Do I really "need" Google

Temetka · 2016-09-09 19:35:14

Here's a quick search. Maybe you tried it, maybe not

Last edited by Temetka (2016-09-09 19:40:04)

oswriter · 2016-09-09 20:29:28

I just have a second Google account that I only use with the smartphone. It does not have my real name or contact information, so I don't care if Google is mining the data.

johnraff · 2016-09-10 00:34:22

^Yes, that's what I meant.

Google Privacy Terms wrote:

Device information
We collect device-specific information (such as your hardware model, operating system version, unique device identifiers, and mobile network information including phone number). Google may associate your device identifiers or phone number with your Google Account.

They're going to identify your device anyway, so what does it matter if they associate it with some bogus account?

ututo · 2016-09-10 23:56:46

Hello, compatriota!

It's sad but if you don't use a google account in your device you will lose some features that make life easier with the phone.
What I do is, as many fellows here suggest, is to create a new account to use with google services and play store.
On the other hand, when I had CM installed in my phone I found the binomial F-Droid + APK Downloader a great alternative.

glittersloth · 2016-09-11 00:43:09

oswriter wrote:

I just have a second Google account that I only use with the smartphone. It does not have my real name or contact information, so I don't care if Google is mining the data.

Short of jumping head first into the whole rooting/flashing/jailbreaking/sex-with-unicorn hole, this is what I'd recommend for any mobile platform, or any OS that requires an email associated ID of any kind. You can obviously take it many steps further depending on what you need done - third party repositories, Tor, VPNs, debit card from separate bank for purchases, signal-blocking phone cases, plastic surgery, etc - but that's a bare minimum.

ohnonot · 2016-09-12 06:06:08

^ this.

and just to say it again, commenting on previous posts:

you do not need to register with any account to use an android smartphone.

install the f-droid app, and after that you can install a few essential apps (offline calendar, k9-mail and firefox were the only ones i really needed), and you're good to go.
of course the choice of apps is not as big as on the playstore; it's a bit like linux compared to windows, lol.
and if you really really need some apk that has no alternative at all on f-droid, you can still use the apk downloader.

====================

sidenote on alternative gmail accounts:

apart from the argument that they get all your data anyway, so the email address itself is not so important, here's another thing:
i played that rigmarole a while ago only to realize that google takes note of all other accounts that contact that "safe" account, so unless you only use it from tor or vpn or public library, and only ever receive mail on it, they most probably already know that it belongs to your main account - and also tell you so at some point.

there's no such thing as a safe gmail account.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-07-03 09:51:18)

MsMattie · 2016-09-13 20:52:00

I not only use a secondary google account on android phones and tablets, but also different user accounts for any other web sites, like reddit or flipboard or whatever. And I NEVER do anything on a tablet or android that involves money. Some would consider it paranoid. But I consider them more easily lost or stolen or breached. When I wrap things up in a self encrypted SSD on a pc or laptop, it may be breakable by someone somewhere, but there is far easier prey elsewhere for the criminally minded.

barnabyh · 2016-09-14 22:27:01

If you can still return the phone I recommend getting a Wileyfox Swift with CyanogenMod and using it with VPN or Orbot/Tor for any wifi/data plan.

I'ld normally turn the GPS off on my standard Android phone but it's actually really helpful to plan work travel on Maps and seeing where I am, if walking in the right direction and so on. And I'm doing a lot of that. Helped me not getting lost so many times, which happened a fair bit before I had this... 8o

ohnonot · 2016-09-15 05:54:34

barnabyh wrote:

Wileyfox Swift with CyanogenMod

that looks nice.
what makes you think it is somehow safer/better than you standard samsung (at least i assume that's what you mean, since you posted it here)?

btw, that wileyfox comes with cyanogen os, which is absolutely not the same as cyanogenmod: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=difference+be … yanogenmod

barnabyh · 2016-09-16 10:53:44

Ah, right. Well, I didn't get enough into phones to find out the difference.

I bought the phone for my wife. Apart from being inexpensive and without contract it's also got very good reviews and seems the best of the three models they currently have on offer in terms of bang for the buck. It's certainly responsive. She does a lot of stuff incl. some light gaming and a lot of communicating with IM's and voice and the battery always lasts about two days the least.

The reasons why I think it's better suited is the built in privacy features, the restriction of background data and phoning home, and the ability to give fine grained permissions, in terms of allowing apps access instead of the other way around. It doesn't have too many things preloaded and you can remove any app rather than just disabling where it's still taking up space. The choice of apps is more privacy oriented. The OS itself didn't take up as much space as Samsung Android. It also has built-in spam caller ID.

