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#1 2015-12-24 10:41:05

brontosaurusrex
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(changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

So I would like that /home partition is visible (read/write) to windows side as well,
a. can I go with ext4 and ext2fsd on win side? Some better approach?
b. perhaps separated DATA ntfs partition?

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-12-25 20:51:02)

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#2 2015-12-24 14:50:21

eight.bit.al
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

Your probably better off getting Linux to read/write a NTFS partition then getting Windows to read/write a Linux supported partition. At least that's been my experience. Option b gets my vote as Windows wants to own your hard drive/computer and does not play well with others. For example, if I write to a thumb drive formatted NTFS or FAT32 with a Linux machine, Windows complains the drive is corrupted and needs to be scanned. It never finds errors, just bitchy because another OS wrote to it.

8bit


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#3 2015-12-24 15:20:13

PackRat
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

^ this

I've dual-booted windows and linux for years, having a separate data partion/drive formatted ntfs has never failed me.

Curious to see how dual booting Windows 10 goes for you; haven't gone that route yet.

Are you using some guide to set up dual booting with Windows 10? I'd like to see it if you can link to it. One thing I have to research is updating Windows 10 in a dual boot environment. MS has done something recently where a bunch of the Windows 7 updates will not apply unless the Windows is booted from it's own boot loader. I'm sure that will apply to Win 10 as well.

Last edited by PackRat (2015-12-24 15:36:07)


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#4 2015-12-24 21:02:33

brontosaurusrex
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

PackRat wrote:

Are you using some guide to set up dual booting with Windows 10? I'd like to see it if you can link to it. One thing I have to research is updating Windows 10 in a dual boot environment. MS has done something recently where a bunch of the Windows 7 updates will not apply unless the Windows is booted from it's own boot loader. I'm sure that will apply to Win 10 as well.

No guides, so I'am entering a world of pain?

The naive idea is:
0. backup data that is currently on the machine
a. install/upgrade win
b. use something to downsize its disk and make ntfs data partition (which will not be used as linux home, but just for transitional stuff)
c. install Debian on empty space (another two ext4 partitions + swap)
d. happy days

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-12-24 21:09:49)

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#5 2015-12-24 21:12:59

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

brontosaurusrex wrote:

c. install Debian on empty space (another two ext4 partitions + swap)

I'm pretty sure that Windows 10 will install a UEFI system to a GPT disk so you will need to use the Debian netinstall ISO image as the live versions don't yet support UEFI.


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#6 2015-12-24 21:13:53

PackRat
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

I am not sure how painful dual booting with Windows 10 will be - I have seen a lot of other posts/blogs where it is not working; but for all I know a lot of it is FUD. Most of it has to do with the Windows 10 bootloader and Windows Update. Worth researching before you make the attempt.

Your steps a, and b are the norm. You can use the Windows 10 utility to resize the partition - or partition the disk during a clean install.

Before installing Debian, you need to go into Windows 10 power management and disable the Quick Boot - this appears to be essential.

Then install Debian and hopefully profit.

Again, I have only started researching this; definitely appears to be a whole lot trickier than dual booting Win7 and Linux.

Last edited by PackRat (2015-12-24 21:16:18)


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#7 2015-12-24 21:17:07

brontosaurusrex
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

HoaS: and GPT is only available if machine is UEFI capable? (I haven't actually checked that yet).

PackRat

Before installing Debian, you need to go into Windows 10 power management and disable the Quick Boot - this appears to be essential.

I see.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-12-24 21:19:50)

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#8 2015-12-24 21:23:55

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

brontosaurusrex wrote:

HoaS: and GPT is only available if machine is UEFI capable? (I haven't actually checked that yet).

Apparently Windows can boot in UEFI mode on a traditional MBR-style disk but this is firmware-dependent and may not work at all.

If you let Windows have the whole disk I think it will default to a UEFI installation and a GPT disk if you have a UEFI-capable motherboard.

I think you can "force" Windows to install in non-UEFI mode by presenting it with a pre-partitioned (MBR) disk but I don't know for sure.

Of course, disabling UEFI and forcing "CSM" or "Legacy" mode in your firmware (BIOS) options will give Windows no choice but to install a non-UEFI system.


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#9 2015-12-24 21:26:09

brontosaurusrex
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

I'll do some experiments and report back.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-12-24 21:26:20)

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#10 2015-12-24 22:28:53

dhalgren
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

My experience:
I am running a UEFI machine, Windows 8 originally. Installed debian via net install.

Yes, quick boot needs to be disabled (quick boot puts the OS into hibernation, as I understand it, and causes maximum difficulty if not turned off). Windows is very slow to boot with quick boot off, but this seems to be theonly way to run a dual machine.

What happens after debian install in my experience is that Windows then boots from it's own boot loader when selected from grub, so no issues there.

Anyway, I decided to upgrade to Windows 10, which entailed upgrading to windows 8.1 first. For reasons beyond my comprehension, the 8.1 upgrade only half worked. But, once I had performed an online windows disc image repair, the upgrade to windows 10 was quite smooth. (Windows support pages and forums were surprisingly helpful in dealing with upgrade problems and errors, so go through their information about  the upgrade first.)

