Trixie Freeze/Carbon Release

micko01 · 2025-02-04 10:08:13

There exists an alternative source tree fork of yad on github developed by a guy that also commited some useful stuff to gtkdialog, a FatDog developer, 'step-'. FatDog was forked off puppylinux about 10 yeas ago and uses openbox/lx panel.

It has wayland support too, and builds fine for me (with a quick meson compile) from the point that wayland support was added and the programs last release, albeit wayland support wasn't in that release.

I could fork it and create our own 'release'.

I could then debianize it and see how we go and put it out there for testing on my repo. Won't be until this WE though when I have time to patch stuff if needed.

https://github.com/step-/yad

unklar · 2025-02-04 11:10:13

I would like to install Carbon on unstable (siduction - nox). Are the BL packages currently available for download somewhere for both x11 and wayland?

greenjeans · 2025-02-04 20:45:05

micko01 wrote:

There exists an alternative source tree fork of yad on github developed by a guy that also commited some useful stuff to gtkdialog, a FatDog developer, 'step-'. FatDog was forked off puppylinux about 10 yeas ago and uses openbox/lx panel.
It has wayland support too, and builds fine for me (with a quick meson compile) from the point that wayland support was added and the programs last release, albeit wayland support wasn't in that release.
I could fork it and create our own 'release'.
I could then debianize it and see how we go and put it out there for testing on my repo. Won't be until this WE though when I have time to patch stuff if needed.
https://github.com/step-/yad

I would totally buy you a beer if you did that. I looked at all the yad stuff not long ago and read the links where Debian pitched version 7 out, but it's now on version 14 and possibly their concerns about 7 have long since been dealt with?

ETA: the above was referencing the gtk3 version, just went and checked the link posted, different deal but very cool idea.

I'd be happy to test, I have a build of testing I can test on in addition to current stable, albeit in another distro.

Last edited by greenjeans (2025-02-04 20:53:21)

johnraff · 2025-02-05 02:52:52

The yad situation is a real mess.

micko01 wrote:

There exists an alternative source tree fork of yad on github

forked yad wrote:

This repository was forked from the 0.42.0 release

theofficialgman wrote:

I took some time to triage... basically yad has been broken in many ways ever since 0.41.0 (that includes 1.0, 2.0, 12.1, etc), 0.40.0 is the LAST version to work without any major problems.

So until we figure out if any/all of the issues brought up by @theofficialgman on issue#240 have been resolved, whether in 7.2.1 or 14.1 or in step-'s fork, I think our best option is to stay with 0.40.0. We at least know that whatever issues it may have are not a problem for our own scripts.

greenjeans wrote:

I looked at all the yad stuff not long ago and read the links where Debian pitched version 7 out, but it's now on version 14 and possibly their concerns about 7 have long since been dealt with?

Yad 7.2-0.1 was uploaded to Experimental by Bastian Germann in May 2023. I think at that time Github had already moved on to 12 or so.

new yad maintainer @alexispm wrote:

I use yad version 7.2 because it is the most recent version that does not suffer bug(s)https://github.com/v1cont/yad/issues/107 https://github.com/v1cont/yad/issues/140 which make the package useless.

Since then the "multiple regression" issue was posted on Github, and Bastian posted a warning about 7.2.

Bastian German wrote:

Please make sure that the update to 7.2 does not result in a regression, as claimed by the issue.

So it seems to be stuck there and 7.2 never made it to Unstable or Testing.

Meanwhile 0.40.0 hit those two Failed To Build From Source (FTBFS) bugs linked previously so was dropped from Testing in September - there was no yad at all for Trixie.

The good news here is that both those bugs seem to have been fixed in 0.40.0-1.1 which has just entered Unstable, so we should have at least a usable version of yad in Trixie in a few days.

Yad 7.2-1 in Experimental is also said to build OK, so whether we get it in Trixie or not is down to whether the maintainer decides the issues mentioned in Github issue#240 have been dealt with (or can be patched) or not. Personally I don't care that much, as long as we have some yad which works for our scripts, and 0.40.0-1.1 ought to.

Developers can take their time sorting out the rest, and maybe some day we'll move on to 14.1 or beyond.

Personally, I don't think issue#240 is as helpful as it could be because it talks about "multiple regressions" but doesn't link to any individual issues for each of them - if such issues have even been raised. How are users and packagers expected to know when the blanket warning about versions higher than 0.40.0 has been lifted?

The situation isn't helped by the fact that the yad developer lives in Kiev. He may have higher priorities in his life right now.

