Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

Martin · 2017-07-14 21:32:06

I am idly browsing for second hand Lenovo Laptops and have found a company selling T410 (210 euro), X220 (350 euro), T420s and X230 (both at 370 euro). All with 4 GB RAM and the T420s is the only one with SSD. No OS included.

So what's in it between T and X models apart from weight/size?

What about battery life and finding replacement batteries?

Linux friendliness?

/Martin

bigbenaugust · 2017-07-15 03:34:22

Shoot, I have a Lenovo lappy from last year in my office. What model is it...
*logs into VPN and runs dmidecode on laptop*

I have a P50 and other than a little display weirdness with the NVidia card and the Nouveau driver, it runs Xubuntu 16.10 like a champ. One of my co-workers is running Fedora on his, so I do not imagine that BL or Debian would be a problem either.
At home, I have a W530 which is on the old side and pretty big, but a great machine. It has run Xubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, and BL.

Neither is a T or an X, though.

Last edited by bigbenaugust (2017-07-15 03:37:26)

Martin · 2017-07-15 08:48:56

nobody wrote:

You didn't specify the processors; I'd take i5, i7 x230 over i5, i3 t420s but only i7 t420s over x230 i3.
What sucked most about the old Thinkpads is the display. These were absolutely not good, and were utterly inappropriate for devices released after 2010! x230 IPS | t420s 1600x900 > x230 LED > t420s everything else in that regard.

Thanks for all the information.

The T420s is said to have an i5-2520M processor and 1600x900 TFT IPS display. For the x230 the same vital statistics are i5-3210M and 1366x768 TFT. No mentioning of IPS.

/Martin

MsMattie · 2017-07-20 14:53:55

I have Lenovo X-series laptops older than the ones you describe and for almost everything they are good, and plenty fast enough with Linux on them. And cheaper than the newer models. They're so cheap that I can always have a spare set up and ready to go - dual booted with Windows 7 or 10, and BunsenLabs. Or even triple booted with Windows and two Linux distros. And then I have a spare machine immediately ready if one goes down or is stolen or whatever...

I have one T430s and it is a matter of personal choice between X and T series - bigger screen with T-series, but also bigger machine if you have to carry it.

DeepDayze · 2017-07-20 15:08:30

I own a Lenovo SL510 that has a 15.6" screen and with 8GB memory. CPU is a core2 duo at 2.5ghz. Old yes, but runs like a champ.

Temetka · 2017-07-22 05:15:41

Thinkpads are awesome.

I have a T430s I am posting this from. It is a tough call between the T420s and X230. On one hand you get better performing GPU, lower temps and increased battery life (X230). If you go with the T420 you get a larger screen and the classic keyboard (which some people prefer). Personally, I'd go with the X230 over the T420s.

However if you were comparing X230 to T430s it is a tougher call as the T430s can be modded to use the classic keyboard and an FHD panel can be installed as weill.

You can check out r/thinkpads on reddit and of course there is the forum.thinkpads.com site if you need more info as well. Thinkwiki.org hasn't been updated in a while, but the info it has on the 2 machines is pretty accurate.

Martin · 2017-07-25 11:44:04

x230 ordered.
Now I need to master the art of booting/installing from USB stick.

/Martin

Martin · 2017-07-29 14:30:41

My x230 is up and running now with bunselabs. I already see why these machines are popular.

I have found some tips-and-tricks over at our Arch-friends' place. Anything worth fooling arund with or is it already taken care of in Bunsen/Debian-space? I do notice the touchpad works just fine without any tweaks.

/Martin

martix · 2017-07-29 19:51:53

^Congratulations on getting that x230 laptop (and installing #BĹ on it)!

I'm wondering: What kind of battery time do you get (with what capacity)? If it's about battery time, you can check threads regarding powertop, laptop-mode-tools or tlp and choose what you like.

Martin · 2017-07-29 20:38:47

Too early to pass judgement on battery time as I am only about halfway through my first discharge. The xfce battery indicator says I have 39% battery left and it will last another 2.5 hours. I do not know how accurate that prediction is. Usage so far: Light surfing and installing Baobab.

What I bought is a recycled machine of lower spec. No keyboard back-lighting, HDD rather than SDD, TN LCD panel and the smaller battery (some 60+ Wh). I do not know how fresh the battery is.

/Martin

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-07-29 21:14:27

Martin wrote:

I have found some tips-and-tricks over at our Arch-friends' place. Anything worth fooling arund with or is it already taken care of in Bunsen/Debian-space?

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

I hear that OpenBSD runs really well on those, my X201 certainly loves it...

https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

]:D

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-07-29 21:15:19)

martix · 2017-07-30 09:40:14

^That's a nice command, good to know about it.

acpi -b -i

With tlp I always used:

tlp-stat -b

@Martin It looks like around 6 hours with that smaller battery? That's a good result I'd say. For the more recent version - the x250 - I read something about 15 hours battery time (can someone maybe confirm?). With SSD that x230 would even improve a bit (regarding speed and battery time). Last weekend I checked my brothers x201 with SSD and a 6200 mAh battery and it had around 5 hours battery time.

Btw I never heard of baobab before, but it looks like a nice tool for checking disk usage.

Martin · 2017-07-30 10:08:39

No, I don't think 6 hours is possible. When I fired the machine up today it told me I had 1.5 hours to go and after maybe 20 minutes is closed shop and I had to go get the charger. Loging in I was where it had left me -- no data left and still logged into this forum.