I had expected windows to windows to make itself default again, but was pleasantly surprised when grub appeared and everything was as before except that windows 10 was there.

I have read many reports which suggest incredible difficulty with dual booting windows 10 especially when upgrading from 8.1, but these difficulties did not appear. With quick boot turned off, windows played quite (and unexpectedly) nicely with grub-uefi and my debian/b-l installation. I didn't even have to make grub my default bootloader again.

I hope my experience is of some optimism for you. But, I should note that what seems to be at issue for many is the implementation of uefi on your particular computer: different brands and different models of the same brand implement it differently, and this seems to be what causes many people to experience problems. On my particular ASUS, I have full access and control over the uefi partition and setup. A friend has a HP, and has virtually no access to or control over the uefi partition (if he wanted to do anything, he has to install third party software.)

Anyway... back up and run with it, as long as you have your files backed up and can reinstall whatever may be lost, it's just a bit of time.

Also, in order to resize the windows partition, I always have found doing it in windows with their own tools before doing anything else seems to work best. (Nothing against gparted, but sometimes windows does strange things at the end of the partition... in my experience at least.)

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#11 2015-12-24 22:44:24

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

dhalgren wrote:

A friend has a HP, and has virtually no access to or control over the uefi partition (if he wanted to do anything, he has to install third party software.)

Under GNU/Linux the EFI variables and NVRAM entries can be manipulated via /sys/firmware/efi either directly or through efibootmgr(8)

Of course some firmware implementations are still completely unworkable even with this interface.
roll


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#12 2015-12-25 05:01:14

tknomanzr
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

The best approach is to run Windows 10 on a separate drive, if at all possible. That pretty much guarantees it can't interfere with Grub2. Also, if for some reason you have to run Linux in Legacy Boot mode, you can keep windows on UEFI. You will pretty much have to go with NTFS to share files between Windows and Linux. There is a Windows utility out there called ext2fs. Please note that IT WILL CAUSE DATA LOSS on large files. Also note that NTFS will not preserve ACL's if that is important.

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#13 2015-12-25 08:12:28

brontosaurusrex
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

Asked myself if i really wanna go through this and said no, so no win on this one either, I'll mark this as solved "changed my mind" tongue

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-12-25 21:05:43)

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#14 2015-12-25 20:52:10

PackRat
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

tknomanzr wrote:

The best approach is to run Windows 10 on a separate drive, if at all possible. That pretty much guarantees it can't interfere with Grub2.

Good, that's how I do it; So, if a UEFI aware distro is installed, Grub2 can be installed on the second hard drive as well? That was something I was looking into.

Edit - sorry b-rex, no more thread hijacks, I promise.  monkey

Last edited by PackRat (2015-12-25 20:53:17)


You must unlearn what you have learned.
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#15 2015-12-25 21:03:26

brontosaurusrex
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

Why sorry? This one really runs Debian as it should, fast as hell.

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#16 2015-12-25 21:59:16

tknomanzr
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From: Around the Bend
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

PackRat wrote:
tknomanzr wrote:

The best approach is to run Windows 10 on a separate drive, if at all possible. That pretty much guarantees it can't interfere with Grub2.

Good, that's how I do it; So, if a UEFI aware distro is installed, Grub2 can be installed on the second hard drive as well? That was something I was looking into.

Edit - sorry b-rex, no more thread hijacks, I promise.  monkey

Yes and coincidentally, if your bios supports mixed mode booting (both legacy and UEFI) grub2 will be able to boot both. The exception is where the bios is either / or.

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#17 2015-12-26 07:38:39

Snap
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

if your bios supports mixed mode booting (both legacy and UEFI) grub2 will be able to boot both.

Yes, I can confirm that.

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#18 2016-01-10 00:21:27

KrunchTime
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

brontosaurusrex wrote:

Asked myself if i really wanna go through this and said no, so no win on this one either, I'll mark this as solved "changed my mind" tongue

Why not run Windows 10 under a VM?  I've had good results running Windows 8 under VMware Player so far.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2016-01-10 00:22:07)

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#19 2016-01-26 13:48:14

snarkyguy
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Registered: 2016-01-26
Posts: 4

Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

KrunchTime wrote:
brontosaurusrex wrote:

Asked myself if i really wanna go through this and said no, so no win on this one either, I'll mark this as solved "changed my mind" tongue

Why not run Windows 10 under a VM?  I've had good results running Windows 8 under VMware Player so far.

If you're gaming on Windows, a VM may not be your best choice. I dual-booted and have Windows solely for gaming.

I recommend installing Windows first, then installing Linux. Personally I don't bother trying to share partitions across them; I use a USB drive that can be plugged in and works in either, and can therefore transfer data from one to the other.

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#20 2016-01-26 15:11:30

Sector11
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Re: (changed my mind) Dual boot windows 10 and Linux, /home partition?

brontosaurusrex wrote:

The naive idea is:
c. install Debian on empty space (another two ext4 partitions + swap)

Yea, one for / the other for /home.  That way, IF (never happens, right) you break Linux; you reinstall - reformatting / and 'keeping but re-using' the /home partition.  All your ".config" files are preserved.  ie reinstall iceweasel and all your bookmarks/preferences are still there  wink


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Being positive doesn't understand physics.
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