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#51 2018-04-21 17:31:51

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

DeepDayze wrote:

a real linux phone (not Android), but with a way to install and run Android apps on top. Someday that may happen I hope smile

Thinking about it again, UBports (which is more or less Ubuntu) with anbox is similar. SailfishOS (which is basically also linux) is doing something like that too (running android apps on top of a linux system). All in all my favorite project is postmarketOS, which is based on Alpine (but it's in development). Interesting to notice that Alpine is using ash (Almquist Shell) while Android switched around 4.0 from ash to mksh. Let's not forget Librem 5. Hopefully it will turn out to be a great phone.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The lead dev of this project was the maintainer for Arch Linux's linux-hardened kernel version (when it was in [Community]) and is also a regular contributor to the KSPP so I would say that is a good one glasses

That's surely one of the best roms available. Installing android stuff can be a problem though: Even apps like Signal use google services and the whole android ecosystem is similar to the one created by apple (walled garden). Linux folks are far behind, but it's getting better now.

Last edited by martix (2018-04-21 17:33:13)

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#52 2018-04-22 09:12:06

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

something like CopperheadOS, ParanoidAndroid, etc.

i think copperheados was one of those names i couldn't remember. thanks for that.
paranoidandroid - their web pages do not suggest that it's trying to be more open & secure than regular android - except the name. not sure what to make of it.

I'm afraid in the end I have to get to the same conclusion: The android ecosystem seems to be poisoned. It's the same what you once mentioned regarding Chromium - it's not Chrome, and it's open source, but still: If someone tries to avoid g* and all the crap the company is doing, better to opt for something else.

i totally agree, but realities make anything but (some sort of) android phone - well, unrealistic.
at least i'll try to make _that_ as secure as i can.

heard many positive comments from Sailfish-users. It works e.g. on Xperia devices.

on xda-developers?
so it's an unoffcial port or some such?
i could not find anything on sailfishos webpages that would suggest it can be downloaded & installed on devices?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
martix wrote:

CopperheadOS

^ The lead dev of this project was the maintainer for Arch Linux's linux-hardened kernel version (when it was in [Community]) and is also a regular contributor to the KSPP so I would say that is a good one glasses

good to know.
unfortunately their list of supprted devices is very short and seems to be limited to google devices (nexus, pixel).

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#53 2018-04-22 16:49:51

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

ohnonot wrote:

i could not find anything on sailfishos webpages that would suggest it can be downloaded & installed on devices?

You can buy Sailfish X and flash it on an Xperia X, but there is also a community edition. There are also other devices for Sailfish like Fairphone2. For some background info on Jolla this article has some interesting details. Sailfish is far from perfect, but to be honest there is not much besides apple and android. A guy named Lesner on hooktube has some Sailfish vids.

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#54 2018-04-23 03:42:23

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

but there is also a community edition.

i still don't see anything but a "purchase" link???

when i bought my last (current) phone in 2015, i was this '' close to getting a jolla instead. i physically had my hands on it. in retrospect, i could bite my own behind for not doing so...

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#55 2018-04-23 15:57:44

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^If you don't buy it, you have to build it yourself and flash it (the site above under community edition describes the steps). Older Jolla phones are going cheap now but these are a bit outdated (still usable though). There is also Jolla C (easy to find used ones for around 150, but Xperia X seems to be the better choice for only a bit more). I think it's a good way if they focus on one fairly new device like the Xperia X, they should get all the features working though. All I can say is that around half a dozen Jolla owners I asked liked the OS, inspite a few minor issues.

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#56 2018-04-25 17:20:20

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

inspite a few minor issues.

ok, now you whet my appetite, what would these issues be?

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#57 2018-04-27 10:17:29

martix
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Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^I think nfc and fm radio were not working. If you're interested, have a look at the jolla forum too. It's similar with Replicant: If you flash it e.g. on an S3, GPS won't work because of the proprietary driver (it can be installed later though).

This is way too cool: Using geany on a Pyra  https://hooktube.com/watch?v=oqi8W2lPTwA

Edit: Sailfish improved, they fixed bluetooth and fingerprint reader support.

