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#61 2024-07-26 22:32:41

altman
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2015-10-24
Posts: 619

Re: carbon-wayland

Hey @cog, glad to see you around .


My Linux installs are as in my music; it s on Metal

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#62 2024-07-27 02:08:20

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 12,553
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

cog wrote:

I know @hhh likes hyprland too.  Just a FYI in case yall haven't seen it yet.
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?log … gistorm.in
https://salsa.debian.org/NyxTrail/hyprland

Right now BL Carbon/Wayland is being built round the stacking labwc, but a lot of people like tiling too. We should make it as easy as possible for users to switch.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), now on Bluesky, there's also some GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Boron Desktop

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#63 2024-07-27 03:15:43

hhh
Gaucho
From: High in the Custerdome
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 16,032
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

cog wrote:

I've been packaging hyprland and it's sleu of deps on my little project but I'm about to stop maintaining those packages, as debian proper is about to get it.  I know @hhh likes hyprland too.  Just a FYI in case yall haven't seen it yet.

https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?log … gistorm.in
https://salsa.debian.org/NyxTrail/hyprland

Cool... I like hyprland a lot, but I've been on my minimal Wayland GNOME desktop much more recently, it has more features and is unified. To be fair, I haven't really had any instability issues with hyprland, just weirdness like opening thunar on a workspace that isn't "one", using the "Open as root" context menu and having the lxpolkit prompt open on workspace one. Or opening a menu on an app running in Xwayland and the menu not grabbing focus. Annoying.


No, he can't sleep on the floor. What do you think I'm yelling for?!!!

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#64 2024-07-28 01:49:18

cog
Member
From: The Southwest
Registered: 2015-10-27
Posts: 655
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

@altman good to see your still around too bud.

@johnraff cool.  I figured yall are going to use labwc since it’s basically an openbox clone wayland comp.  Just posted since I knew Unklar and Hhh liked it.


@hhh yeah it’s pretty cool.  I just used the Debian unstable package (it hit the repos today) and it worked good.  I looked it up on repology too and aparently it’s in the Ubuntu 24.10 proposed updates which may be of some interest to you.

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#65 2024-07-28 02:02:03

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 12,553
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

In other news, labwc's 0.7.4 release, which came out last week, is in Trixie already!
Debian aren't always slow. cool


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), now on Bluesky, there's also some GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Boron Desktop

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#66 2024-07-29 16:52:32

hhh
Gaucho
From: High in the Custerdome
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 16,032
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

cog wrote:

@hhh yeah it’s pretty cool.  I just used the Debian unstable package (it hit the repos today) and it worked good.

Hey, cool!


No, he can't sleep on the floor. What do you think I'm yelling for?!!!

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#67 2024-07-30 05:01:55

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 12,553
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

johnraff wrote:

@hhh's guide:

hhh wrote:

Here's how I setup labwc today on an 8 year old laptop.

Finally got round to running through this process on a VM, originally Bookworm CLI, basically the same as what D-I would install.
https://imgur.com/Pz6Fwrhm.png
...

Anyway, generally, yes it works. cool

One thing I've just noticed is that even at the TTY before starting labwc, my LOCALE and keyboard layout are both correctly set up. cool

That's not the case in my other Trixie Wayland VMs, though I'd very much like it to be.
The Debian Installer asks users to set their language and keyboard layout right at the start, and I don't think they should be asked to set them again, except to change to something else.

This will take some searching out...


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), now on Bluesky, there's also some GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Boron Desktop

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#68 2024-08-13 15:08:39

hhh
Gaucho
From: High in the Custerdome
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 16,032
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

@micko01, I was wondering about the details of your scrot here...

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 49#p136949

What's the menu? What's the panel? What are the panel applets (arrows, lock icon, temp readout)? This looks great.


No, he can't sleep on the floor. What do you think I'm yelling for?!!!

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#69 2024-08-14 03:40:41

micko01
void main()
From: Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2024-04-07
Posts: 492
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

hhh wrote:

@micko01, I was wondering about the details of your scrot here...

