Whatsapp or not?

ohnonot · 2017-07-30 11:37:24

OK, most people will just groan when they see the title and not even click on it... but recent/constant development requires a re-evaluation of whatsapp and its (un)security.
I see people using it everywhere, not only for text but for photos, short audio recordings (almost like a phone) etc.
it's one of the first question new aquaintances ask, when it comes to exchanging contact data.
It would be really useful for me to be able to use it.

I keep telling friends & colleagues that to me, whatsapp is the devil incarnate, and i will never-ever-use-it. because. it is totally insecure, etc. etc.

Just recently I'm not so sure anymore.
I mean, I do use facebook from time to time - provided one uses a secondary mail address, and doesn't post all their private information, it isn't too bad for me. i guess. a little ip-based geolocation (i usually don't use gps on my devices), useragent info, and the usual dangers of allowing javascript.
same goes for google services.

So my question is:
Is whatsapp really so much more insecure than that? giving not only whatsapp itself, but also crackers from all over the world a conveniently easy way to get into my phone, read contacts, messages, emails, etc. - sensitive information. maybe even install mal/ad/spyware?

Also I heard one doesn't have to provide both email & phone number, just email is enough?
and there's a web interface, i think on a mobile phone that would be preferable to installing the app, because i have more control over it (through the browser; i'm using firefox on android)? just, trying https://web.whatsapp.com/, i can't use it without first using the app on my phone?

hm, enough question marks for one post.
i know i could've eliminated a few beforehand, but please understand that websearching "how secure is whatsapp" gives too many results... and i hear things have changed (for better or worse) since facebook took them over ... another thing i wouldn't want to happen, is the two pooling their info.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-07-02 07:50:02)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-07-30 12:17:51

https://github.com/bcalik/Whatsapp-Desktop

I wouldn't touch the above with a proverbial (10-foot) barge pole, mind you.

martix · 2017-07-30 16:27:21

I cannot comment on the topic as I don't use it but as a Sidenote I'd like to add: Ring has been recently released (1.0).

nore · 2017-07-30 16:44:31

ohnonot wrote:

that means i can't use it without first using the app on my phone?

That's the idea; it feels more secure than traditional user/passwd login, as long as your phone is in your pocket.

ohnonot wrote:

the two pooling their info.

Why would Facebook buy Whatsapp in the first place?
How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook to *improve* (sic) my Facebook ads and products experiences?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I wouldn't touch the above with a proverbial (10-foot) barge pole, mind you.

Do you mean just that suspicious desktop app or Whatsapp in general?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-07-30 17:25:45

nore wrote:

Do you mean just that suspicious desktop app or Whatsapp in general?

Both.

Disclaimer: I don't really know the exact nature of this "Whatsapp" and I can't be bothered looking it up.

damo · 2017-07-30 18:40:40

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

...
Disclaimer: I don't really know the exact nature of this "Whatsapp" and I can't be bothered looking it up.

I'm going to submit this to BL quotes

Sector11 · 2017-07-30 18:58:13

I read it all and was almost about to give the benefit of the doubt to whatsapp when I read:

and i hear things have changed (for better or worse) since facebook took them over

To quote HoaS with the Canadian touch: I wouldn't touch the above with your 10-foot pole! Facebook does NOT have a good security track record. Like:

Facebook Is Tracking Your Every Move on the Web; Here's How to Stop It
Facebook is watching and tracking you more than you probably realize
Facebook Is Keeping Track Of Every Post You Write and Don’t Publish
NSA mines Facebook for connections, including Americans' profiles
Facebook Glitch Brings New Privacy Worries
Facebook doesn't listen through your phone's mic -- except when it does

some are old ... but that's the idea of a "track record" ... facebook hasn't changed at all.

Didn't bother with the links - Using Startpage I searched for: Facebook's track record on security.

Now that one about not listening to you mike - except when it does ( WT ) is a new one for me and quite an eye I'm going to read it. It's bad enough today that if you 'use' the Internet they have you without going out of your way making things easy for them.

Ok read some of the "Facebook doesn't listen..." check the comments You know what they say about you can't miss what you have never had. Never having had any 'social app' I don't miss any of them.

My wife has a new smart phone. She does not go on the net with it, other than when she first got it to get some ring tones. She uses it to answer calls or the odd call to people that use the same servibe - lucky for her they are free, or for the 'odd' SMS message. Last month her phone bill jumped by 250 pesos so she phoned to find out why. Personal up'ed everyone service from 2G to 4G without notifying them, and then billed them for the extra service. My wife went ballistic the 'minkey' they hired to answer phone queries simply could not understand why my wife would not want this service!! She is back down to 2G and at a reduction of 100 pesos from what she had been paying.