Last edited by martix (2018-05-11 17:13:23)

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#58 2018-05-14 05:38:50

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

You can buy Sailfish X and flash it on an Xperia X, but there is also a community edition. There are also other devices for Sailfish like Fairphone2. For some background info on Jolla this article has some interesting details. Sailfish is far from perfect, but to be honest there is not much besides apple and android. A guy named Lesner on hooktube has some Sailfish vids.

i am getting more interested in this.
i think i will even shell over the 50€.
the xperia x f5121 required for this is available for ~150€ on ebay.
otoh, i just found out that sailfishOS UI components are NOT open source.
maybe i'll wait for the (much more expensive) librem5 after all...

<ohnonot>    hello, I read somewhere that SailfishOS is NOT opensource; is this true? (of course i'm aware that there will always be a certain amount of binary blobs for drivers etc.)
<ohnonot>    Also, I'm having a hard time finding the sailfishOS forums. is it this: http://together.jolla.com/ ?
<TheKit>    basically yes, middleware is open-source, but UI components are not
<Tegu>    and Jolla sells access to the source code [src:a finnish interview in Yle Puhe]
<Tegu>    you might also want to read this and some of the linked pages https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Open_Source
<Tegu>    like this https://sailfishos.org/wiki/SailfishOS_Source
<ohnonot>    ok, thanks. where are the forums?
<tadzik>    tjc you mentioned is the main one, there's also some activity on http://talk.maemo.org/
<tadzik>    tmo is a bit less chaotic smile
<ohnonot>    thanks for the info. just to confirm, everything that is said about sailfishOS also goes for sailfishOS X?
<ohnonot>    and it's also still possible to purchase that and burn it on a used XPeria X?
<tadzik>    yeah
<tadzik>    I think you may want to see if the used X is just the right model, f1521 or something like that
<ohnonot>    tadzik, yes i saw that , and checked it; on ebay this actually seems to be the cheaper model.
<tadzik>    sweet
<tadzik>    I got mine for like 200€ or 250€ iirc, but brand new
<ohnonot>    tadzik: "yeah" - ok, my question was sloppy, i will try to rephrase:
<ohnonot>    i read somewhere on sailfishos.org that it is "a full gnu/linux stack, a true alternative to android" - so sailfishos is clearly not android. apart from the kernel maybe?
<ohnonot>    and thios is what i want to ask about the sailfishos x for the xperia: it is NOT based on android?
<ohnonot>    it does not differ from the "normal" sailfish os?
<Gestra>    "Sailfish X" just means Sailfish OS running on Xperia X
<Gestra>    and no, Sailfish is not based on Android. Though it does use some Android drivers
<tbr>    and "android kernel" is really just "bog standard linux kernel, with some additional patches applied and then slowly massacred by SoC vendor, ODM and OEM
<tbr>    as others pointed out, significant parts of what makes sailfish, sailfish (UI, toolkit, core functionality) are closed source.

[rant]
...but i have a different problem atm: my internet & telephony provider.
currently i'm depending on a Dual SIM phone (internet and telephony separate); i want to change that, to be able to buy a single SIM device, but they won't let me - at least not without spending more money.
the phone contract salesman is the 21st century version of the most stereotype sleazy salesman. i effing hate those guys. you can't get a single shred of technical info out of them - they told me that if i want to change my (non-mobile) broadband, i'd need to buy a new router, despite the net coming in from the same socket, at the same speed! i just hope there's an alternative provider. happy hunting, ohnonot.
[/rant]

Last edited by ohnonot (2018-05-15 18:22:00)

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#59 2018-05-14 19:35:52

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

There is also a dual sim version of the Xperia: f5122. It works with Sailfish: https://together.jolla.com/question/169 … -dual-sim/   There are many different devices available: reviewjolla.blogspot.sg/p/devices.html   https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris

Sailfish is indeed not fully open source, although it was announced that it will be at some point of time. Looking at their business and where they are coming from, I can understand that they didn't open source everyting yet. For an (almost) open source device there are good budget choices with Replicant, like a Samsung S3 for around 50 or a Note2 for a bit more.

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#60 2018-05-15 18:23:57

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

the chat continued after i posted, i have updated my previous post, please read! revelations!

i must say, this does not look like a good choice if one wants to escape googleverse and closed source software that transmit who-knows-what information.

martix wrote:

Sailfish is indeed not fully open source, although it was announced that it will be at some point of time.

hm, that sounds familiar. ah yes, vivaldi...

Last edited by ohnonot (2018-05-15 18:25:11)

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#61 2018-05-16 12:01:14

martix
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Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

ohnonot wrote:

i must say, this does not look like a good choice if one wants to escape googleverse and closed source software that transmit who-knows-what information.