Here is what's happening right now:

martin@d2:~$ acpi -b -i
Battery 0: Charging, 41%, 00:46:22 until charged
Battery 0: design capacity 5063 mAh, last full capacity 4410 mAh = 87%

@nobody: How do I know tlp and tp_smapi are working?

@Head-on-a-Stick: Yes, OpenBSD would be fun to explore -- once I know for sure my HDD is OK or I have replaced it. Time permitting as always...

/Martin

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-07-30 10:14:54

^ scottro's certificate seems to have lapsed but this is the guide I used the first time:

https://srobb.net/openbsdmultiboot.html

For GPT (UEFI) disks, use gdisk and partition code a600 for the OpenBSD disklabel, more here:

http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php? … #post61565

Temetka · 2017-08-01 06:04:01

Silly question: Did you install tlp and tp_smapi?

That being said 87% of life remaining on that battery is pretty good IMO considering the age of the machine.

My T430s has an SSD which does increase battery life somewhat. Here's my battery info

Battery 0: Discharging, 96%, 02:16:25 remaining
Battery 0: design capacity 3607 mAh, last full capacity 3127 mAh = 86%

This machine has the 6-cell battery. There is a 9-cell available for it but I haven't purchased one. I am also a very bad Thinkpadder and haven't installed tlp, tp_smapi or powertop yet. I should probably do that.

EDIT: I installed tlp. Here's some more info:

sudo tlp-stat -b
--- TLP 0.9 --------------------------------------------

+++ ThinkPad Extended Battery Functions
tp-smapi   = inactive (kernel module 'tp_smapi' not installed)
tpacpi-bat = inactive (kernel module 'acpi_call' not installed)

+++ Battery Status
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/manufacturer                   = Panasonic
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/model_name                     = 45N1143
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/cycle_count                    = (not supported)
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/energy_full_design             =  43290 [mWh]
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/energy_full                    =  37530 [mWh]
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/energy_now                     =  34740 [mWh]
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/power_now                      =  13285 [mW]
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status                         = Discharging

Charge                                                      =   92.6 [%]
Capacity                                                    =   86.7 [%]

And a question for the more knowledgeable out there. Should I be using tlp and powertop together, or is it a one or the other type thing? I am concerned they might conflict with one another and cause instability somewhere and this install of BL is running very very nicely. No issues of any kind. It's really nice actually. First time I haven't had to futz with anything. Well, besides conky of course.

Last edited by Temetka (2017-08-01 06:10:23)

Temetka · 2017-08-01 06:23:20

For those of us with 3rd generation and newer Thinkpads, tp_smapi is non-functional.

There is more information on the Thinkwiki page here: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Tp_smapi

I got curious when I saw this line in my tlp_stat -b output :

tp-smapi   = inactive (kernel module 'tp_smapi' not installed)
tpacpi-bat = inactive (kernel module 'acpi_call' not installed)

So it would appear were stuck with acpi only.

I'm off to check on powertop and 3rd generation Intel CPU's to see if there's any funkiness there.

Temetka · 2017-08-01 06:29:57

So, apparently it is OK to mix tlp and powertop. I found a nice reddit post on the topic. I'm headed to bed in a bit, so I'll deal with powertop tomorrow.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comme … tlp_linux/

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-08-01 07:23:05

Temetka wrote:

My T430s has an SSD

Have you tried blk-mq with that?

martix · 2017-08-01 10:50:11

There are detailed info about Powertop and tlp in threads here. In the end I opted for laptop-mode-tools with powertop.

@HoaS I'm not sure why, but that srobb.net link with multiboot just does not work for me.

Temetka · 2017-08-01 11:43:09

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Temetka wrote:
My T430s has an SSD
Have you tried blk-mq with that?

No I haven't.

For a few reasons.

1. This is the most important. I simply was unaware of it.
2. My system actually has 2 SSDs.
2a. 128GB - Linux
2b. 250GB - Windows 10 Enterprise
- The grub is written to the 500MB partition that Windows 10 also uses.
3. Booting and using BunsenLabs is stupid fast on this machine. Like stupid, stupid fast. It boots in literally like 3 seconds after grubs OS chooser appears on screen. All of my apps load in 1 maybe 2 seconds. So unless there some magic garbage collection for SSDs in blk-mq that I am unaware of (other than what is already in use), I don't see any reason to go mucking around with a perfectly operation operating system installation.

Last edited by Temetka (2017-08-01 11:44:31)

#1 2017-07-14 21:32:06

Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#2 2017-07-15 03:34:22

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#3 2017-07-15 08:48:56

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#4 2017-07-20 14:53:55

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#5 2017-07-20 15:08:30

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#6 2017-07-22 05:15:41

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#7 2017-07-25 11:44:04

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#8 2017-07-29 14:30:41

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#9 2017-07-29 19:51:53

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#10 2017-07-29 20:38:47

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#11 2017-07-29 21:14:27

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#12 2017-07-30 09:40:14

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#13 2017-07-30 10:08:39

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#14 2017-07-30 10:14:54

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#15 2017-08-01 06:04:01

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#16 2017-08-01 06:23:20

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#17 2017-08-01 06:29:57

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#18 2017-08-01 07:23:05

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#19 2017-08-01 10:50:11

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

#20 2017-08-01 11:43:09

Re: Lenovo Laptops, T vs X?

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