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I use BL as a host OS for VirtualBox. Any 'productive' work is in the installed VM's (including Windows). A bare version of BL would be perfect for that use case. Another idea would be a VirtualBox tuned version of BL, designed specifically for those of us who would enjoy a pre-tuned host OS for VirtualBox.
Last edited by dmontaine (2024-04-21 18:19:19)
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Another idea would be a VirtualBox tuned version of BL, designed specifically for those of us who would enjoy a pre-tuned host OS for VirtualBox.
Do you mean tuned to be a VB host or guest? What would be required, specifically?
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I was thinking of a VBox host, with VirtualBox pre-installed and very little else installed. I don't know if there is special 'tuning' that would allow VBox to run more efficiently. But certainly removing anything that would compete for resources would be a start. I am not aware of any distro currently available that is specifically designed to host VBox virtual machines. So it might be a interesting, and perhaps popular, niche.
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^This sounds interesting, and probably useful to some people, but a system stripped down to nothing but what is needed to run Virtualbox would no longer be BunsenLabs. This could probably be done from a simple Debian base, installing the X packages and openbox. Maybe even a further stripped-down version of the BL base install here would work for your purposes. Why don't you go over the package list and remove everything that looks unnecessary?
Another complication is that Virtualbox has not been available as a package in Debian stable for some time, because of issues with the Oracle devs' upgrade policy. (There's currently a package in Debian unstable.)
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For me, BunsenLabs as it is makes a good VIrtualBox host. The suggested BunsenLabs Base would be even better. The idea of a VirtualBox tuned version of Debian is interesting, but for me, unnecessary.
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I think the most useful thing BL can do is to strip down the "base" install to the minimum that still allows it to be BunsenLabs. People can then add whatever they need on top.
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Possible other candidates for the 'base' package list might be suckless-tools (for dmenu) and gmrun.
These are both useful small packages with few dependencies, so let's add them. Dropping bunsen-utilities and bunsen-pipemenus, we get this revised package list:
bunsen-archive-keyring
bunsen-common
bunsen-configs-lite # soon to be replaced by bunsen-configs-base
bunsen-exit
bunsen-images-base
bunsen-numix-icon-theme
bunsen-themes
bunsen-thunar
arandr
conky-all
dillo
dmz-cursor-theme
galternatives
gmrun
inxi
jgmenu
lightdm
lightdm-gtk-greeter
lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
light-locker
lxappearance
nitrogen
obconf
openbox
policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome
polkitd-pkla
python3-xdg
rxvt-unicode
scrot
sensible-utils
suckless-tools
thunar
thunar-volman
tint2
xbindkeys
xcape
xauth
xinit
xserver-xorg
x11-xserver-utils
xsettingsd
yad
I'll go ahead and add these to a new meta-bunsen-base metapackage, and also as an alternative in the bunsen-netinstall script. That will be accompanied by a new package bunsen-configs-base, slightly modified from bunsen-configs-lite, so that the menu isn't full of broken items. Maybe bunsen-themes can have a package bunsen-themes-base split off in the same way as with bunsen-images-base, to save install size? Further down the road, integration with bunsen-welcome...
EDIT: Added light-locker and python3-xdg, needed to get screen-locking to work. 'loginctl lock-session <ID>' seems to rely on some locking app like light-locker being installed and running.
Also added arandr because getting the screen size right is pretty basic.
Inxi's another one that ought to be there I think.
Last edited by johnraff (2024-04-26 09:58:07)
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btw it's not impossible that, depending on their hardware, some users might need to install other packages to get a fully working X session, eg xserver-xorg-input-* or xserver-xorg-video-*
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Two that users might consider installing are xfce4-notifyd for notification popups and xfce4-power-manager for screen timeouts and battery state monioring.
Last edited by johnraff (2024-04-26 09:46:54)
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People with wireless network will want network-manager and wpasupplicant. Even without recommends they add some 23MB or else I'd have just put them on the base list.
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There might also be a case for having gparted in a base install - any opinions?
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johnraff wrote:Possible other candidates for the 'base' package list might be suckless-tools (for dmenu) and gmrun.
These are both useful small packages with few dependencies, so let's add them. Dropping bunsen-utilities and bunsen-pipemenus, we get this revised package list:
bunsen-archive-keyring bunsen-common bunsen-configs-lite # soon to be replaced by bunsen-configs-base bunsen-exit bunsen-images-base bunsen-numix-icon-theme bunsen-themes bunsen-thunar arandr conky-all dillo dmz-cursor-theme galternatives gmrun inxi jgmenu lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings light-locker lxappearance nitrogen obconf openbox policykit-1 policykit-1-gnome polkitd-pkla python3-xdg rxvt-unicode scrot sensible-utils suckless-tools thunar thunar-volman tint2 xbindkeys xcape xauth xinit xserver-xorg x11-xserver-utils xsettingsd yad
I'll go ahead and add these to a new meta-bunsen-base metapackage, and also as an alternative in the bunsen-netinstall script. That will be accompanied by a new package bunsen-configs-base, slightly modified from bunsen-configs-lite, so that the menu isn't full of broken items. Maybe bunsen-themes can have a package bunsen-themes-base split off in the same way as with bunsen-images-base, to save install size? Further down the road, integration with bunsen-welcome...