Sailfish has nothing to do with googleverse, I'm not sure what you mean here. Sailfish has its roots in the Maemo (n900)/MeeGo(N9) Nokia development and has nothing to do with android (as it was pointed out in the chat above).
After Apple released the iPhone, Nokia finally managed to create a similar OS (and better in many ways!) around 2011 called MeeGo, which was tested on the successor of the n900. This was the n950 and there were around 5000 developer's version released. This was the time when an ex-Microsoft guy called Elop became CEO and wanted a deal with Microsoft. They stupidly decided to completely ditch the n950 (which had a great hardware keyboard), started to develop the godawful Microsoft Lumia line and released a phone called N9 (which was basically an n950 without a keyboard) with MeeGo saying: This is the first and LAST phone with this OS, don't buy it, we just release it because it's ready, but it's better for you to buy a Lumia instead. People still liked the N9, around 2012 they sold more N9 than Lumia. Of course the Microsoft deal was a complete desaster for Nokia and the guys who wanted to continue the MeeGo development started Jolla. This is how the first Jolla phone with SailfishOS got released.
Vivaldi OTOH is based on google code and I can tell it makes all kinds of connections to g* because I tested it. I would not recommend Vivaldi, but I don't think there is anything wrong with Sailfish.

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#62 2018-05-23 06:54:23

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

i know about the history.

no, sailfish is not google, not android.
but they most certainly also collect data etc. and did who-knows-what (closed source, remember?) with the GNU/Linux codebase that will give their meager income a boost.

and it reminds me of vivaldi, bacause that isn't open-source either, unlike chromium, but they released most of it after people started complaining, except for - parts of the UI, if memeory serves. sound familiar?

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#63 2018-05-30 15:38:51

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^It's important to be concerned regarding closed source stuff, but Jolla is very clear on their policy: "Sailfish OS is the only mobile OS that does not share or monetize your personal data – that is something we can be proud of together!" Jolla has clear - short - policies, not like those silicon valley giants who collect everything with or without consent. Also, Sailfish was audited regarding data protection before signing contracts with foreign telecom providers.
I believe that Sailfish is a good choice (Vivaldi is a good browser, but a bad choice). I'm more concerned about Replicant. That's a great project, fully open source. However the project has limited ressources and its android version is mostly outdated, which unfortunately leads to all kinds of security issues. Apart from that there is not much left, ubports and plasma mobile or some tweaked android roms like Copperheados or Lineage.

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#64 2018-05-31 18:55:17

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

are you employed by sailfish/jolla?

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#65 2018-06-01 15:41:01

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

No, just trying to separate good projects from bad ones. And Sailfish is definitely a good one.

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#66 2018-06-02 10:42:34

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

maybe not employed, but in the form of bonus points?
500 positive mentions, you get the OS for free?
another 1000, you get a used xperia?

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#67 2018-06-02 12:04:48

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

I don't know of any such programs and am not sure that Jolla had ressources for something like that.

Also, I really do not care if someone uses Jolla or something else, but throwing Sailfish with googleverse in the same pot just deservers to be set straight.

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#68 2018-06-03 05:49:00

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

Also, I really do not care if someone uses Jolla or something else, but throwing Sailfish with googleverse in the same pot just deservers to be set straight.

which i never did:

ohnonot wrote:

i must say, this does not look like a good choice if one wants to escape googleverse and closed source software that transmit who-knows-what information.

fact remains, you only believe that sailfish os is somehow better (than some other mobile operating system).

let me ask this, do you believe that LineageOS is somehow better than, say, android? and if so, why?

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#69 2018-06-03 08:28:03

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

ohnonot wrote:

LineageOS is somehow better than, say, android?

That doesn't make much sense: LineageOS is based on Android, in much the same way as BunsenLabs is based on Debian.


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#70 2018-06-03 13:47:25

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^Well said @HoaS, that's the punch line about LineageOS. This is why there are unofficial forks like LineageOS for microG.  https://lineage.microg.org

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#71 2018-06-03 18:35:08

ohnonot
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Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^ i don't need any google services, and it's still android.

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#72 2018-07-08 00:05:06

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^The eelo project is similar to that. Their concept is under heavy development.

Meanwhile the CopperheadOS project kind of exploded. Strange story.

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