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 49#p136949

What's the menu? What's the panel? What are the panel applets (arrows, lock icon, temp readout)? This looks great.

menu = wofi - gtk3 based launcher - people will miss jgmenu so this is a poor man's alternative. I have it configured to open with desktop left click. Labwc native menu, which supports pipemenus, opens on right click. Both close on left click, wofi toggles on left click, native menu closes on left or right. I'm experimenting with UX. I don't want the wayland port to be some half baked solution
panel = sfwbar
arrows = temporary desktop switcher until workspaces are merged in labwc and sfwbar
lock icon = idle inhibit, for now have to manually stop screen blanking when watching videos etc
temp readout = a CPU temp widget I wrote for sfwbar a loooong time ago which actually inspired @LBCrion to merge dynamically updating SVG images into sfwbar. The temp widget gets a hotter color as temperature increases. Battery widget does something similar.. changes color as charge decreases. On desktop ATM.

EDIT to add - SVG is great! You can easily change things on the fly even with a simple sed routine. I actually wrote a battery status icon in C (for puppylinux - gtk2 or 3) that uses exactly the same principle as the above mentioned widgets. I could probably adapt it for Bunsen (X flavour obviously) if anyone were interested. Here -> powerapplet_tray.c. The original author, Barry Kauler had XPM's stuffed into the code but I simply changed that to print the SVG icons. A much more aesthetically pleasing approach that scales much better.

Last edited by micko01 (2024-08-14 03:57:34)


#!/bin/sh
echo '#include <stdio.h>\nvoid main() { printf("Hi, bunsenlabs\\n"); return; }' > bunsen.c
gcc bunsen.c -o bunsen
./bunsen

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#70 2024-08-14 05:06:56

hhh
Gaucho
From: High in the Custerdome
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 16,032
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

^ Thanks!


No, he can't sleep on the floor. What do you think I'm yelling for?!!!

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#71 2024-08-15 19:14:34

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,897

Re: carbon-wayland

Looks very nice and I might be able to do a little testing with this as a user.  I could spin this up in a VBox VM and try out some things.

Wayland is the future and BL taking baby steps towards it is the way. So perhaps the next release after Carbon (Nitrogen) be fully Wayland based?


Real Men Use Linux

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#72 2024-08-16 14:00:23

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 2,645

Re: carbon-wayland

DeepDayze wrote:

Looks very nice and I might be able to do a little testing with this as a user.  I could spin this up in a VBox VM and try out some things.

Wayland is the future and BL taking baby steps towards it is the way. So perhaps the next release after Carbon (Nitrogen) be fully Wayland based?

As far as I understand @johnraff, carbon will continue to be based on x11.

He wants to offer Wayland as an additional gift for interested users. Quasi, as a 'switch' at startup.

The differences between x11 and wayland are huge. That's why I have my doubts...  smile

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#73 2024-08-16 14:43:35

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,897

Re: carbon-wayland

unklar wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

Looks very nice and I might be able to do a little testing with this as a user.  I could spin this up in a VBox VM and try out some things.

Wayland is the future and BL taking baby steps towards it is the way. So perhaps the next release after Carbon (Nitrogen) be fully Wayland based?

As far as I understand @johnraff, carbon will continue to be based on x11.

He wants to offer Wayland as an additional gift for interested users. Quasi, as a 'switch' at startup.

The differences between x11 and wayland are huge. That's why I have my doubts...  smile

This would certainly be a nice thing for Carbon as a means of "kicking the tires" for trying out Wayland and perhaps then have Wayland as default for Nitrogen once the bugs been fixed and the infrastructure in place for that.


Real Men Use Linux

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#74 2024-08-16 17:01:36

hhh
Gaucho
From: High in the Custerdome
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 16,032
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

unklar wrote:

The differences between x11 and wayland are huge. That's why I have my doubts...  smile

Yes, my Intel integrated graphics chip (Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP GT2 [UHD Graphics G4] (rev 01) runs incomparably better under Wayland.


No, he can't sleep on the floor. What do you think I'm yelling for?!!!

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#75 2024-08-16 17:33:17

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,897

Re: carbon-wayland

hhh wrote:
unklar wrote:

The differences between x11 and wayland are huge. That's why I have my doubts...  smile

Yes, my Intel integrated graphics chip (Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP GT2 [UHD Graphics G4] (rev 01) runs incomparably better under Wayland.

Intel and AMD so far have the best support under Wayland and nvidia not quite so good but heard that's changing for the better. If Wayland is better performant than X11 then it should be a good thing to switch when everything is fully in place for it.


