Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

unklar · 2022-12-16 14:28:14

hhh wrote:

Plus, to me at least and maybe it's because I'm used to the Debian install, handling the install partition, whether to format or not, whether to include a swap partition or not, and whether and where to install Grub or not are all handled more clearly by the Debian Installer.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Debian uses the Debian Installer, we're a somewhat "purist" distro, let's keep it the way it was for now.

+100

rbh · 2022-12-16 15:10:53

hhh wrote:

Debian uses the Debian Installer, we're a somewhat "purist" distro, let's keep it the way it was for now.

But Debian has adopted Calamares: "Starting from Debian 10 Buster, the live images contain the end-user-friendly Calamares Installer, a distribution-independent installer framework, as alternative to our well known Debian-Installer."
https://www.debian.org/CD/live/index.en.html

Today there is at least a dozen well-known dists, shipping Clamares in live images.

I like Calamares. It's partionmanager is good. But Debian installer is better.

So, for Debian Calamares is a Good alternative to make it possible to install from live session.
But it takes some work to implement it. If anyone presents an live image with calamares, we sure should use it.

johnraff · 2022-12-17 01:32:11

Calamares does seem attractive to end-users, but to add it to the BL iso would involve more work for our small developer team. As I said earlier (2021/8):

johnraff wrote:

Calamares seems to use some KDE libraries so it would likely add some megabytes to the ISO size.
There seem to be more bugs with Calamares than D-I, and definitely less functionality.
(EDIT: I don't know if this is still true in 2022/12 though.)
If BL shipped a configured Calamares we'd have to support user issues with two install methods.
This to save users from having to do a reboot, and to provide a nicer GUI.
Personally, I'm not too fired up about investing a lot of time into configuring a BL Calamares, at least at this point, but if anyone felt like putting together some config (and preferably also answering the user questions on the forum) then it might be a nice thing to add to our live session. I'll happily provide any necessary info about the stuff in our isos.
We'd also have to work at making it clear to first-time users that there are two different installers, and what the differences between them are.

el_koraco · 2022-12-17 09:20:48

installers are bloat, we should just give users sparse infromation on how to deboostrap.

deleted0 · 2022-12-17 13:50:37

I'd like to see it clearly defined - the BL target audience.
IMO, from that POV, all decisions should made.

8bit

johnraff · 2022-12-18 01:37:25

eight.bit.al wrote:

I'd like to see it clearly defined - the BL target audience.

How about "people who like the stuff we do"?

Philip Newborough explicitly stated that #! was aimed at no-one in particular.

hhh · 2022-12-18 07:48:50

unklar wrote:

hhh wrote:
Plus, to me at least and maybe it's because I'm used to the Debian install, handling the install partition, whether to format or not, whether to include a swap partition or not, and whether and where to install Grub or not are all handled more clearly by the Debian Installer.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Debian uses the Debian Installer, we're a somewhat "purist" distro, let's keep it the way it was for now.
+100

For this, very, very late relase, at least. I guess we're talking Boron here, adding Calamares.

hhh · 2022-12-18 07:54:30

el_koraco wrote:

installers are bloat, we should just give users sparse infromation on how to deboostrap.

One for the "Tutorials" forum, if anyone has the time. But not sparse... lay it down as best is possible in layman's terms and link the Debian and Arch Wikis...

https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Instal … ting_Linux

Or better links, if anyone has them

johnraff · 2022-12-19 02:56:19

hhh wrote:

unklar wrote:
hhh wrote:
Plus, to me at least and maybe it's because I'm used to the Debian install, handling the install partition, whether to format or not, whether to include a swap partition or not, and whether and where to install Grub or not are all handled more clearly by the Debian Installer.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Debian uses the Debian Installer, we're a somewhat "purist" distro, let's keep it the way it was for now.
+100
For this, very, very late relase, at least. I guess we're talking Boron here, adding Calamares.

You jest sir. Beryllium is just about to appear and adding anything at this point...

As for Boron, I've already posted my opinion about adding a second installer. If anyone wants to do the work to configure Calamares for BL I won't actively try to stop them.

hhh · 2022-12-19 05:57:44

Good. Done and done. KISS works for me (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

or1o9 · 2022-12-20 04:50:47

^Yes, for me too. The Debian installer works fine and I do not find it to be too much "work" to do a reboot when I want to install.No point in wasting time and effort on something that works well.

hhh · 2022-12-20 08:27:45

^ Thanks for the feedback, and agreed. If anyone has a problem, they can look at our forum, even without registering, and discover how we do things.

Kudos to @JohnRaff, who released BE pretty much single-handedly!

johnraff · 2022-12-22 01:43:54

johnraff wrote:

eight.bit.al wrote:
I'd like to see it clearly defined - the BL target audience.
IMO, from that POV, all decisions should made.
How about "people who like the stuff we do"?
Philip Newborough explicitly stated that #! was aimed at no-one in particular.

That answer was a bit too easy. Without any particular goal in mind, any project is apt to wander aimlessly.

But OTOH a small team can't just come up with any feature - goals have to be set realistically.

And of course with volunteers motivation is hugely important. No-one can be forced to work on stuff they're not interested in. There's no duty for BL - or any open source project - to satisfy the needs of any imagined audience. Unlike commercial projects, nobody's going to make any money from a wild success. I guess the developers on XFCE or Debian get some personal satisfaction from their work, but check out the Debian mailing lists to see a pretty wide spectrum of attitudes.

hhh · 2022-12-22 04:47:02

johnraff wrote:

... but check out the Debian mailing lists to see a pretty wide spectrum of attitudes.

Heck, just look at the still-continuing debate over systemd!

#21 2022-12-16 14:28:14

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#22 2022-12-16 15:10:53

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#23 2022-12-17 01:32:11

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#24 2022-12-17 09:20:48

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#25 2022-12-17 13:50:37

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#26 2022-12-18 01:37:25

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#27 2022-12-18 07:48:50

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#28 2022-12-18 07:54:30

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#29 2022-12-19 02:56:19

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#30 2022-12-19 05:57:44

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#31 2022-12-20 04:50:47

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#32 2022-12-20 08:27:45

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#33 2022-12-22 01:43:54

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

#34 2022-12-22 04:47:02

Re: Add "Install" -option to the Live session's Welcome-screen or menu

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