Why Installing From a USB Is Difficult

Horizon_Brave · 2016-06-15 23:52:50

Hey everyone. So after seeing a few different topics on booting/installing from a USB drive, it got me thinking... What is it that makes writing the Bunsen live image to a USB, and then booting from it and installing the OS to a HDD/SDD, so problematic? Maybe not exactly "problematic" but what makes booting and isntalling the OS from a USB drive so different than doing it from a normal CD/DVD?

There are a few tools like unetbootin and rufus that seem to be available to handle this, but I've seen on here that there are issues with using them and the install process may not actually work. Is it something on Bunsen's side that involves the partition table? Is it just the live iso that has this issue with the USB tools like unetbootin?

I suppose i'm looking more for an underlying issue here that causes USB installs to differ from CD/DVD installs.

Tony · 2016-06-16 01:39:45

I used Win32 Disk Imager from Windows 7 to make my USB drive. It works with Bunsen if that helps.

Sector11 · 2016-06-16 02:10:04

With unetbootin is a case of Ubuntu not being compatible with Debian. The reast I don't know.

But is cp & or dd work, I'm happy.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-16 06:44:23

Horizon_Brave wrote:

Is it just the live iso that has this issue with the USB tools like unetbootin

^ This, although I would reverse that statement.

The Debian ISO images (and hence the BL images) are of the so-called "iso-hybrid" type.

These type of ISO images can be burned directly to both CD/DVDs and USB sticks without further modification.

As such, the recommended techniques should be used.

There is no ambiguity here, the methods are clearly linked in the BunsenLabs site Installation section:
https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb

From that link:

Please note, that Debian advises not using unetbootin for this task. It can cause difficult-to-diagnose problems with booting and installing, so is not recommended.

The reason why tools such as unetbootin fail is because they they attempt to modify the ISO image as if it were an old-style non-isohybrid image (this used to be needed to boot a CD ISO image on a USB stick way back in the stone ages). This is not needed and will break isohybrid ISO images.

cloverskull · 2016-06-16 15:54:03

Sounds like unetbootin needs to be updated.

You can file or peruse bugs here and optionally just ask for bunsenlabs to have a bundled install option. But this seems like something they'll want to fix on their end since debian is a commonly used distro.

xaos52 · 2016-06-16 16:03:28

No, no, no ...

unetbootin is a relic of the past. Should be obsoleted instead!

Sector11 · 2016-06-16 16:08:29

It belongs in The Deborian Museum of Ancient Linux Software.

dolly · 2016-06-16 19:48:32

Thanks for the explanation Head_on_a_Stick.

pvsage · 2016-06-16 21:45:17

cloverskull wrote:

this seems like something they won't want to fix on their end since debian is not Ubuntu.

Fixed.

Eraph · 2016-06-16 22:47:52

dolly wrote:

Thanks for the explanation Head_on_a_Stick.

+1

Horizon_Brave · 2016-06-16 23:55:20

Eraph wrote:

dolly wrote:
Thanks for the explanation Head_on_a_Stick.
+1

+1 as well!

Thanks as always HoaS! (and +1 for me for asking )

Makes sense though, which is why doing the dd ( or dcfldd) or cp method works better since you're by passing any assumptions about the format of the iso and target.

Eraph · 2016-06-17 00:15:19

Horizon_Brave wrote:

(and +1 for me for asking )

Indeed! It's something I suppose I always wondered but never thought to ask.

Tony · 2016-06-17 01:07:48

I use unetbootin to make Puppy live drives. It allows you to allocate space on the drive and turns on persistence. I have to give it cu-does for that.

bra10n · 2016-06-17 02:01:42

I'm not sure if this is at all relevant to the topic, but this is something I notice each time I write a BL iso to usb;

having to write the iso twice... note the differences in time taken, write speeds using the identical command.

Mod Note: Oversized image replaced with thumbnail link, please limit images to ~250x250px
-HoaS

Horizon_Brave · 2016-06-17 04:47:31

bra10n, just out of curiosity, why *did* you have to write the iso twice to the usb? You wrote it to the same partition, so what was the point of that?

Also, does that difference in speed fluctuate each time you write? If you use a gui tool to burn a disc or something, do you see the same speed variations?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-17 06:32:18

bra10n wrote:

note the differences in time taken, write speeds using the identical command.

Looks like the first time it just writes to the buffer cache

Are you running one of Manjaro's weird-ass unusual kernels?

uname -a
cat /proc/cmdline

Also, please post text (using code tags) rather than pictures of text -- some forum users have very limited bandwidth

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-06-17 06:33:00)

bra10n · 2016-06-17 07:03:53

[bra10n@manjaro ~]$ uname -a
Linux manjaro 4.7.0-1-MANJARO #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Jun 12 18:07:02 UTC 2016 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Here's an iso write for my Intel Compute Stick;

image redacted -HoaS

No need to write twice there.

I have no idea what is happening TBH... merely a suggestion this situation might be the cause of some complaining about failed bl iso -> usb. Maybe not.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-06-17 07:08:50)

bra10n · 2016-06-17 07:04:59

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Also, please post text (using code tags) rather than pictures of text -- some forum users have very limited bandwidth

Just saw your edit. Apologies, and noted.

Last edited by bra10n (2016-06-17 07:05:37)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-06-17 07:07:25

bra10n wrote:

[bra10n@manjaro ~]$ uname -a
Linux manjaro 4.7.0-1-MANJARO #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Jun 12 18:07:02 UTC 2016 x86_64 GNU/Linux

That's an RC kernel...
https://kernel.org/

Does it work normally with a stable kernel?

All the cases of reported failed transcriptions so far have been due to the user not reading the instructions, there are no faults with the ISO image so far.

EDIT: Thanks for reporting this

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-06-17 07:09:52)

bra10n · 2016-06-17 07:30:17

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Does it work normally with a stable kernel?
All the cases of reported failed transcriptions so far have been due to the user not reading the instructions, there are no faults with the ISO image so far.
EDIT: Thanks for reporting this

To be clear I wasn't pointing any fingers or hinting at any failures. I simply offerred my observations as to how dd & BL iso's behave for me here on a Manjaro base. The kernel, whether an RC or stable makes absolutely no difference here as can be seen with the 14.04 iso write above.

My only wish is this info is somewhat helpful to you.

cheers

#1 2016-06-15 23:52:50

Why Installing From a USB Is Difficult

#2 2016-06-16 01:39:45

Re: Why Installing From a USB Is Difficult

#3 2016-06-16 02:10:04

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#4 2016-06-16 06:44:23

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#5 2016-06-16 15:54:03

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#6 2016-06-16 16:03:28

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#7 2016-06-16 16:08:29

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#8 2016-06-16 19:48:32

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#9 2016-06-16 21:45:17

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#10 2016-06-16 22:47:52

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#11 2016-06-16 23:55:20

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#12 2016-06-17 00:15:19

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#14 2016-06-17 02:01:42

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