That and the battery life, dual-sim capability (here in Europe Samsung phones only come with one sim and one sd card slot) and that it looks quite decent for the price and doesn't feel flimsy. It's certainly a much cheaper option than the Black Phone.

Hope that answers your question.

barnabyh · 2016-09-16 12:20:08

Just to add to the above. When we got it there wasn't much Google stuff installed. It was Cyanogen 12.1 then and that was last year so my memory isn't so fresh, but it may have been only the search box and the Play store. You could remove all that and then use the DDG widget.

Paired with a VPN and installing a minimal browser like Ghostery or even Opera Mini I think it should be reasonable.

KrunchTime · 2016-09-18 22:33:52

lcafiero wrote:

There is some voodoo involved in transferring files via USB, and it can be done (I have transferred files back and forth via USB), but it's hard to pinpoint the exact location of where the mp3 files should go. I gave up a long time ago and got some ringtones from Zedge (mostly 2001: A Space Odyssey ringtones and message tones).

Get WiFi File Transfer Pro...no voodoo required.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The only way I could get rid of the Google rubbish from my smartphone was to wipe the (Samsung) operating system and put Cyanogenmod on it.
It now has a 5 day battery life (!) compared to 2 days with the stock OS
Unfortunately, installing CM is quite technical and can brick the phone; I can't seem to find a CM13 image for your model either

Doing what you did will also void the warranty here in the US. I don't know about the UK or Argentina.

johnraff wrote:

If it's about GPS tracking or the like, your device already has plenty of unique identifiers: MAC address etc...

And Sector11's phone may have the option to disable GPS tracking; mine does.

MsMattie wrote:

And I NEVER do anything on a tablet or android that involves money. Some would consider it paranoid. But I consider them more easily lost or stolen or breached. When I wrap things up in a self encrypted SSD on a pc or laptop, it may be breakable by someone somewhere, but there is far easier prey elsewhere for the criminally minded.

I will not even log into anything with my phone or tablet and I do not store my passwords (other than Google) on either device. I don't trust the tech and then there's the issue of Android bugs or security issues never getting fixed on a lot of phones.

@Sector11: You'll need a Google account if you want to install any additional apps from the Google Play Store. I also use Google Voice, which is a very useful service. With the Google Voice app, you'll be prompted whether you want to place a call or send a text using your cellphone number or your Google Voice number. Google Voice is da bomb for warding off marketing miscreants and prank calls. Just mark them as spam via your Google Voice account...no more phone calls from that number. The only time when that wouldn't work is when you get calls from numbers that show up as Private Name...Private Number. I do not ever give out my cellphone number. I give out my Google Voice number for everything.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2016-09-18 22:52:23)

Sector11 · 2016-09-18 23:33:22

I have been away from the keyboard for a bit. But have read everything here.

1. I am not (had no plans to) 'brick' the phone. It's not mine, it's my wife's, and I like my neck without a slit from ear to ear.

2. She opted to get a gmail account (first and only) and says she will not use it, it's just there. She has not touched "Chrome" because it wants the gmail account, her name etc.

All she wanted to do was get a few ringtones, she managed that on her own without 'signing up for anything' and she has a nice wallpaper.

Now it's: make phone calls, and SMS messages, she isn't interested in anything else.

GPS tracking is OFF, since my wife want nothing to do with Google - other than the fake gmail account, she has stated matter of factly that she will never sign up for Google Apps or Google Play. That made me feel good. And as for Whatsapp ... she saw she needs Google ... and Internet. "Nope SMS is good enough for me" she said.

Basically I guess all my stuff is answered, but others can benefit from this as well.

@ barnabyh - this Cyanogen OS sounds interesting - but not available here. From all companies it's wither: Windows or Android - and of course iPhone with whatever that has.

@ KrunchTime - the idea was she (we) didn't want anything google - in the end she got a fake gmail account.

EDIT: RE: Whatsapp and a few other things ... she found out when they say:

* Data charges may apply. Contact your provider for details.

they do apply!

Last edited by Sector11 (2016-09-18 23:36:40)

KrunchTime · 2016-09-19 02:22:00

Sector11 wrote:

1. I am not (had no plans to) 'brick' the phone. It's not mine, it's my wife's, and I like my neck without a slit from ear to ear.

Sector11 wrote:

2. She opted to get a gmail account (first and only) and says she will not use it, it's just there.

All she needed, or should have needed, is a Google account. Signing up for Gmail is optional, as is any other service offered by Google. OTOH, perhaps things have changed since I established my Google account years ago.

