Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

johnraff · 2023-02-20 09:25:32

Maybe we could add a metapackage (and possibly even an iso if there's time) which pulls in only the essential BunsenLabs packages, and the bare bones of a system to support them? Like, obviously openbox, xorg, the "standard system utilities", a terminal emulator, file manager - all the necessary things to manage a system, but nothing more. No image viewer, media player, not even a web browser. The user would have to install whatever they wanted themselves.

Would there be a use scenario for that?

or1o9 · 2023-02-20 15:55:49

Probably mostly interesting for those who like to tinker and the possibility to build up from scratch. Nothing for me, but why not?

How would a such "lite" install affect the menu? Would it autoupdate itself automatically with the changes the user make, or must the user mold it manually?

johnraff · 2023-02-20 23:57:18

^If it was shipped with the regular menu, a lot of the items wouldn't work, that's true. The "applications" menu near the bottom is automatically filled, and some of the pipe menus would still work.

We could ship it with a minimal stripped-down menu that the user would have to add things to as they went on, or else with the regular menu, that they'd have to remove the broken items from (or install the missing apps).

There is already a bunsen-meta-lite metapackage (used in the 32-bit iso) but it's trying to reproduce BunsenLabs as far as possible while reducing the system load a bit. It's not all that different from the regular metapackage except for a few app substitutions. That menu is slightly changed from the regular menu.

This suggestion of bunsen-meta-base is for just the skeleton, no actual useful functions - the user would have to add those.

or1o9 · 2023-02-21 04:52:53

Thanks for the explanation. My penny goes to a "minimal stripped-down menu that the user would have to add things to as they went on." This could be a fun and productive exercise with a lot of learning whilst tinkering with it. And as long as it not draws attention from the main release I can not see any harm in it.

Actually it might with time attract new users/tinkers to BunsenLabs?!

johnraff · 2023-02-21 05:53:18

If it can be done quickly and easily it might be worth adding to the bunsen-meta-all source package.

I'll post a suggested package list here in a day or two to see what people think.

jimjamz · 2023-11-11 23:17:45

I would be very much interested in a lighter base package to run on a tablet. I would like to have BL as my OS for an e-reader:
https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/wiki

hhh · 2023-11-12 13:14:00

I'd leave in jgmenu and the restart scripts for conky and tint2, those right there make using openbox so much easier. I'd also leave in Firefox to web search if something needs fixing.

johnraff · 2023-11-14 05:09:51

johnraff wrote:

I'll post a suggested package list here in a day or two to see what people think.

Of course I never got round to doing that...

hhh wrote:

I'd leave in jgmenu and the restart scripts for conky and tint2, those right there make using openbox so much easier. I'd also leave in Firefox to web search if something needs fixing.

jgmenu +1

Actually the conky and tint2 scripts would have been on my list for leaving out.
Though anyone using either of those would want the scripts, agreed. But where to draw the line? Some of the pipemenus are quite useful too...

But obconf, for sure.

A web browser, indispensible, but Firefox is so big. Let's put in dillo and leave anything more to the user?

---
Two aspects of "light":

1) Sheer size in megabytes of the installed system. With modern drives this is not an issue for normal computers, but might be relevant on specialized hardware.

2) System power: memory and CPU requirements.

Piling in lots of scripts and utilities will affect 1) but not 2).
Software that runs daemons, and big icon themes, for example, can affect 2).

hhh · 2023-11-14 07:00:33

Your reasoning is sound, go with it.

johnraff · 2023-11-14 09:20:54

I'm not going to devote much energy to this project till Boron is out, along with all the release notes etc etc, but I still think a "base" iso would be a useful thing to put out, and maybe not too difficult to do. It might not require much more than making a trimmed-down package list. Possibly a tweaked version of bunsen-configs?

grubernd · 2023-12-07 19:37:30

Interesting .. I consider bunsenlabs a very minimalistic desktop already.

If I want/need to go without any GUI there is always pure debian.
On such a machine I never miss the stuff that makes bunsenlabs so awesome.

Would there be any resource hogs to get rid of?
Especially those that can not be solved by a bunch of apt purges?