Disclaimer: We, S11 and S12, don't use 'any' social net working on her phone or wither of her tablets. In fact I have camera and mike disabled on both. I do however frequent various Linux forums

Sector11 · 2017-07-30 19:04:00

HOLY CRAP! Play the video at the coffee shop somewhat in England.

glittersloth · 2017-07-30 19:23:35

Cannot answer most of your questions. All I will say is that I wouldn't trust anything owned by Facebook even if you paid me.... unless it's Dr. Evil amounts of money, then I'm open to living in denial.

Having said that, WhatsApp and LINE have practically become requirements where I live, and one stands to lose out in many parts of business/commerce if they're not using these "services". In my case, it's not so bad (yet); I wouldn't say I'd completely lose work, but it helps to not put too many hurdles in front of clients.

Anyway, my solution was to buy a cheapo Android phone and a prepaid sim. It's basically classified as my Dirty Phone, where I install apps I don't particularly trust but still need to get by. That's the phone I install WhatsApp and LINE on (along with Google Maps). Said phone runs on cellular data exclusively. I'll never connect it to my home or office wifi network. People whom I give that number to will under no circumstances get my primary iPhone's number or email address (or even my namecard) since I know that anyone who demands I have one of these revolting messenger apps is someone who I won't have a lasting business or personal relationship with anyway.

Yeah, I know wearing a condom while having sex with a leper isn't much good, but that's all you can do when everyone in your stinking city has the disease.

Last edited by glittersloth (2017-07-30 19:34:49)

Unia · 2017-07-31 07:26:46

I use it, because all my old friends do. Most of my CS friends all made the switch to Telegram (first because it was supposedly more secure but I'm not so sure about that anymore, now they stick around for its better groups, sharing of documents and desktop clients).

Converting my friends isn't going to work, and any (real) widely used alternative (e.g. Telegram, Kik messenger, etc) probably have the same privacy implications so it's just a matter of picking your potion. Just treat every conversation as if it's visible by anyone.

ohnonot · 2017-07-31 10:13:11

thanks for the input so far.

just to clarify, for me it's not so much about having safe conversations, but about fear of an app having access to all the contact info stored on my phone, incl. my own phone number (i haven't installed whatsapp, but i guess that is what it does?), and making this info more-or-less available to 1 billion users...

and to further clarify, the only reason i'm interested in it is because everybody else uses it.
I would like to be able to say to people: yes, here's my whatsapp contact. add me to this-or-that group.
right now i depend on a friend to inform me of decisions made inside the group.

i know there's alternatives out there, but unless everyone uses them, or they are somehow whatsapp-compatible, they are of no use in respect to this topic.

so i was hoping i could sandbox whatsapp somehow, restrict access to bare necessities.
and thinking about it, i wouldn't strictly need it on my phone, on my desktop would be enough.
but iirc, the "desktop client" is just a fancy interface around https://web.whatsapp.com/ ? not much point afaics.
or maybe some sort of whatsapp compatible application does exist?

i should just start trying out things, but right now i don't see any alternative but to install the normal whatsapp app straight to my phone, without any sort of safety net, to get at least initial access... and i'm scared to do that.

Last edited by ohnonot (2017-07-31 10:15:42)

ohnonot · 2017-07-31 11:10:22

^ valuable input!

xprivacy is an option.

first i will try android_x86 in a VM.

all the desktop clients seem to be silly frontends to the whatsapp's own web client :-(

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-07-31 16:29:24

You could try a Nexus or Pixel with CopperheadOS:

https://copperhead.co/android/

It's *much* more secure than your Linux desktop, the main developer maintains Arch Linux's hardened kernel package in his spare time.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-07-31 16:31:17)

Sector11 · 2017-07-31 16:38:32

Unia wrote:

Just treat every conversation as if it's visible by anyone.

Sage advice.

ohnonot · 2017-08-01 04:51:18

earlybird wrote:

I tried android x86 once, it was so buggy as to become totally useless.

i remember that, but i tried 6.0 yesterday and it works well enough in virtualbox - once you figure out how to get the pointer working - but so far i have been unsuccesful in installing anything to that, without a google account, without guest additions... they have that locked down pretty tight.

If you're lucky, the app works in Archon so you can run it directly in Chromium or Chrome -> https://archon-runtime.github.io/. Always use the --tablet switch when processing the APK.

it's in the AUR, but no success with that either, so far.

i will get there evtl.

#1 2017-07-30 11:37:24

Whatsapp or not?

#2 2017-07-30 12:17:51

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#3 2017-07-30 16:27:21

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#4 2017-07-30 16:44:31

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#5 2017-07-30 17:25:45

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#6 2017-07-30 18:40:40

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#7 2017-07-30 18:58:13

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#8 2017-07-30 19:04:00

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#9 2017-07-30 19:23:35

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#10 2017-07-31 07:26:46

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#11 2017-07-31 10:13:11

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#12 2017-07-31 11:10:22

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#13 2017-07-31 16:29:24

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#14 2017-07-31 16:38:32

Re: Whatsapp or not?

#15 2017-08-01 04:51:18

Re: Whatsapp or not?

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