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#26 2016-11-23 20:17:32

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,217

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^Thanks for that too.

Actually came back to kinda admit I could be wrong on this in several ways. Would be a huge effort for a small under manned outfit in particular. That being the mobile thing in general( even android based), it's still doable, esp DIY. Because of this fragmentation thing I keep reading about. Manufacturers having to put together customized ROMs for their devices. Sometimes even for each given model they put out.

Could still be done and is being done by communities devoted to that niche. Though logically enough they tend to focus on the most popular and mod friendly devices and people with more locked down or obscure models are going to have to tweak it themselves. Have zero doubt there's plenty of nixers among the Android crowd.

Thinking pure mobile gnu/Nix will still be a reality someday. Hopefully anyway, think the same thing that stunted it on desktop, will happen again in ways when it comes to mobile. Getting access to the hardware support and Oem's being willing to be more cooperative with opensource developers.

Plus pure Nix has Android to compete with and all the big money momentum already behind it. On the brighter side it's based on the gnu/Linux kernel and has a massive amount of opensource efforts going into it. Even if Goog Inc is raking in bunches of cash from it. Though still much of the stuff that gets dev'ed out of it should/could trickle down into opensource and us end users get to benefit from it for sure.

Amazing what folks have done with Android and awesome to see M$ losing to it's betters yet again. This time w/o being able to pull all the sleaze they've done over the years to unfairly impede competition. YAY !

Some links related to what I'm babbling about here.

*Linux distro's having to use the Android kernel ... wth ?
*Also wth is an ARM processor ? < Had to google that one, had no idea.
*Finally introducing some ARM Linux distributions.  < Lol have to read that one, now I just gotta know.

Sorry if I babbled anybody's eyes out. Too much caffeine, not enough sleep. Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-23 20:36:29)

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#27 2016-11-24 04:55:14

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

Just found this:   https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

Sort of Debian Mobile (and much more). It looks like it should be able to run with Bunsenlabs too.


WOW!

my first reaction was: butt-ugly! - but: it's tiny! exactly the size of my current phone, just thicker.

a question: how good is the cpu? maybe compared to current phones/netbooks?


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#28 2016-11-24 11:48:47

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

There is Cortex A15, dual-core 1,5 GHz ARM built in. It says:  "The pandora can already play games like Diablo II, Call To Power II, Jedi Knight, or Return to Castle Wolfenstein. It can even do fullspeed emulation of many arcade games and most systems up to 2004. The Pyra has the power to be a Laptop." The architecture is great as it is modular, so it's upgradeable in parts (also the CPU). Promising gadget.

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#29 2016-11-25 20:51:02

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

Just found this:   https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/
Sort of Debian Mobile (and much more). It looks like it should be able to run with Bunsenlabs too.

i spent a few hours (!) researching the pyra.
it is

  • very expensive, as all open hardware things (~700€ with mobile broadband)

  • made in germany

  • a continuation of open pandora, it seems a lot of thought is being put into the design, both under the hood and usability. in any case it builds upon many years of experience

  • modular, upgradeable (however that seems to be very dependant on the manufacturers; it's not like you just can put in a new cpu - i think)

  • on the planning board since 2014/15 and specs may seem a little outdated already

  • runs (standard with added repositories for drivers and software???) debian

i like how that guy talks about the importance of openness and hackability e.g. here.

i have no definite info how this would work as a phone. the hardware surely seems to be there. for me this is a crucial point, deciding whether i ask my family to crowdfund me a Xmas present...


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#30 2016-11-26 08:00:10

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

i have no definite info how this would work as a phone. the hardware surely seems to be there.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-07-02 09:50:31)


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#31 2017-07-24 19:30:45

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

Aren't those little mobile devices sweet?

SideView.th.jpg

Debian running on Pyra.

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#32 2017-07-25 02:15:56

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,329

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

I sure would LOVE to have a real linux phone (not Android), but with a way to install and run Android apps on top. Someday that may happen I hope smile


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#33 2017-07-25 02:44:46

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^If I'm not mistaken, it's already possible: Having the mobile version of Pyra means having a debian/linux phone.

