Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

ohnonot · 2017-01-06 05:09:13

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I prefer to recommend USBWriter as that has no settings to mess up:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/usbwriter/

so that one just magically knows what the user wants/needs?

anyhow, i'll keep it in mind.

it would be good if there really was a one-size-fits-all solution for windows users.

edit:
i'm sure i meant soon-to-be-ex windows users

Last edited by ohnonot (2017-01-06 05:09:43)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-01-06 07:53:14

ohnonot wrote:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/usbwriter/
so that one just magically knows what the user wants/needs?

Well, unlike {Rufus,unetbootin} it does not attempt to modify the ISO image and just transfers it directly.

This means that it will not work with non-hybrid ISO images, it's the reverse of the unetbootin SNAFU.

Horizon_Brave · 2017-01-06 13:34:57

**potential incoming topic derailment ***

Can anyone elaborate when you say modify the iso?
I know this is the reason Rufus and unetbootin on windows to burn the hybridiso to a Usb isn't recommended (don't do it!) but what does it actually need to change? Does anyone know what it tries to run that would need and why it would need to modify the hybridiso that debian uses?

**potential derailment**. You've been warned!

photonucleon · 2017-01-06 14:49:16

Horizon_Brave wrote:

**potential incoming topic derailment ***
Can anyone elaborate when you say modify the iso?
I know this is the reason Rufus and unetbootin on windows to burn the hybridiso to a Usb isn't recommended (don't do it!) but what does it actually need to change? Does anyone know what it tries to run that would need and why it would need to modify the hybridiso that debian uses?
**potential derailment**. You've been warned!

AFAIK: Rather than just copy the disk image onto the drive, unetbootin extracts the files from the iso and then copies them to the drive. Of course, this gives you a drive with a bunch of files on, not a bootable disk, so it then installs its own version of the bootloader and points that bootloader at the OS files. The advantage here is that it is possible to have other files on the drive apart from the live OS, so it can be used both as a bootable USB and as a normal storage USB (as long as you don't modify the OS files that unetbootin extracted). The disadvantage is that the unetbootin process basically rips apart a perfectly working iso (which already had its own bootloader etc) and re-stitches it back together in a slightly haphazard way. This can work fine for some distros, but in my experience it is usually hit and miss, and almost always causes major problems with Debian/#!/BL.

Horizon_Brave · 2017-01-06 15:41:46

photonucleon wrote:

Horizon_Brave wrote:
**potential incoming topic derailment ***
Can anyone elaborate when you say modify the iso?
I know this is the reason Rufus and unetbootin on windows to burn the hybridiso to a Usb isn't recommended (don't do it!) but what does it actually need to change? Does anyone know what it tries to run that would need and why it would need to modify the hybridiso that debian uses?
**potential derailment**. You've been warned!
AFAIK: Rather than just copy the disk image onto the drive, unetbootin extracts the files from the iso and then copies them to the drive. Of course, this gives you a drive with a bunch of files on, not a bootable disk, so it then installs its own version of the bootloader and points that bootloader at the OS files. The advantage here is that it is possible to have other files on the drive apart from the live OS, so it can be used both as a bootable USB and as a normal storage USB (as long as you don't modify the OS files that unetbootin extracted). The disadvantage is that the unetbootin process basically rips apart a perfectly working iso (which already had its own bootloader etc) and re-stitches it back together in a slightly haphazard way. This can work fine for some distros, but in my experience it is usually hit and miss, and almost always causes major problems with Debian/#!/BL.

Ah, awesome explanation, thanks! Hmm it seems to me that those tools should have an option then to write 'as is' like DD does, and another option for their own butchery of the iso. I suppose the whole hybridiso wasn't a thing back when they were written...

ohnonot · 2017-01-07 09:06:21

^ yes, i suspect historical reasons, too...

Live media are a fairly new accomplishment.
Also the move from CD to USB.

what bothers me is that some .isos seem to require a different burning technique, i.e. they can't just be dd'd to the stick (but it's a long while i came across one of those).
it should be possible to see that by analyzing the .iso itself? so that the burner app can make a decision programmatically?

anyhow, as the situation is right now, there just doesn't seem to be a one-size-fits-all solution (yet).
judging from threads across all boards, it's the nr.1 biggest hurdle to take for linux newbs, and seems to filter out quite a few right from the start. i mean those threads that start with "Help! install linux, black screen!" where op isn't even able to pinpoint the problem (is the download corrupt, have you used the right burn method, is it an efi issue...) and simply stops responding after a while.

but i suspect "the dd method" will prevail in the end.

good thing too, because by then the users of alternative OS will be challenged with a handful of new right-from-the-start problems...

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-01-07 11:44:21

ohnonot wrote:

it should be possible to see that by analyzing the .iso itself?

Yes, it is

The so-called "hybrid" ISO images (such as BunsenLabs) include a partition table in the image and this can be viewed:

fdisk -l bl-Hydrogen-amd64_20160710.iso

Older, non-hybrid images do not have this table.

In fact, the reason why unetbootin fails is because it attempts to add some partition table information to the ISO

Of course, the great irony of unetbootin is that it is pure bloat — non-hybrid ISO images can be converted for use with the `dd` command by simply running:

isohybrid example.iso

http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Isohybrid

#21 2017-01-06 05:09:13

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

#22 2017-01-06 07:53:14

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

#23 2017-01-06 13:34:57

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

#24 2017-01-06 14:49:16

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

#25 2017-01-06 15:41:46

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

#26 2017-01-07 09:06:21

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

#27 2017-01-07 11:44:21

Re: Tip: Etcher - GUI for flashing OS images to SD cards & USB

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