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#1 2016-04-02 12:17:46

xaos52
The Good Doctor
From: Planet of the @pes
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 695

[OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

This is a request for user feedback on the bunsenlabs exit functionality, more specifically the dialog window we show when selecting the exit option from the main menu.

As it is, we don't provide a 'Hibernate' functionalty.
If you are interested in this, and you want your opinion to count in a couple of decisions we have to make, please answer following questions;

Q1. Would you use that functionalty?

Q2. For 'Hibernate' to work, you need to set up adequate swap space.
       When the swap space is not sufficient to hibernate, choose one of the options below:

       1. I don't want to see the hibernate button.

       2. I do want to see the hibernate button. When I click on it I want to see a dialog window
           pop up with a short explanation as to why the function is not working. Pressing any key
           will destroy both the popup window and the buttons window.

       3. I do want to see the hibernate button. When I click on it, the screen with the buttons will
           be destroyed, an error message will be written to $HOME/.xsession-errors, but there
           will be no visual user feedback explaining why hibernate did not work.

      4. I do want to see the hibernate button, but I want the button disabled (greyed out), not
          clickable.

We would appreciate your feedback very much.

Thanks

Last edited by johnraff (2019-02-20 02:46:02)

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#2 2016-04-02 14:03:55

kozimodo
Member
Registered: 2015-10-04
Posts: 40

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Q1: I do not typically use hibernate

Q2: If I do not have enough swap space, I do not want to see the hibernate button.

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#3 2016-04-02 14:19:52

tynman
Member
Registered: 2015-10-13
Posts: 80

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Q1 - Yes

Q2 - option 1

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#4 2016-04-02 15:20:51

Sector11
The Tpyo Knig Mod
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,454

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Q1 - No

Q2 - 1. I don't want to see the hibernate button.

EDIT:  Q2 - 1 is my option.  I was going to suggest some of the suggestions that follow as well:

IE: should be visible.

If I may since I am not a programmer ...

Is it possible to have a "section in the "Welcome" script" that asks:

Do you want to use Hibernate: Yes | No
- You chose 'No' - Do you want to see the [Hibernate] button anyway (it will be deactivated):  Yes | No

Just a thought.

Last edited by Sector11 (2016-04-02 18:27:39)


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#5 2016-04-02 15:22:49

Horizon_Brave
Operating System: Linux-Nettrix
Registered: 2015-10-18
Posts: 1,473

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Q1:  Hmm I personally wouldn't need it, I VM most of my Bunsen boxes. And the one BunsenLabs I have install on actual hardware I have on a laptop. So usually I just shut the lid. xD  BUT that being said, I think for others, who aren't in my use case scenario, should have the option to see the hibernate button. What is the good of hiding it? Who benefits from that?

Q2: It should be there for people to see, AND provide a clear explanation as to why it wouldn't work if they don't meet the minimum need for the swap space required amounts.  The point should be to provide an option, as well as keeping the user informed as to what it actually happening and why it's happening, not to just show something and mask what it's doing. If they or us want that then move to Windows 10.


"I have not failed, I have found 10,000 ways that will not work" -Edison

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#6 2016-04-02 17:32:31

o9000
tint2 developer
From: Network Neighborhood
Registered: 2015-10-24
Posts: 398
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Q1 I don't use hibernate

Q2 It should be there. Option 2 seems best.

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#7 2016-04-02 18:45:37

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,008

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

I don't use Hibernate.

Option 2 seems OK, if it only appears when Hibernate is a possibility.


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#8 2016-04-02 18:47:49

ghorvath
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 142

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

I personally do not use hibernate that often, but I already rewrote bl-exit on all of my machines to have it if I need it. Thus

Q1: Yes, absolutely, please put in hibernate.

Q2: I know it was not among the options, but maybe greyed button and if mouse is hovered over it then some explanation on why that is not working.

Further: if the user realizes that they want to use hibernation but cannot because of insufficient swap space, it may already be too late. I know bunsenlabs uses the debian installer, but maybe it could be modified so somewhere the user could be notified to have enough space if want to use hibernation?

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#9 2016-04-02 19:11:38

Sector11
The Tpyo Knig Mod
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,454

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Actually ghorvath brings up a good point.

Better to have something and not need it than not have it and need it.

After all, it's only a [Button].  smile


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#10 2016-04-03 06:05:20

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,590
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

xaos52 wrote:

Q1. Would you use that functionalty?