My machines are all from 2013 or later and running from SSDs 120G or larger so whatever I do it is never BL that slows me down.

johnraff · 2024-04-20 04:59:42

Revisiting this project now. Working from a base Debian netinstall with only the standard system utilities, and gradually adding a selection of the BL packages (--no-install-recommends) plus some of the recommends to try and get an idea of the minimum necessary to get a working desktop that still feels like BunsenLabs.

johnraff · 2024-04-20 06:34:44

Anyone who'd like to join in:

1) install a base Debian Bookworm CLI system, following steps 1~3 here: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=8437

2) When you get to step 4 in the above post, instead of installing the bunsen metapackage, install these packages, using apt's --no-install-recommends option:

bunsen-common
bunsen-archive-keyring
bunsen-configs-lite
bunsen-images-base
bunsen-numix-icon-theme
bunsen-themes
bunsen-thunar
bunsen-exit
conky-all
dillo
dmz-cursor-theme
galternatives
jgmenu
lightdm
lightdm-gtk-greeter
lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
lxappearance
nitrogen
openbox
obconf
policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome
polkitd-pkla
rxvt-unicode
scrot
sensible-utils
thunar
thunar-volman
tint2
xbindkeys
xcape
xserver-xorg
xauth
xinit
x11-xserver-utils
xsettingsd
yad
bunsen-utilities
bunsen-pipemenus

You might consider leaving out bunsen-utilities and/or bunsen-pipemenus - you can always install them later if you change your mind. The same applies to many of the items on that list in fact.

Please post any suggestions for packages to add to or take off that list to make a BL base system.
The text editor is nano in a terminal, but that's not too hard once you get used to it. The web browser is dillo which is basic indeed but OK for searching docs and the like.

For copy/paste:

sudo apt install --no-install-recommends bunsen-common bunsen-archive-keyring bunsen-configs-lite bunsen-images-base bunsen-numix-icon-theme bunsen-themes bunsen-thunar bunsen-exit conky-all dillo dmz-cursor-theme galternatives jgmenu lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings lxappearance nitrogen openbox obconf policykit-1 policykit-1-gnome polkitd-pkla rxvt-unicode scrot sensible-utils thunar thunar-volman tint2 xbindkeys xcape xserver-xorg xauth xinit x11-xserver-utils xsettingsd yad bunsen-utilities bunsen-pipemenus

altman · 2024-04-20 20:58:44

Thx for this command @Johnraff, I forgot it;

sudo apt install --no-install-recommends whatever

Last edited by altman (2024-04-20 20:59:03)

micko01 · 2024-04-21 03:00:20

^^ nice @johnraff

I decided to try this in a qemu VM, with a 10GB qcow2 image file.

First attempt I followed https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=8437 guide and got hung up at trying to edit with nano, just would not close. had to CTRL-C in the terminal to kill the VM.

Second attempt I added the root password. All booted fine until I tried to 'sudo'

sudo command not found

No problem.

su - root

to the rescue.

Fearing that nano had a bug I used `sed` in place to edit and `echo` to add the necessary files as root. Also added `sudo` and added my user to the sudo file:

adduser mick sudo

. Naturally `sudo` wouldn't work until I rebooted. To my surprise the login and then desktop came up as near good as the original Boron iso

`sudo` is working after the reboot so I installed firefox-esr.

`nano` is working as a user so I edited the conky config. The installed system with firefox is 2.74GB in size. Pretty good I reckon.

Great job!

Disclaimer: I don't recommend running as root unless you are an experienced operator and are prepared to live with the consequences of typos.

johnraff · 2024-04-21 04:11:56

Thanks @micko01 for trying it out.

micko01 wrote:

First attempt I followed https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=8437 guide and got hung up at trying to edit with nano, just would not close. had to CTRL-C in the terminal to kill the VM.

Strange - I wonder if the VM itself had frozen at that point for some reason? Of course you used Ctrl+x to close nano? After closing nano all the content remains on the screen, with the shell prompt at the bottom, so sometimes it's easy to miss that it really has closed.

Second attempt I added the root password. All booted fine until I tried to 'sudo'
sudo command not found

If you add a root password you won't get sudo powers. That's how the Debian installer is set up. Bl recommends sudo (ie no root password) but of course users are free to work how they prefer.

But more than that, I don't understand how that could relate to the problem of nano not closing. Maybe the issue - whatever it was - was already gone on the second attempt anyway?

Fearing that nano had a bug I used `sed` in place to edit and `echo` to add the necessary files as root.

Fine, though I don't think nano has any such bug. It's always worked OK for me in similar situations.

I don't recommend running as root unless you are an experienced operator and are prepared to live with the consequences of typos.

No indeed! Did you end up running your system as root? OK for testing maybe but definitely to be avoided on a working machine.

