot · 2018-09-05 06:26:04

johnraff wrote:

^Debian does not default to any window managing system - that's up to the individual desktops to decide. I'm pretty sure that XFCE, for example, won't be moving to Wayland all that soon, but Gnome already has, and KDE following (according to a quick bit of websearching).

so the DE decides whether it uses Xorg or Wayland, and debian (already, fully) supports both options?

johnraff · 2018-09-05 08:26:56

Debian supports X, of course, and Wayland to whatever extent the Wayland developers and maintainers have reached. But if Debian chose a Wayland-dependent desktop by default it would indicate some confidence I suppose.

hhh · 2018-09-05 21:44:36

September, last year, though it could change back before the release...
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= … ME-Wayland

Note that the change-log link in the article is dead, so no info there.

obscurant · 2018-09-05 23:22:58

Relieved. I'm not ready or willing to lose pekwm.

hhh · 2018-09-05 23:58:13

Well, that's it in a nutshell. The old Box WMs haven't been ported, and Wayland is a bit premature (older hardware!). Let's stay with X and see what happens 3 years from now.

johnraff · 2018-09-06 01:37:49

Gnome looks like being the only DE to use Wayland in Buster.

Anyway, Debian's "default desktop" only means which one the Debian Installer chooses. In the netinstall case, it's just the top choice in the list of DEs that appears. Do all that many people install the default Debian desktop anyway? I tend to think not.

So "default in Debian" really means very little in this case.
Reddit of a year ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comment … s_default/

I think X will continue to be well supported as long as there is a significant number of apps and users that want it. (This is Big D's advantage over the "bleeding edge" distros.) For Buster certainly, Bullseye and after that too IMO.

For BunsenLabs it won't be a question of being forced to move to Wayland, but when we feel it's the right time.

or1o9 · 2018-09-06 08:56:39

Sounds like honey to my tongue. Thanks for info.

Bearded_Blunder · 2018-12-29 05:00:08

johnraff wrote:

Anyway, Debian's "default desktop" only means which one the Debian Installer chooses. In the netinstall case, it's just the top choice in the list of DEs that appears. Do all that many people install the default Debian desktop anyway? I tend to think not.

That'd be because the default is the worst one in the list, Gnome is truly horrid in the current incarnation. Users know it and use the option to pick another.

DeepDayze · 2018-12-29 14:49:20

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

johnraff wrote:
Anyway, Debian's "default desktop" only means which one the Debian Installer chooses. In the netinstall case, it's just the top choice in the list of DEs that appears. Do all that many people install the default Debian desktop anyway? I tend to think not.
That'd be because the default is the worst one in the list, Gnome is truly horrid in the current incarnation. Users know it and use the option to pick another.

That is why I myself choose no desktop when it comes to Debian netinstalls. I also find Gnome to be rather ugly and KDE standard install to be a little better. Openbox has been my go to for ages now.

#1 2018-09-03 02:12:08

BunsenLabs Lithium will stay with X

#2 2018-09-03 02:26:11

Re: BunsenLabs Lithium will stay with X

#3 2018-09-03 03:13:59

Re: BunsenLabs Lithium will stay with X

#4 2018-09-03 03:18:45

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#5 2018-09-03 06:55:52

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#6 2018-09-03 11:16:59

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#7 2018-09-03 20:09:14

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#8 2018-09-04 05:45:41

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#9 2018-09-04 06:41:14

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#10 2018-09-04 19:45:54

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#12 2018-09-05 06:26:04

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#14 2018-09-05 21:44:36

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#15 2018-09-05 23:22:58

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#16 2018-09-05 23:58:13

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#17 2018-09-06 01:37:49

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#18 2018-09-06 08:56:39

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#19 2018-12-29 05:00:08

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#20 2018-12-29 14:49:20

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