On top of that it's possible to run android in Virtualbox. On that system it would be possible to install android apps. I'm not sure though how the cpu power of the pyra would handle the android instance.

Edit: Right now I looked at those Pyra devices again and suddenly I was just thinking: That gadget should have a screen just like a Lenovo X201t! You know, the tablet version of the x201, where you can turn around the screen and pop it back. It does not really work with the laptop as it's a bit too bulky but it might be perfect with that little device (and with a touch screen).

Last edited by martix (2017-07-25 02:49:52)

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#34 2017-07-30 07:47:50

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^ the pyra includes the hardware to run as a phone, i checked on their forums.
however, the price is a little high for me ... :'-(
is it being shipped already?

personally, I was thinking to build one myself at some point .. a small linux-capable SBC, a 3d printer for the shell...


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#35 2017-07-30 23:08:26

devnull
Member
Registered: 2017-06-29
Posts: 69

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

what about just putting the sdcard in your pc, debootstrap a jessie in a folder and from android use connectBot or something like that to chroot inside it? You should get into a debian shell in a second, with apt and everything.

Not sure how could you go to use x applications and audio from there, though...

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#36 2017-08-19 02:27:52

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

@ohnonot I'm not sure about the shipping details. There is a cool version with touchscreen, keyboard, gaming controls, Wi-Fi, SD card slots, several USB ports, modem, telephony services, GPS, and a 6-axis digital compass.

More info regarding mobile devices and Debian on this site and here.

I like that PocketCHIP, which is a small handheld computer with keyboard, USB, WiFi and Debian 8 or 9. There is also a phone project based on that chip. That handheld is well priced, but somehow I'd prefer to get a raspi instead.

Last edited by martix (2017-08-19 02:29:19)

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#37 2017-11-19 15:18:50

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

There is a promising project on the way: Librem 5.

They have also a cooperation with KDE. As Debian will be available on that device, there will be a small step from there to have something like a Mobile BunsenLabs.

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#38 2018-01-08 12:08:16

devnull
Member
Registered: 2017-06-29
Posts: 69

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

I have a chrooted instance of debian on my mobile, and I access it with a android VNC client. I can connect keyboard and mouse to my mobile and have a tiny monitor but fully working debian with DE on the mobile, repos and all. I don't see why, BL shouldn't work.

If you want a mobile running exclusively BL, that is out of my knowledge

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#39 2018-01-23 21:31:14

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

ohnonot wrote:

^ the pyra includes the hardware to run as a phone, i checked on their forums.
however, the price is a little high for me ... :'-(
is it being shipped already?


Well, I guess it's safe to say by now that they are there!

It has been a long development, but according to that last post "So yes. All known bugs and issues have been dealt with. We're not aware of any issue left right now!"

I really like that device, and once they start the production, there might be even more buzz about this project. I think it's kind of a niche device, but there is an awesome dedicated community behind it.

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#40 2018-01-24 16:57:26

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^ if you could keep an eye on that, martix?
i'd like to see what the final price will be when they finally start shipping.
and, frankly, they should start with the cpu board upgrade straightaway.
the specs were already dated when i looked at it over a year ago.


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#41 2018-02-28 13:41:12

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^Pyra is more on the expensive side (given the specs), between 600 € and 750 € (depending on RAM and mobile equipment). I guess they are about to ship orders in the upcoming months.

I think Bunsenlabs would run on this device, a Gemini PGA. The Gemini PDA features a 6 inch, 2160 x 1080 pixel display, a MediaTek Helio X27 deca-core processor, 4GB of RAM, 64GB of storage, stereo speakers, 802.11ac WiFi, Bluetooth 4.0, and optional 4G LTE. It's surprising that it does not have something like a mouse pointer.

Edit: Here is a good article about the predecessor of that PGA.

Last edited by martix (2018-02-28 13:56:16)

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#42 2018-04-10 14:02:03

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

I think this is a sweet little device: https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=uKrMJH7UCmM

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#43 2018-04-10 14:29:10

vinzv
Member
Registered: 2017-09-12
Posts: 186
Website

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

I think this is a sweet little device: https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=uKrMJH7UCmM

Absolutely! If I had the money spare I'd totally get one.

