Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

johnraff · 2023-04-20 05:38:04

This Debian Wiki page:
https://wiki.debian.org/GraphicsCard
says, for Intel graphics cards:

If your graphic card was manufactured in 2007 and newer, try uninstalling the xserver-xorg-video-intel package and use the builtin modesetting driver (xserver-xorg-core) instead.

What % of our users do you folks think are likely to be using pre-2007 graphics? Is the advantage of switching to modesetting for the newer people big enough to justify dropping xserver-xorg-video-intel and possibly causing trouble for people with the older hardware?

Drop xserver-xorg-video-intel, or not?

hhh · 2023-04-20 07:28:00

New-ish Lenovo Intel Ideapad i3 laptop, just removed it and rebooted, no difference (if anything it might be better, I didn't test screen tearing pre-removal but post, it's phenomenal. Zero.)

Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence, though.

or1o9 · 2023-04-20 16:29:30

sudo apt remove xserver-xorg-video-intel
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  bunsen-meta-all xserver-xorg-video-intel
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 3,294 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.

Old Thinkpad, 2011 - ish. Better keep it for now on this machine.

hhh · 2023-04-20 18:16:48

^ I'm sure you know that bunsen-meta-all is just that, a meta package, removing it won't (shouldn't) remove any actual packages, it's like deleting a shortcut.

You might want to try removing the intel package and rebooting, you can always reinstall it and reboot again to revert back if you get worse graphics performance.

johnraff · 2023-04-21 03:03:49

hhh wrote:

bunsen-meta-all is just that, a meta package, removing it won't (shouldn't) remove any actual packages

I think now if a package is in the "Metapackages" section, it's as you say - dependencies won't be removed even if the metapackage goes.

It used to be different - once the metapackage was removed, apt would keep prompting you to "autoremove" all the dependencies.

or1o9 · 2023-04-21 03:03:52

Yes, but actually I felt a bit insecure in the heat of the moment. Did remove it and looks like it did not bother anything.

el_koraco · 2023-04-21 08:38:16

hhh wrote:

New-ish Lenovo Intel Ideapad i3 laptop, just removed it and rebooted, no difference (if anything it might be better, I didn't test screen tearing pre-removal but post, it's phenomenal. Zero.)
Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence, though.

This is due to mutter. If you run xorg without a compositor, the only way not to have tear free is with the intel xorg driver.

hhh · 2023-04-21 15:54:33

A WM/DE without a compositor, are you mad? This isn't 1998. Rounded corners and transparency, and cool window fade-ins and outs, dagummit!

el_koraco · 2023-04-21 16:54:03

I've gone all 2008/glittersloth.

hhh · 2023-04-22 12:26:21

I can respect that.

jeffreyC · 2023-04-22 13:05:37

Maybe leave it in on the i386 build, those are the most likely to be used on computers old enough to need that driver.

el_koraco · 2023-04-22 16:05:58

hhh wrote:

I can respect that.

But yeah, a wm on X without a compositor is the only use case in which the driver is needed, hence the warning on sites like the Arch wiki, since a lot of users there hipsterize their desktops. Since Bunsen runs with picom, I think the removal is warranted.

hhh · 2023-04-22 17:14:15

^ Good feedback, thanks.

johnraff · 2023-04-23 03:07:48

jeffreyC wrote:

Maybe leave it in on the i386 build, those are the most likely to be used on computers old enough to need that driver.

That might be the way to go.

johnraff · 2025-10-28 09:45:11

REVISITING in 2025

Now there are no i386 builds, I guess it is finally time to drop xserver-xorg-video-intel.

greenjeans · 2025-10-28 16:08:13

Just a data byte: I am loathe to drop xorg-server packages on my own projects, i've actually had to install older ones that are no longer in a standard xorg install to get a 2009 machine to work, older AMD packages r128 and mach64. But that's me, i'm specifically trying to support a wide variety of older hardware and trying to make everything "just work" right out of the box if possible on machines going back over 20 years, BL protocol may be different with regard to time frame for support but having looked at all the firmware on your iso it sure seems like BL is trying to do the same, works great on my 2012 lappy. So why leave obscure firmware in but start removing xorg drivers? JMHO, just thinking out loud.

johnraff · 2025-10-29 00:49:35

greenjeans wrote:

...why leave obscure firmware in but start removing xorg drivers?

There might well be scope for leaving out some of those old firmware packages, especially now that the debian-installer does more on its own to figure out missing stuff. (Firmware takes up a lot of space.) That needs a separate thread.

But the reason for suggesting dropping xserver-xorg-video-intel in 2023 was that - according to both the Debian Wiki and the package itself - for graphics cards made in 2007 or later performance might be better without it. Please check back to the OP.

Reposting:

Debian Wiki wrote:

If your graphic card was manufactured in 2007 and newer, try uninstalling the xserver-xorg-video-intel package and use the builtin modesetting driver (xserver-xorg-core) instead.

'apt show xserver-xorg-video-intel' wrote:

The use of this driver is discouraged if your GPU is new enough (ca. 2007 and newer). You can try uninstalling this driver and let the server use its built-in modesetting driver instead.

But the key word is "try" - neither say you have to uninstall it.

greenjeans wrote:

i'm specifically trying to support a wide variety of older hardware and trying to make everything "just work" right out of the box if possible on machines going back over 20 years

BL's philosophy is not so far from that, but I'm not sure if we want to go back as far as 20 years. I think BunsenLabs is trying to be relevant right now, a meaningful choice to install also on computers made recently, for people who don't want a big DE. I'm in some doubt how many people would find 20 year old computers useful - other than as interesting toys - in the present day, especially now that 32bit support has pretty much gone away. However, my current machine is ~10 years old and does its job perfectly.
PS: I noticed I still have xserver-xorg-video-intel installed here, removed it and rebooted. Everything seems OK so far...

So it's a choice between a possible improvement in performance for some users vs a hit for others.

Last edited by johnraff (2025-10-29 01:02:29)

DeepDayze · 2025-10-29 01:31:23

johnraff wrote:

REVISITING in 2025
Now there are no i386 builds, I guess it is finally time to drop xserver-xorg-video-intel.

That makes sense as Debian has moved to the modesetting driver by default for Intel graphics chips.

greenjeans · 2025-10-29 16:27:16

@johnraff, thanks for clarifying, that makes sense. And I reckon if someone does have a pre-2007 intel machine they can always install the package easily enough. Maybe a note in the release notes or something just so folks are aware?

johnraff · 2025-10-30 02:17:09

greenjeans wrote:

Maybe a note in the release notes or something just so folks are aware?

Good idea. I'll add it to my release notes do-do list.

#1 2023-04-20 05:38:04

Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#2 2023-04-20 07:28:00

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#3 2023-04-20 16:29:30

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#4 2023-04-20 18:16:48

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#5 2023-04-21 03:03:49

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#6 2023-04-21 03:03:52

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#7 2023-04-21 08:38:16

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#8 2023-04-21 15:54:33

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#9 2023-04-21 16:54:03

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#10 2023-04-22 12:26:21

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#11 2023-04-22 13:05:37

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#12 2023-04-22 16:05:58

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#13 2023-04-22 17:14:15

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#14 2023-04-23 03:07:48

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#15 2025-10-28 09:45:11

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#16 2025-10-28 16:08:13

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#17 2025-10-29 00:49:35

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#18 2025-10-29 01:31:23

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#19 2025-10-29 16:27:16

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

#20 2025-10-30 02:17:09

Re: Drop server-xorg-video-intel from the default install list?

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