Maybe sometime in the future, on a laptop. I can't see any reason for a desktop to have Hibernate.

Q2. For 'Hibernate' to work, you need to set up adequate swap space.
       When the swap space is not sufficient to hibernate, choose one of the options below:

       1. I don't want to see the hibernate button.

This option please. I don't want to see a non-functioning button whenever I shut down.

damo wrote:

Option 2 seems OK, if it only appears when Hibernate is a possibility.

My understanding was that the options in the 2nd question were for what to offer when Hibernate is not a possibility.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#11 2016-04-03 09:45:28

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

xaos52 wrote:

Q1. Would you use that functionalty?

No.

xaos52 wrote:

       1. I don't want to see the hibernate button.

^ This.

smile


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#12 2016-04-03 15:25:23

Horizon_Brave
Operating System: Linux-Nettrix
Registered: 2015-10-18
Posts: 1,473

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Again, what's the harm though, is displaying a hibernate button, as long as their is a reason explaining why a particular user can not use it? If anything it'll be more informative, perhaps aiding them in their decision for their next install, to use more swap if they want that sort of thing.


"I have not failed, I have found 10,000 ways that will not work" -Edison

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#13 2016-04-03 15:54:06

torq
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 12

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Q1. Would you use that functionalty?
No.

Q2:
I don't want to see the hibernate button.

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#14 2016-04-03 21:02:27

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,064

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

ghorvath wrote:

I personally do not use hibernate that often, but I already rewrote bl-exit on all of my machines to have it if I need it. Thus

Q1: Yes, absolutely, please put in hibernate.

Q2: I know it was not among the options, but maybe greyed button and if mouse is hovered over it then some explanation on why that is not working.

Further: if the user realizes that they want to use hibernation but cannot because of insufficient swap space, it may already be too late. I know bunsenlabs uses the debian installer, but maybe it could be modified so somewhere the user could be notified to have enough space if want to use hibernation?

+1


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#15 2016-04-04 00:10:42

Eraph
Member
From: /au/qld/bne
Registered: 2016-02-29
Posts: 282
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

xaos52 wrote:

Q1. Would you use that functionalty?

I use suspend all the time, I might be inclined to use hibernate if I'm travelling so it would be good to know it's there.

xaos52 wrote:

Q2. For 'Hibernate' to work, you need to set up adequate swap space.

I'll go with:
       2. I do want to see the hibernate button. When I click on it I want to see a dialog window
           pop up with a short explanation as to why the function is not working. Pressing any key
           will destroy both the popup window and the buttons window.


Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 | BunsenLabs Hydrogen (x64)
Intel Core i7-3537U | Intel HD4000 | 8GB DDR3 | 256GB SSD

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#16 2016-04-04 13:13:13

becker_11
Member
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2015-12-30
Posts: 55
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Answers

Q1: No
Q2: option 1

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#17 2016-04-04 19:43:39

tknomanzr
BL Die Hard
From: Around the Bend
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,029

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

I was wondering, would hibernate actually work in conjunction with light-locker? The whole purpose of hibernate to my way of thinking is to save session state, which will be lost anyway once light-locker kicks you back to the login screen.

To be fair, I can get hibernate to work but have yet to get my laptop to come resume back from a hibernate.

SO atm I don't care about hibernate and am of the opinion you don't show users options they dont have in any gui design.

Last edited by tknomanzr (2016-04-04 19:44:15)

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#18 2016-04-05 08:26:54

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,590
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

tknomanzr wrote:

I was wondering, would hibernate actually work in conjunction with light-locker? The whole purpose of hibernate to my way of thinking is to save session state, which will be lost anyway once light-locker kicks you back to the login screen.

I'm not sure if that's necessarily true. Suspend, for example, while requiring a password login, does return to the previous session as it was (at least on my laptop), so why not hibernate too?

That said, I agree about not showing users non-functional options. (if they prove to be non-functional)


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#19 2016-04-05 09:36:34

xaos52
The Good Doctor
From: Planet of the @pes
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 695

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

I'm not sure if that's necessarily true. Suspend, for example, while requiring a password login, does return to the previous session as it was (at least on my laptop), so why not hibernate too?

That is correct.
Coming from hibernate state, your system reboots. Early in the reboot process it detects that it has to wake from hibernate, and it restores the memory image it has from the swap space - which includes your session state of course, and launches lightdm to ask for your password. There is no interaction/clash with light-locker.