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#44 2018-04-11 18:17:30

vinzv
Member
Registered: 2017-09-12
Posts: 186
Website

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

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#45 2018-04-20 16:13:38

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

i think it's time to start looking for a new mobile phone - my 4-year old acer e39 is emiting first signals of hardware failure.
due to limited resources, all pipe dreams a lá pyra or gemini are out.

what i want to do this time, hoping it's a better strategy:

  1. find the best/securest operating system that can be installed on (a few select) common phone models and is likely to get constant updates

  2. get one of those models cheap/used on ebay or some such, and install away

recommendations for 1.?

Last edited by ohnonot (2018-04-20 16:15:14)


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#46 2018-04-20 19:18:49

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

@ohnonot Well, there are not many viable alternatives: The Android ecosystem seems to be hopelessly poisoned imho. I would not even opt for LineageOS or something similar (not even microG edition). iOS is obviously out of question, so what is left? Ubuntu Touch, which is called ubports now. And Sailfish. PostmarketOS is not yet usable (I think it works best on an old Nokia N900 but even there it's not complete) and Liberm 5 is in development. Anything else I forgot? There are some other projects too, but as a daily driver I guess ubports and Sailfish are the best options. If you check vids on hooktube, Sailfish looks great.

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#47 2018-04-20 19:41:00

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,554

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

i was rather thinking about something like https://www.replicant.us/

i remember there were a few more OSs like this, even more focused on security/privacy, the names elude me atm...

projects that manage to stay maintained over time because they only support a few devices.


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#48 2018-04-20 20:01:44

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

^Yeah, something like CopperheadOS, ParanoidAndroid, etc. - I was thinking about them (and also about Replicant), but I'm afraid in the end I have to get to the same conclusion: The android ecosystem seems to be poisoned. It's the same what you once mentioned regarding Chromium - it's not Chrome, and it's open source, but still: If someone tries to avoid g* and all the crap the company is doing, better to opt for something else.
I tested Beanstalk once (that's an android replacement rom), flashed it without gapps. It worked fine with f-droid but still: There was traffic I just could not explain or control. I don't know much about ubports, heard many positive comments from Sailfish-users. It works e.g. on Xperia devices.

Edit: Someone might think that the "android ecosystem is poisoned" thing is silly and everybody is using those apps - well, there are many-many news like this: “A study conducted on 5,885 child-directed Android apps from the US Play Store, which are included in Google’s Designed for Families programme, found that well over half of the apps potentially violated the US Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act (Coppa). 4.8% had clear violations when apps share location or contact information without consent, 40% shared personal information without applying reasonable security measures, 18% shared persistent identifiers with their parties for prohibited purposes such as ad targeting, and 39% showed ignorance or disregard for contractual obligations aimed at protecting children’s privacy. The researchers found that 28% of the apps accessed sensitive data protected by Android permissions and that 73% of the tested apps transmitted sensitive data over the internet.”  https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ … aw-privacy   <- And this is only the tip of the iceberg...

Last edited by martix (2018-04-21 08:53:18)

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#49 2018-04-21 12:26:02

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

martix wrote:

CopperheadOS

^ The lead dev of this project was the maintainer for Arch Linux's linux-hardened kernel version (when it was in [Community]) and is also a regular contributor to the KSPP so I would say that is a good one glasses


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#50 2018-04-21 14:32:12

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,329

Re: Mobile Bunsenlabs

ohnonot wrote:
twoion wrote:

and the benefits zero.

i wouldn't say that...
i'm still dreaming of having some kind of real gnu/linux on my phone.

the main difficulty is, simply put, that most mobile devices are not PCs.
sounds like a matter of course?
think what PCs actually are and why we are able to install Linux (and also Windows, btw) on so many different devices.

Also you run into proprietary blobs as most phone hardware has closed source drivers, so it is a big feat to be able to reverse engineer such firmware to be able to run a real Linux distro on a mobile device.


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