But anyway, many thanks for the feedback!

johnraff · 2024-04-21 04:55:24

I'm now thinking that if we're going to offer a "base" install then we might as well leave out bunsen-utilities and bunsen-pipemenus, as they do bring in some dependencies.

That means no tint2 or conky session scripts, so the commands in ~/.config/bunsen/autostart will have to be changed to launch them directly:

# comment out this line:
#bl-conky-session &
# replace with:
conky -c ~/.config/conky/BL-Default-conky.conf &

# and similarly:

#( sleep 2; bl-tint2-session ) &
( sleep 2; tint2 -c ~/.config/tint2/tint2rc ) &

---
And add the clipboard manager xfce4-clipman, which people might find useful setting things up.

---
And maybe the menu should be cut down, only to show the things that are available?

This would all mean providing a package bunsen-configs-base with the alternative config files.

Not too hard though, once we agree on exactly what should go in.

micko01 · 2024-04-21 09:34:17

johnraff wrote:

Thanks @micko01 for trying it out.
micko01 wrote:
First attempt I followed https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=8437 guide and got hung up at trying to edit with nano, just would not close. had to CTRL-C in the terminal to kill the VM.
Strange - I wonder if the VM itself had frozen at that point for some reason? Of course you used Ctrl+x to close nano? After closing nano all the content remains on the screen, with the shell prompt at the bottom, so sometimes it's easy to miss that it really has closed.

There's no bug with nano! The bug is either in qemu or labwc (my host system). You see I used `-full-screen` option to qemu, but running the installed cli system windowed all worked as expected. This does require further investigation, but should not affect anyone using a bare metal install.

Second attempt I added the root password. All booted fine until I tried to 'sudo'
sudo command not found
If you add a root password you won't get sudo powers. That's how the Debian installer is set up. Bl recommends sudo (ie no root password) but of course users are free to work how they prefer.

Yes horses for courses. In fact I think I prefer to add root password.

But more than that, I don't understand how that could relate to the problem of nano not closing. Maybe the issue - whatever it was - was already gone on the second attempt anyway?
Fearing that nano had a bug I used `sed` in place to edit and `echo` to add the necessary files as root.
Fine, though I don't think nano has any such bug. It's always worked OK for me in similar situations.

I didn't think nano had such a bug either; I've been using it for years. See above, PEBKAC.

I don't recommend running as root unless you are an experienced operator and are prepared to live with the consequences of typos.
No indeed! Did you end up running your system as root?

Nope. Don't at all like to run anything graphical as root.

OK for testing maybe but definitely to be avoided on a working machine.
But anyway, many thanks for the feedback!

Yes, and you're welcome.

IMHO, what would be really nice is an optional config file to install all the BL stuff and possibly add extras (like firefox, ffmpeg, which I added).

Thanks again for your work. Scrot follows:

Full size

johnraff · 2024-04-21 11:55:15

micko01 wrote:

IMHO, what would be really nice is an optional config file to install all the BL stuff and possibly add extras (like firefox, ffmpeg, which I added).

Well, bunsen-configs (or *-lite) ships the configs - user and system - that BL needs so you've got that already. If you mean all the other packages that make up a full (or lite) BL system, that's what the metapackages are for. In the HOW-TO I linked above, bunsen-meta-all or bunsen-meta-lite is installed and pulls in all the other packages via its dependencies.

The eventual goal of this little project is to add a third, bunsen-meta-base.

As to individual packages like firefox or ffmpeg, they're only an apt-get away.

johnraff · 2024-04-21 11:59:33

Possible other candidates for the 'base' package list might be suckless-tools (for dmenu) and gmrun.

#1 2023-02-20 09:25:32

Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#2 2023-02-20 15:55:49

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#3 2023-02-20 23:57:18

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#4 2023-02-21 04:52:53

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#5 2023-02-21 05:53:18

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#6 2023-11-11 23:17:45

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#7 2023-11-12 13:14:00

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#8 2023-11-14 05:09:51

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#9 2023-11-14 07:00:33

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#10 2023-11-14 09:20:54

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#11 2023-12-07 19:37:30

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#12 2024-04-20 04:59:42

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#13 2024-04-20 06:34:44

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#14 2024-04-20 20:58:44

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#15 2024-04-21 03:00:20

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#16 2024-04-21 04:11:56

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#17 2024-04-21 04:55:24

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#18 2024-04-21 09:34:17

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#19 2024-04-21 11:55:15

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

#20 2024-04-21 11:59:33

Re: Add a bunsen-meta-base metapackage?

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