Floppy IOCTL support

Yogibaer · 2024-02-27 07:43:42

Hello,
I'd like to extend the use of IOCTL at bunsenlabs and volunteer for implementation.

Why: ###
As bunsenlabs supports 32Bit architecture and low RAM (e.g. 1GB) I'd like to use it for my "copy station" for vintage computers:

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.60GHz
1GiB System Memory
BunsenLabs GNU/Linux 11 (Beryllium)
Linux 5.10.0-28-686-pae
x86

USB2.0 Hub
AIC-7870P/7871 [AHA-2940/W/S76] (SCSI)
TSB43AB23 IEEE-1394a-2000 Controller (Firewire)
DVD_RW ND-3500AG
LS-120 VER5 00 (720KB/1.44MB/120MB)
QIC-40
5,25" 40 DD DS (360KB)
5,25" 80 HD DS (1.2MB)

One of the tools I use to create foreign floppy content is XTRS (Tim Mann).
It uses IOCTL to create physical floppy disks on a physical drive (Github).

Analyses: ###
XTRS does not access any physical drive with Beryllium.
I guess this is connected to this change (He's coming for your floppy: Linus Torvalds is killing off support for legacy disk drive tech).

Suggestion: ###
... unless some magnetic media meddler steps up to maintain it ...
In my opinion IOCTL is no longer needed on current hardware, but at 32Bit systems I'd appreciate having it.

Question: ###
As an experianced software developer I am not afraid, but I am new to building Linux kernels and I need some guidance.
Should that happen at bunsenlabs?
Should that take place at "the Linux kernel" (where/who ever that is)?

I'd appreciate any comment.

johnraff · 2024-02-28 06:03:04

Yogibaer wrote:

One of the tools I use to create foreign floppy content is XTRS (Tim Mann).
It uses IOCTL to create physical floppy disks on a physical drive (Github).
Analyses: ###
XTRS does not access any physical drive with Beryllium.
I guess this is connected to this change (He's coming for your floppy: Linus Torvalds is killing off support for legacy disk drive tech).
Suggestion: ###
... unless some magnetic media meddler steps up to maintain it ...
In my opinion IOCTL is no longer needed on current hardware, but at 32Bit systems I'd appreciate having it.
Question: ###
As an experianced software developer I am not afraid, but I am new to building Linux kernels and I need some guidance.
Should that happen at bunsenlabs?
Should that take place at "the Linux kernel" (where/who ever that is)?
I'd appreciate any comment.

BunsenLabs use the standard Debian kernel, so this is not the place for developing kernel capabilities. Support for floppy disks has been going out for some time now. I guess this is the article you were referring to?
https://www.theregister.com/2019/07/30/torvalds_floppy/
and
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commi … 3540a8f8f4

A web search of "debian ioctl" will bring up a lot of relevant-looking content, but doesn't give the impression that ioctl itself is going away.

Vintage computers so old that they cannot boot from a usb stick are extremely under-powered by today's standards, and the effort of installing an OS - BunsenLabs or other - from a pile of floppy disks would be great. If you were determined to continue anyway, I'd be inclined to suggest that you look for a smaller OS with minimal system requirements. Even DSL which used to be around 50MB is now more like 500. You might consider Slitaz: https://www.slitaz.org/en/

Last edited by johnraff (2024-02-28 06:13:55)

Yogibaer · 2024-03-05 09:50:45

Well, your argument to change the kernel at Debian is valid to me, but I think bunsenlabs is the better place to reenable floppy support during the kernel build here.

Why:
The PC, I am talking about, is a Pentium (32Bit) with CD-ROM and 1GB RAM. So it is no problem to install the current bunsenlabs distribution and I appretiate to have a modern system with all the security fixes.
But there are also three floppy drives attached to my PC (360KB, 1.2MB, LS-120) to fiddle with floppies from older systems. There are excellant emulators out there.

Where:
I follow the argument to disable IOCTL for floppies for current systems, as they in general don't have a floppy drive. So changing the build behaviour for all seems to be no good idea.
But bunsenlabs is aiming small systems like my Pentium PC with a special build.
I would like to contribute to this project to continue having IOCTL for floppies.
If this leads to a contribution to the Debian kernel I am fine with that.
But I need some help to start my contribution, as I have never build a kernel so far. As I am an engineer (Informatik FH) I expect to be able to do that.

johnraff · 2024-03-06 06:00:18

BunsenLabs is Debian. We choose a selection of packages and do some configuration, but the underlying system - including the kernel - is default Debian. We do not do any custom kernel building.

I'm sorry but I don't think there's anything BunsenLabs can do to improve floppy disk support.

Yogibaer · 2024-03-06 09:07:02

Many thanks for your explanation. You are right, Debian is one of the last building a 32Bit distribution.
So BunsenLabs is just combining available binaries to a new distribution. I am sorry that I wasn't aware of that. Now I understand why there is no solution within BunsenLabs.
Thankyou

johnraff · 2024-03-07 06:04:19

BunsenLabs issues a collection of binaries that are not available in the regular Debian repositories, but they are 99% concerned only with the user interface: menus, graphics, utilities... We do add a 'bunsenlabs-session' at the system level to assist co-operation with other desktops, but don't touch the kernel.

Our source code is here: https://github.com/BunsenLabs

#1 2024-02-27 07:43:42

Floppy IOCTL support

#2 2024-02-28 06:03:04

Re: Floppy IOCTL support

#3 2024-03-05 09:50:45

Re: Floppy IOCTL support

#4 2024-03-06 06:00:18

Re: Floppy IOCTL support

#5 2024-03-06 09:07:02

Re: Floppy IOCTL support

#6 2024-03-07 06:04:19

Re: Floppy IOCTL support

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