Sector1 wrote:

...since my wife want nothing to do with Google - other than the fake gmail account, she has stated matter of factly that she will never sign up for Google Apps or Google Play.

To update any existing Google apps on the phone, you'll need Google Play. Since Google uses single sign-on technology, her Gmail credentials should work for Google Play. Don't think that just because your wife doesn't need any Google apps that she shouldn't need to perform updates. There's at least one app that I know of that is important to the functioning of apps on the phone. I think the app is called Google Web Services or something like that.

Sector11 wrote:

EDIT: RE: Whatsapp and a few other things ... she found out when they say:
* Data charges may apply. Contact your provider for details. 
they do apply!

Don't know what Whatsapp is, but the apps on your phone usually sip data, unless you're streaming music or video. Of course, don't perform updates via your cell service.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2016-09-19 02:23:44)

ohnonot · 2016-09-19 05:48:18

^ although krunchtime seems to advocate google's marvellous "we-protect-your-privacy-if-you-tell-us-everything-about-yourself" apps, s/he also points out one undeniable truth:
it's called google android for a reason. you can't have it without google.(*)

S11, please have a look at the cyanogenmod list of devices for which a release/snapshot exists. if your wife's phone is on it, it's really safe to install.
they also have a subforum for all major devices on xda-developers forums (although this forum's a mess, impossible to navigate, just put your device in the search box).

i applaude your wife's attitude towards google and whatsapp.

f-droid is a viable alternative these days, and if you really, really need something from the app store, there's always apk-downloader.

(*) not if you still have warranty and want updates and are not going to install android from source.

Last edited by ohnonot (2016-09-19 05:50:30)

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-18 15:04:02

Heya fellow Nixer long time no see ( or babble )

Jmo but what's the use of having a smartphone if someone cripples it. For real in the 21st century privacy isn't practical nor realistic anymore. There are so many ways to track and watch someone, losing sleep over it w/o good cause is futile. ie: Your carrier can easily see every call you make/receive on that phone. Your ISP or someone else watching your net travels can track you all over online. VPN, anony proxy this, that or not. If you want to install apps from the Google Play store then yeah you'll need to set up an acct. There are other reputable ( sorta) app stores around. Amazon maintains one, the Opera browser maker people do too. Where you can install them directly from the browser and there are others, f-droids been mentioned. In addition to other places too.

Edit: Oops just for the record someone imo needs to exercise caution when installing apps from the Play store too. Not like malware has never slipped in there. Not to mention bogging down your mobile OS with tonnes of stuff you don't need/want.

You can also side load apk's = android app binaries. Though as with Gnu/Nix it's not recommended for someone to just go around installing software from untrusted sources. Also as with Nix there are some people who want to try to be android purists. Not install anything proprietary etc so forth and for the vast majority it's just not practical nor enjoyable to take that route. If someone wants to do that, they may as well get a flip phone me thinks. Thinking you'll just have to roll up your sleeves and do some learning about this mobile OS. Just like you did with Gnu/Nix. While doing so don't lose sleep over the CIA or KGB tracking you and don't be afraid to break things either. Can always restore the phone to factory and dig in again.

If you really get the bug. Can start learning about stuff like whether you can carrier unlock your device ( if it's not already), unlock the boot loader and root the sucker. Install custom ROM's etc so forth. Am nowhere near up to speed on any of that myself.

But have complete faith in you dude. Now get in there and dig around in that androids guts dood ! Welcome to a brave new mobile world.

PS, best wishes to all the cool Nixers here. Hope ya'll are all doing well. VLBLL!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-18 15:18:20)

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-18 16:47:41

Not so fast MORE BABBLE.

Not that I don't agree that it's mildly disturbing how deeply integrated Google Inc is in Android. Not surprising it's their baby and they've spent a ton of $$$ developing and pushing it. All told think android represents the best choice though, iOS or M$ being the others. Havent really gotten into mobile gnu/nix OS options as of yet.

Personally disabled ALOT of stuff, Location/GPS, auto sync, restricted apps running in the background, disabled automatic app updates, this, that ... abuncha other stuff and of course managed to bork the Play Store more than once and resorted to factory reset. Doh ... then retweaked and borked some more.

You can disable a bunch of the Google apps/services in the Settings > Apps section. Though be careful if it starts saying things like "the factory version will be installed". A buncha them are safe to disable w/o problems. Though as in Gnu/Nix some things may depend on other things and disabling xyz can have quirky effects on how the Android OS operates. Should also be cautious of clearing caches randomly and etc.