Anyway, my vote is to go on using yad 0.40.0 for Carbon, and move on to some of our other tasks.

Last edited by johnraff (2025-02-05 02:58:38)

johnraff · 2025-02-05 04:11:47

unklar wrote:

I would like to install Carbon on unstable (siduction - nox). Are the BL packages currently available for download somewhere for both x11 and wayland?

The BL Carbon repository has been up for a while now and you should be able to enable it in your apt sources the usual way:

deb https://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian carbon main
#deb-src https://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian carbon main

Right now, there may be a couple of packages you need in micko01's experimental repo, so it's probably best to enable that too: https://github.com/01micko/01micko.gith … structions
By release time, all necessary packages will be available from the official BL repos (+ Debian of course).

An upcoming release of bunsen-configs will recommend the necessary icon theme and GTK theme packages and set them in user configs, but till then it will look like Boron.

Wayland is lower priority than X11 right now but future packages bunsen-meta-base-wayland and bunsen-configs-wayland will enable a plug-in Wayland session on top of the regular X11 Carbon.

Most current BL packages will work equally well on X11 and Wayland, but there are some which will not.
Those will be dealt with either by making them adaptable to either or hiding them in the Wayland menu.

If you find any bugs please start new topics in the Bug Reports section.
Thanks!

unklar · 2025-02-05 09:05:56

Thank you very much, @john.

micko01 · 2025-02-05 10:12:10

johnraff wrote:

The yad situation is a real mess.

Indeed.

johnraff wrote:

micko01 wrote:
There exists an alternative source tree fork of yad on github
forked yad wrote:
This repository was forked from the 0.42.0 release
theofficialgman wrote:
I took some time to triage... basically yad has been broken in many ways ever since 0.41.0 (that includes 1.0, 2.0, 12.1, etc), 0.40.0 is the LAST version to work without any major problems.

johnraff wrote:

The good news here is that both those bugs seem to have been fixed in 0.40.0-1.1 which has just entered Unstable, so we should have at least a usable version of yad in Trixie in a few days.

I noticed that and NMU update of yad landed in unstable when I did an update late last night. Fingers crossed!

unklar · 2025-02-06 14:16:26

Sorry, I have to nerf again...

The sources and keys are set up on the system,
which meta-packages have to be installed to have carbon in wayland and x11?

Thanks!

johnraff · 2025-02-07 04:04:22

The Wayland session isn't yet ready, as I posted above.
For an X11 BL Carbon setup you can install your choice of bunsen-meta-base, bunsen-meta-lite or bunsen-meta-all.

And we'll be most grateful to hear about the bugs that you find.

hhh · 2025-02-08 03:47:38

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

johnraff wrote:
not sure about Wireplumber
That's the only session manager left, pipewire-media-session was pretty broken and is now dropped.
EDIT: and I think you will need pipewire-pulse and probably pipewire-alsa as well. Not sure how the PipeWire dependencies will work with Recommends disabled.

I'll have to check when I install Trixie after the first freeze, but I think installing wireplumber will take care of most of that...

https://packages.debian.org/trixie/wireplumber

Add pipewire-pulse, pipewire-alsa and the bluetooth libs to the package list since they're recommends...

https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire#Debian_12

The trixie packages are basically the same at this point, except for the dropping of pipewire-media-session, as Head noted...

https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire#Debian … 2FUnstable

hhh · 2025-02-08 03:50:24

johnraff wrote:

hhh wrote:
Compile a ToDo list of Carbon loose ends. I've got some theming to do, that's one thing. BLOB could use some love...
ToDo list is a good idea. We can always link out to subthreads if any of the points get too big.
Thread for BLOB? What issues do you have in mind?

Well, new Carbon theme/wallpaper/panel/conky configs added. But the Blob GUI is yad, isn't it? So there's that.

johnraff · 2025-02-08 04:57:08

Fingers crossed yad 0.40.0 will be back in Trixie in a day or two: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/yad

Yes, at least the default Carbon desktop will need adding to the BLOB presets.

And if we switch tint2 for xfce4-panel that will mean some new code blocks for backing up & restoring the xfce4-panel settings. Shouldn't be hard though.

Another complication will be that all the older Blob presets use tint2. Either rewrite them to use xfce4-panel instead, or trigger a prompt to install tint2 as we do with icon themes etc. Provided tint2 is available to install in Trixie.

So yes, some work will be needed on Blob.

EDIT ...and Blob won't be usable on Wayland without some significant rewriting to work round all the x-utilities it uses like xdotool. (Some of it's just eye-candy though.) But we can think about that later maybe?