Real Men Use Linux

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#76 2024-08-16 17:54:59

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 2,645

Re: carbon-wayland

DeepDayze wrote:
hhh wrote:
unklar wrote:

The differences between x11 and wayland are huge. That's why I have my doubts...  smile

Yes, my Intel integrated graphics chip (Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP GT2 [UHD Graphics G4] (rev 01) runs incomparably better under Wayland.

Intel and AMD so far have the best support under Wayland and nvidia not quite so good but heard that's changing for the better. If Wayland is better performant than X11 then it should be a good thing to switch when everything is fully in place for it.

The problem is that many applications don't run on Wayland, have to be rewritten, reinvented, because Wayland is a completely different concept, than x11. wink

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#77 2024-08-16 18:35:41

hhh
Gaucho
From: High in the Custerdome
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 16,032
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

As a Linux user (and not a gamer) I've been a fan of Intel. But this Tiger Lake processor absolutely sucks under Xorg, and the way Intel has handled the later processors (Raptor Lake?) is lame as can be...

https://www.theverge.com/24216305/intel … therboards

If I were a gamer on Linux, I'd go AMD.

unklar wrote:

The problem is that many applications don't run on Wayland, have to be rewritten, reinvented, because Wayland is a completely different concept, than x11. wink

Not a problem. Programmers who are programming for Linux are doing it for Wayland. Xorg has been pretty dead development-wise for something like four years now...

https://www.phoronix.com/news/XServer-Abandonware

Just look at the desktops/window managers. GNOME and KDE both default to Wayland. Sway, labwc (openbox Wayland), Hyprland. Budgie and the upcoming Cosmo.

Last edited by hhh (2024-08-16 18:50:45)


No, he can't sleep on the floor. What do you think I'm yelling for?!!!

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#78 2024-08-16 18:59:48

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,897

Re: carbon-wayland

So basically X11 is only getting critical security updates  and no new features. Wayland is the newer and improved X11 and is the future!


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#79 2024-08-17 02:57:23

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 12,553
Website

Re: carbon-wayland

unklar wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

Wayland is the future and BL taking baby steps towards it is the way. So perhaps the next release after Carbon (Nitrogen) be fully Wayland based?

As far as I understand @johnraff, carbon will continue to be based on x11.
He wants to offer Wayland as an additional gift for interested users. Quasi, as a 'switch' at startup.

Each developer has their own take on the situation, partly depending on their own personal hardware experiences, but I think we can all agree that for Debian Trixie it will be very difficult to offer a Wayland-based Bunsenlabs with all the features that users now enjoy. For some, that's a tradeoff that's worth making, for others, not so much.

Right now I'm thinking we should make BL Carbon X11-based by default, but offer an addon package that will enable an optional Wayland session for those who want it. I think that should be doable if other devs are onboard.

But Trixie release is probably still a year off, and things might change before then.

As for Nitrogen - yes we might possibly switch to Wayland by default with X11 as an option, but it's way too early to predict IMO.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), now on Bluesky, there's also some GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Boron Desktop

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#80 2024-08-17 03:12:05

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,897

Re: carbon-wayland

johnraff wrote:
unklar wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

Wayland is the future and BL taking baby steps towards it is the way. So perhaps the next release after Carbon (Nitrogen) be fully Wayland based?

As far as I understand @johnraff, carbon will continue to be based on x11.
He wants to offer Wayland as an additional gift for interested users. Quasi, as a 'switch' at startup.

Each developer has their own take on the situation, partly depending on their own personal hardware experiences, but I think we can all agree that for Debian Trixie it will be very difficult to offer a Wayland-based Bunsenlabs with all the features that users now enjoy. For some, that's a tradeoff that's worth making, for others, not so much.

Right now I'm thinking we should make BL Carbon X11-based by default, but offer an addon package that will enable an optional Wayland session for those who want it. I think that should be doable if other devs are onboard.

But Trixie release is probably still a year off, and things might change before then.

As for Nitrogen - yes we might possibly switch to Wayland by default with X11 as an option, but it's way too early to predict IMO.

That makes sense considering Debian is also heading towards eventual full Wayland by default in future releases. Having an addon package sounds sensible too for BL at least for Carbon.


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