EDIT: Added light-locker and python3-xdg, needed to get screen-locking to work. 'loginctl lock-session <ID>' seems to rely on some locking app like light-locker being installed and running.
Also added arandr because getting the screen size right is pretty basic.
Inxi's another one that ought to be there I think.
It would be great to have it as an available ISO option as well as the Main version(so to speak).
Edit: as well as with those added packages stated above : xserver-xorg-input-* or xserver-xorg-video-*
Last edited by altman (2024-04-26 12:10:18)
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There might also be a case for having gparted in a base install - any opinions?
Yeah, maybe not. It's not all that small a package, and would only be really useful in a live session. We're not in the business of making an alternative "rescue disk" - there are plenty already.
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johnraff wrote:...this revised package list:
bunsen-archive-keyring bunsen-common bunsen-configs-lite # soon to be replaced by bunsen-configs-base bunsen-exit bunsen-images-base bunsen-numix-icon-theme bunsen-themes bunsen-thunar arandr conky-all dillo dmz-cursor-theme galternatives gmrun inxi jgmenu lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings light-locker lxappearance nitrogen obconf openbox policykit-1 policykit-1-gnome polkitd-pkla python3-xdg rxvt-unicode scrot sensible-utils suckless-tools thunar thunar-volman tint2 xbindkeys xcape xauth xinit xserver-xorg x11-xserver-utils xsettingsd yad
I'll go ahead and add these to a new meta-bunsen-base metapackage, and also as an alternative in the bunsen-netinstall script. That will be accompanied by a new package bunsen-configs-base, slightly modified from bunsen-configs-lite, so that the menu isn't full of broken items. Maybe bunsen-themes can have a package bunsen-themes-base split off in the same way as with bunsen-images-base, to save install size? Further down the road, integration with bunsen-welcome...
It would be great to have it as an available ISO option as well as the Main version(so to speak).
I could see that, yes. But not till the package list has finally settled down. Having to build the iso over and over after every tweak wouldn't be a lot of fun.
We'd need both 32bit and 64bit versions?
Another thing - would firmware packages be needed? With a package list install, we can assume that the user has already got their basic Debian CLI system up and running, so has already sorted out some of the firmware. Maybe graphics stuff would still be needed though.
I guess a "basic" install is trickier than a "throw in everything including the kitchen sink" approach.
as well as with those added packages stated above : xserver-xorg-input-* or xserver-xorg-video-*
What I meant here:
...depending on their hardware, some users might need to install other packages to get a fully working X session, eg xserver-xorg-input-* or xserver-xorg-video-*
was that some users might need some of those xserver packages (the * meant "whatever"). The more "possibly useful" stuff we throw in, the further away it gets from being a basic list...
What might be good at this point would be for people with a VM to spare, or even a real machine, to try installing just that "base" list on top of a Debian CLI and report back what extra packages they needed to install just to get a usable desktop.
I'll upload a new bunsen-meta-base metapackage to the repo today, along with a slightly tweaked bunsen-configs-base, and also add the "base" option to the netinstall script.
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There might also be a case for having gparted in a base install - any opinions?
Not needed in a base install, IMO. fdisk.
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^Yes lets's keep this down as well as we can. There's so much pressure to add this or that...
Think of ways to make it easy for users to add stuff they want/need post-install. That's the whole point of "base" anyway.
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New packages uploaded: bunsen-meta-base, bunsen-configs-base and bunsen-themes-base
Now no need to copy the package list above, just install bunsen-meta-base --no-install-recommends on top of a basic Debian CLI install.
bunsen-configs-base has the stripped-down menu without any (I hope) broken items, and tweaked autostart to run the default conky and tint2 without using the scripts in bunsen-utilities (which isn't included in meta-base).
bunsen-themes-base is just the Boron themes split off into its own package to save size. (If you install bunsen-themes you'll get the other themes too.)
I'll set up the netinstall script tomorrow.
Last edited by johnraff (2024-04-28 00:32:13)
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Thx for the explanations @johnraff.
Appreciate the works in there.
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FYI, I tried removing xorg from my Wayland sessions, but it caused an Xwayland core dump for nearly every session. The session and Xwayland starts, but an Xwayland core dump file is created almost every time in the Home folder. Maybe it's created on logout, I don't know. Removing the xorg-server packages from this base install at this point would be a mistake, IMO, as reinstalling xorg-server seems to work, no Xwayland dump.
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FYI, I tried removing xorg from my Wayland sessions, but it caused an Xwayland core dump for nearly every session. The session and Xwayland starts, but an Xwayland core dump file is created almost every time in the Home folder. Maybe it's created on logout, I don't know. Removing the xorg-server packages from this base install at this point would be a mistake, IMO, as reinstalling xorg-server seems to work, no Xwayland dump.
What are the xorg-server packages you refer to? Are they included in the current base package list as dependencies of xserver-xorg or x11-xserver-utils?
Anyway, I would imagine anyone using Xwayland will need some of xorg installed. Xwayland itself already depends on xserver-common which in turn has 3 deps and 2 recommends. Maybe it was one of the recommends (xauth or xfonts-base) which was needed?
Pure Wayland only would presumably be OK without any X packages.
Last edited by johnraff (2024-05-09 04:12:32)
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