Mostly disabled things to save on system resources. Have always been, will always be a compulsive software tweaker on any platform. Seeing ma precious system resources squandered makes me teeth itch ! Drastically reduced screen brightness, turned off vibrate when tapping the keyboard keys. Minimized use of widgets on the home screen. Wifi and bluetooth off when not using blahblah. Got rid of of bunch of the default oem apps due to them being too heavy imo and installed and set lighter default ones instead.

If you can find a good app to backup/restore installed apps and any licenses for paid stuff you have onboard. You can likely disable the google acct but next time you want to use the Play store would just have to set one up again. Think to really get under androids hood, someone has to learn to root the sucker at the very least. Not all devices are root friendly, unlockable friendly etc etc.

Should've done more research on the one I bought, turns out it's oem boot loader unlock unfriendly. So ROM experimentation is going to be hindered for me. Haven't worked up the desire, knowledge or nerve yet to see if it's practical to mess with all that. Will have to pay better attention next time and get a root/ROM flash friendlier device. Have seen it said that most Nexus devices ( made by google.) are boot loader unlock, root and flash friendly. Along with some other oem's.

Think many of the default settings on Android, in my case v 5.1.1 can make a persons experience more enjoyable. Some people like the voice activated search widget running on their home screen all the time. The resources it's using are worth it to them. To me would rather start it when I want it to be running. GPS or location can be helpful, like if you lose your phone or have tracking apps to find it. For some folks they want GPS enabled, so location aware services can give them relevant local results. ( though you can set it to use something less precise like network to get approximate location too.) I disabled it cause didn't want it or any apps firing up and wasting my battery.

Here's an interesting one, at least on this device was enabled default in Settings > General > Security > Phone administrators. There's a check box for Android device Manager and it'll tell you if this is enabled that it'll allow the device manager to lock or erase a lost device. Apparently you can go to a web portal maintained by Google, enter your info and it can lock and wipe a lost or stolen device.

This could come in handy. Of course chose to disable it. Hey Sector also notice while in the Security section of Settings there's a check box for "Unknown sources" that has to be enabled to install apps from outside app sources or to side load the suckers. Also one for verify apps, not sure if that has to be disabled or not. Whew alright ... one more, all this stuff awaits on your favorite search engine and by dorking with stuff until you get a handle on it.

Enable Developer Options. Settings > General > About Phone > Software info then tap on the Build number 7-10 times. It'll tell you you're about to become a developer. Keep tapping as many times as it takes till it tell you Congrats you're a Developer. Go back out into the General section of settings and there'll be a new option. Developer Options above the about Phone thingy. Now you can turn this on/off here. There's a few settings of interest in this section. This mainly applies if you're going to attempt to unlock your phones boot loader, root and flash a ROM to it.

If/when you decide to do this, check the box for Stay awake, don't know if strictly necessary but it'll keep the device from going to sleep while someone is trying to unlock the boot loader etc. Check the one for Enable OEM unlock. Supposedly if you get a corrupt OTA = over the air update that borks it, w/o this enabled it's supposed to be hard as hades from someone to recover the device. Don't know if it's true just something I'd come across while researching junk. Also supposedly this aids in unlocking the boot loader and finally enable usb debugging here. Blahblahblah.

Edit oops, would uncheck the box for stay awake and usb debugging unless/until you are ready to try rooting the sucker. No reason to leave them enabled otherwise eh.

Whew, that's my two babble cents on this. Still think out of all the main stream mobile OS's Android's the most transparent and customizable. Google's not doing anything so nefarious, at least nothing any diff than M$ OS, or iOS anyway. Approach it like you did learning about Gnu/Linux partner and enjoy your new gadget Sector.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-18 17:35:23)

Sector11 · 2016-11-18 18:00:29

BLwillbegreat! wrote:

Heya fellow Nixer long time no see ( or babble )

OMG! Long time ... soooooooo good to see/hear from you

Now to get a coffee and read the two books...

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-18 18:05:17

LMAO Sector.

Only thing I'm really worried about is if you get bitten hard by the Android bug. Your wife may never be able to get her new phone away from you.

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-18 18:58:46

Btw: Per usual find meself jealous of HOAS. Five dys of battery life !!?!?!?! Arghhhhhh, green with envy, blue with envy.

#21 2016-09-09 19:35:14

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#22 2016-09-09 20:29:28

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#23 2016-09-10 00:34:22

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#24 2016-09-10 23:56:46

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#37 2016-11-18 16:47:41

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#38 2016-11-18 18:00:29

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