That said, I agree about not showing users non-functional options. (if they prove to be non-functional)

Which means the program needs to test each option before it shows the gui. It is possible of course, but it means checking if a feature will work before you know which feature the user intends to use. Testing all buttons functionality while only one button can be clicked. And this testing has be done every time the bl-exit screen is shown.

There is also the inhibitor locks to take into account.
Which allows you to inhibit system reboot while for instance your system backup is running.
Do you want bl-exit not to show any of the buttons when an inhibitor has been taken?

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#20 2016-04-05 16:56:47

Horizon_Brave
Operating System: Linux-Nettrix
Registered: 2015-10-18
Posts: 1,473

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

xaos52 wrote:

Which means the program needs to test each option before it shows the gui. It is possible of course, but it means checking if a feature will work before you know which feature the user intends to use. Testing all buttons functionality while only one button can be clicked. And this testing has be done every time the bl-exit screen is shown.

But what about running BL in a VM? If I put my Host PC to Sleep or perhaps hibernate, (or just closing the laptop lid)  how will that effect the "test" to check for the functionality of the buttons?


"I have not failed, I have found 10,000 ways that will not work" -Edison

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#21 2016-04-05 17:07:23

Unia
Octo-portal-pussy
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 355
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Horizon_Brave wrote:

But what about running BL in a VM? If I put my Host PC to Sleep or perhaps hibernate, (or just closing the laptop lid)  how will that effect the "test" to check for the functionality of the buttons?

No, it will not.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

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#22 2016-04-06 03:25:34

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,590
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

xaos52 wrote:

That said, I agree about not showing users non-functional options. (if they prove to be non-functional)

Which means the program needs to test each option before it shows the gui. It is possible of course...

I assumed that since you were offering that option in the OP:

When the swap space is not sufficient to hibernate, choose one of the options below:

       1. I don't want to see the hibernate button.

that such testing was indeed possible. (You also mentioned various tests in the preceeding GitHub conversation.)

but it means checking if a feature will work before you know which feature the user intends to use. Testing all buttons functionality while only one button can be clicked. And this testing has be done every time the bl-exit screen is shown.

Sure. But how many milliseconds will that actually take in practice? And how often is the bl-exit screen brought up?

There is also the inhibitor locks to take into account.
Which allows you to inhibit system reboot while for instance your system backup is running.
Do you want bl-exit not to show any of the buttons when an inhibitor has been taken?

in that particular case a popup warning might be more appropriate.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#23 2016-04-07 19:09:25

xaos52
The Good Doctor
From: Planet of the @pes
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 695

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

First of all a big THANK YOU to all who have taken the time to respond to
this questionnaire.

I am thinking of creating a bl-exit.ini config file for the bl-exit script, so that
most of the suggested options can be accommodated for.

The bl-exit script should work with default options in the absence of a config file.

It will be possible to specify specific behaviour per button.
In the absence of a specific button behaviour, the script will fall back
to a defined 'default' behaviour.

[default]      - default behaviour when no [logout, suspend, ...] section is present
show = <never|always|ifavailable> 
onError = <visual|stderr>
          visual: show Pop-up window explaining where things want wrong
          stderr: just write a message to stderr. No visual feedback.

[hibernate]    - behaviour for a specific button
show = <never|always|ifavailable> 
where never    : never show button, never test if the action is available
      always   : always show button - don't test if the action is available or not
      ifavailable: test CanHibernate before showing the button 
                   if CanHibernate = "yes" 
                   then 
                       show the clickable button
                   else 
                       show greyed out button

Working  with a  config file makes it possible to create the configuration file
using questions and answers while running the 'bl-welcome' script.

I plan to start coding this in a couple of says.

Should you find something missing in this schema, please let me know.

THANK YOU AGAIN.

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#24 2016-04-07 22:56:23

Eraph
Member
From: /au/qld/bne
Registered: 2016-02-29
Posts: 282
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Nice one, thanks for taking the time to do this!


Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 | BunsenLabs Hydrogen (x64)
Intel Core i7-3537U | Intel HD4000 | 8GB DDR3 | 256GB SSD

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#25 2016-04-08 00:36:10

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,074
Website

Re: [OBSOLETE] The bunsenlabs 'exit' menu entry

Awesome. Rock me, Dr. Xaos.

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