#1 2017-04-06 18:34:32

geekosupremo

Member

Registered: 2016-04-27

Posts: 169

A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

This is somewhat pointed at the Archers on here.

I understand what a rolling distro is and why it's actually kinda rad for desktops.

But on a scale of 0 - 10 {0 = not crazy at all, 10 = nuttier than squirrel shi poop} where would using a rolling release distro be as a server?

As a point of clarification I'm looking at the TrueOS (FreeBSD) dist.

Last edited by geekosupremo (2017-04-07 23:50:19)

Head_on_a_Stick

Member

From: London

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 9,093

Website

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=206307

EDIT: this post is the most informed:

if you have to ask whether to use Arch in a production setting, the answer is no

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 7#p1587867

Allan is the lead developer of pacman(8) 

EDIT2: although I am actually planning to run a public-facing minecraft server on OpenBSD -current, which is also a roller.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-04-06 18:40:47)

---

Para todos todo, para nosotros nada

geekosupremo

Member

Registered: 2016-04-27

Posts: 169

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

I figured HoaS would have good links.

Also edited the OP to clarify just a smidge.

Head_on_a_Stick

Member

From: London

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 9,093

Website

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

I'm looking at the TrueOS (FreeBSD) dist.

Why use that for a server?

As I understand it, TrueOS attempts to deliver a pre-configured desktop environment based on FreeBSD — none of that will be any use on a server, you would be better off with plain FreeBSD, surely?

EDIT: I see from their site that the remit has expanded since I tried PC-BSD, nvm.

Also, although FreeBSD is very good in respect of performance, it lags behind OpenBSD & HardenedBSD for security.

https://www.openbsd.org/

https://hardenedbsd.org/

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-04-06 19:07:27)

---

Para todos todo, para nosotros nada

Sector11

Mod Squid Tpyo Knig

From: Upstairs

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 8,030

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

RE: What Allan wrote.

if you have to ask whether to use Arch in a production setting, the answer is no

Aaaaaaaaa kinda like if you have to ask "How much?" then a Rolls Royce isn't for you.

Funny, my first thought would have been 11 out of 10 but after reading some from the links HoaS posted ... makes sense ... especially this link's point #7 Debian SID (Debian Unstable) is IMHO just as stable as Debian Stable (if managed correctly - use apt-listbugs is a good start) and a hell of a lot more stable than Debian Testing.

Again just MHO.

EDIT:  OOPS!  BSD stuff sneaked in while I was slowly typing/editing typos etc etc.

Last edited by Sector11 (2017-04-06 19:06:22)

---

Debian 12 Beardog, SoxDog and still a Conky 1.9er

damo

....moderator....

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 6,734

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

...and a hell of a lot more stable than Debian Testing.

Not more stable surely, but much quicker to be fixed?

---

Be Excellent to Each Other...
The Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop » Here
FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

geekosupremo

Member

Registered: 2016-04-27

Posts: 169

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

@S11 - No worries I'm mostly looking for opinions from expereince or philosophy. Which your comments are right in line with.

@HoaS - Those are some excellent alternatives! Espcially HardendBSD, since it seems to be FreeBSD with more focus on security. I'm not overly worried about the hardness of the server, since it will not be public facing. I am not ignoring the security, just not losing sleep over it ... yet. My bigger concern is the files and backups.

@damo - That is a very good point, and one of the reasons I even looked at TrueOS.

The package management will be one of the key things to keep in mind when evaluating this sorts of things.

Sector11

Mod Squid Tpyo Knig

From: Upstairs

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 8,030

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

@damo

Well, there was quite a discussion in #! quite a while back and the consensus there was "more stable".

Plus from my own personal experience with SID that I ran for 18 months and only borked because of my own stupidity, I think it was more stable than Testing.  At least I saw a lot more people having problems with running #! Testing  than people running #! SID.

And yes, as you say, "but much quicker to be fixed" - SID was fixed faster by the Debian team than Testing was.

And SID was also more stable than the "current" release of Ubuntu, that gets it's files from the SID repos before Ubuntuizing (new word) them every 6 months.  Mind you, I'm talking a few years back, have no clue today as I've been away from Ubu a long time.