Last edited by johnraff (2025-02-08 05:10:48)

johnraff · 2025-02-08 05:04:16

I think pipewire is all under control folks.

We decided some time ago to add pipewire-audio to the carbon package list.
It's a metapackage that pulls in pipewire-pulse, pipewire-alsa, wireplumber and libspa-0.2-bluetooth as Dependencies not Recommends so we've got everything.

(Pipewire is a different package with different dependencies, but it gets pulled in by pipewire-audio as a sub-dependency.)

johnraff · 2025-02-08 05:08:09

Picom's back in Trixie BTW.

hhh · 2025-02-09 02:35:17

^, ^^ Great!

Put Blob on the back-burner for now, IMO, it's going to be a quick four months from the transition freeze to trixie's release. Unless we give up on putting out a timely release this cycle.

johnraff · 2025-02-09 05:47:44

hhh wrote:

Unless we give up on putting out a timely release this cycle.

Let's not give up!

Unless you want to change something, I think our wallpaper/icons/gtk theme are all in good shape now.
(...er...cough cough... https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 02#p139102 )

Under the hood, I don't see too much that needs attention.

A few package substitutions: xfce4-panel for tint2 (the biggest disruption), Micko's xwwall for nitrogen, lxpolkit mate-polkit or lxqt-policykit for policykit-1-gnome, maybe a couple more, but nothing too difficult.

Sort out the new apt sources format, and especially the explicit signing key declarations.
It will be interesting to see if live-build handles this - we might need to add a hack hook to avoid being deprecated by apt.

So as long as we keep picking away at the issues we've got a good chance of getting there on time IMO.

Last edited by johnraff (2025-02-09 07:16:41)

DeepDayze · 2025-02-09 21:36:38

So not long before an alpha or beta ISO comes out then. Carbon should be an interesting release no doubt!

So why not keep Picom in place for now then if it's back in Trixie (at least for now that is)?

Last edited by DeepDayze (2025-02-09 21:37:45)

johnraff · 2025-02-10 01:39:18

^Picom's back already, at version 12.5-1 in Trixie.

I was getting a bit of instability so switched it off while I worked on an unrelated issue, but maybe there's a tweak we need to make in picom.conf.

Has anyone found any issues with picom 12.5-1?

hhh · 2025-02-11 05:15:54

johnraff wrote:

Unless you want to change something, I think our wallpaper/icons/gtk theme are all in good shape now.
(...er...cough cough... https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 02#p139102 )

Yes, just want to wait till the transition freeze on March 15th to do a hard drive install. Literally an hour to switch colors from dark to light, and it'll also show flaws in the current upgrade path (where's that upgrade tutorial? I can't find it.)

johnraff · 2025-02-13 02:25:42

hhh wrote:

johnraff wrote:
Unless you want to change something, I think our wallpaper/icons/gtk theme are all in good shape now.
(...er...cough cough... https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 02#p139102 )
Yes, just want to wait till the transition freeze on March 15th to do a hard drive install. Literally an hour to switch colors from dark to light, and it'll also show flaws in the current upgrade path (where's that upgrade tutorial? I can't find it.)

March 15th is a month away. Not having the gtk theme package on the Carbon repo is blocking the upgrade to bunsen-configs that I've been wanting to push since last October. Can I just release bunsen-yaru-gtk as it is now, and push an upgrade when the light openbox themes are ready later?

Getting the upgrade path smoothed out is to some extent hanging on having bunsen-configs using the Carbon theming. As more and more people seem to be eager to try out Carbon, I think it's important that they see a desktop that at least doesn't look identical with Boron.

#21 2025-02-04 10:08:13

Re: Trixie Freeze/Carbon Release

#22 2025-02-04 11:10:13

Re: Trixie Freeze/Carbon Release

#23 2025-02-04 20:45:05

Re: Trixie Freeze/Carbon Release

#24 2025-02-05 02:52:52

Re: Trixie Freeze/Carbon Release

#25 2025-02-05 04:11:47

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#26 2025-02-05 09:05:56

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#27 2025-02-05 10:12:10

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#28 2025-02-06 14:16:26

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#29 2025-02-07 04:04:22

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#30 2025-02-08 03:47:38

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#32 2025-02-08 04:57:08

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#33 2025-02-08 05:04:16

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#36 2025-02-09 05:47:44

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#37 2025-02-09 21:36:38

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#38 2025-02-10 01:39:18

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#39 2025-02-11 05:15:54

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#40 2025-02-13 02:25:42

Re: Trixie Freeze/Carbon Release

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