@S11 - No worries I'm mostly looking for opinions from experience or philosophy. Which your comments are right in line with.

The package management will be one of the key things to keep in mind when evaluating this sorts of things.

Thank you ... that's why I suggested apt-listbugs to use with update dist-upgrade it's a bacon saver!

Description: tool which lists critical bugs before each APT installation apt-listbugs is a tool which retrieves bug reports from the Debian Bug Tracking System and lists them. Especially, it is intended to be invoked before each installation/upgrade by APT in order to check whether the installation/upgrade is safe.

Many developers and users prefer the unstable version of Debian for its new features and packages.  APT, the usual upgrade tool, can break your system by installing a buggy package.

apt-listbugs lists critical bug reports from the Debian Bug Tracking System. Run it from within the APT session, in order to see whether an installation or upgrade is known to be unsafe.

... but BSD is cool too and might have a similar application as well ... I wouldn't know though.

Good luck.

Last edited by Sector11 (2017-04-06 22:03:37)

---

Debian 12 Beardog, SoxDog and still a Conky 1.9er

Head_on_a_Stick

Member

From: London

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 9,093

Website

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

Re: stability

For Debian, the term stable does *not* refer to the reliability (or uncrashability, if that's a word) of the system — the term is used to indicate that the distribution is fixed and unchanging: the package versions stay the same and, most importantly, the same APIs and configuration files can be used for the entire lifetime of the release.

One of the the more irritating aspects of using a rolling release operating system is the need to continually re-jig and adjust configurations and methods, the new bugs and added security vulnerabilities are just the icing on the cake... 

---

Para todos todo, para nosotros nada

ohnonot

...again

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 5,592

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

i use archlinux for my desktop, and debian jessie aka stable for my server.
both setups have been 100% ideal and almost hassle free.

this thread:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=206307
has all the answers you need. both pro & con.

geekosupremo

Member

Registered: 2016-04-27

Posts: 169

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

Yet again, this forum proves to be one of the most useful and helpful places to learn about *nix stuff.

I accept, "If you need to ask ... then no" is a completely valid response, and that y'all seem to understand that sometimes, you need to ask anyway ... because you all are some sort of saints. O:) {)

The information from the Arch forum thread was useful, and the Arch mailing list was very enlightening. It highlights why I am probably not quite ready to tackle this sort of project. It might live as a VBox machine for a while but not a production thing.

Thanks so much to all of you for your input and thoughtfulness!

Sector11

Mod Squid Tpyo Knig

From: Upstairs

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 8,030

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

Yes, and I am Saint  ]:D

I learned a few things along the way too.  HoaS is "always" a good source. And right beside him ohnonot and damo - not necessarily in that order. 

---

Debian 12 Beardog, SoxDog and still a Conky 1.9er

ohnonot

...again

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 5,592

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

HoaS is "always" a good source.

yes, i was thinking to completely remove the search bar from my browser.

(scnr)

Head_on_a_Stick

Member

From: London

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 9,093

Website

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

^

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=206307

this thread:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=206307
has all the answers you need. both pro & con.

Hmmm...

]:D

EDIT: sorry OP, I couldn't resist either...  :8

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-04-08 09:20:00)

---

Para todos todo, para nosotros nada

ohnonot

...again

Registered: 2015-09-29

Posts: 5,592

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

^ exactly! i don't need a search engine anymore as long as you are around!
]:D

Sector11

Mod Squid Tpyo Knig

From: Upstairs

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 8,030

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

^ What we need is: BunsenLabs Search Engine = wireless link to HoaS Brain.   

---

Debian 12 Beardog, SoxDog and still a Conky 1.9er

damo

....moderator....

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 6,734

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

Head_on_a_Stick's favourite search engine...

---

Be Excellent to Each Other...
The Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop » Here
FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

Sector11

Mod Squid Tpyo Knig

From: Upstairs

Registered: 2015-08-20

Posts: 8,030

Re: A 'rolling release' server? [ANSWERED]

Well done damo!

---

Debian 12 Beardog, SoxDog and still a Conky 1.9er