Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

johnraff · 2022-11-25 02:48:45

Beryllium users should check they have a time sync daemon installed, and if not, install systemd-timesyncd or alternatively chrony or ntpsec.

Up to and including Debian Buster, systemd included the daemon systemd-timesyncd which would keep a system clock in sync even without the (now deprecated) ntp package. From Bullseye systemd-timesyncd is a separate package, but because of its relationship with systemd, and package priority, might not have been installed in BunsenLabs Beryllium by default.

I discovered this issue when I noticed that my computer clock was about 1min ahead of the TV time!

systemd-timesyncd has now been added to the package list for the next build of the Beryllium iso, and also to bunsen-meta-all, though since s-t now has a priority of "standard" it should probably be installed in future anyway.

Reference:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=986651
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=993947

juancuyo · 2022-11-25 23:33:27

Good afternoon, I see that the Lithium version is still available on the official website, is there an approximate date to download the Berillium version from the official website?

DeepDayze · 2022-11-25 23:46:33

ntpsec installed here and it works for me.

Sector11 · 2022-11-25 23:59:04

I have bullseye installed with "ntp" and none of the programs mentioned in the first post.

Since the references seem to point to systemd-timesyncd and it's a coming in the future thing, what is the best way to do this?

uninstall ntp
install systemd-timesyncd
reboot - if needed

or

install systemd-timesyncd
uninstall ntp
reboot - if needed

johnraff · 2022-11-26 00:48:33

^I didn't need to reboot my system, but I didn't have ntp installed. As soon as I installed systemd-timesyncd my system clock was brought into sync.

Maybe the cleanest way would be to uninstall ntp first, then install systemd-timesyncd (or ntpsec, or chrony).

S-t looks like the smallest of the three, but some people might want the extra features of ntpsec or chrony.

johnraff · 2022-11-26 00:52:56

juancuyo wrote:

Good afternoon, I see that the Lithium version is still available on the official website, is there an approximate date to download the Berillium version from the official website?

Beryllium beta is available on Sourceforge: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=8239

The official Beryllium will be released ASAP
Server migration is continuing - it's slow because important devs have outside commitments - but I think the official release shouldn't be too far away now.

Sector11 · 2022-11-26 03:48:08

johnraff wrote:

{snip}As soon as I installed systemd-timesyncd my system clock was brought into sync.{snip}

Time remained the same.

johnraff · 2022-11-26 04:46:11

^That would be because you were already using ntp, which had your system synced.

In my case I had no time sync daemonat all.

The reason to switch from ntp is that it's no longer maintained.

Sector11 · 2022-11-26 13:58:59

johnraff wrote:

{snip}
The reason to switch from ntp is that it's no longer maintained.

Yea and it looks like the systemd one is the choice Debian is going with.

I still hate systemd {just a personal opinion}

jeffreyC · 2022-11-26 14:37:23

NTPsec is the secure, hardened, improved replacement for ntp, which is why the developers dropped ntp.

ntpsec is available in Bullseye, Bookworm and Sid.

Sector11 · 2022-11-26 15:01:37

Dumped: systemd-timesyncd
and installed NPTsec

dolly · 2022-11-26 15:30:49

Didn´t find any of the above mentioned installed here. Went with systemd-timesyncd but have not noticed if I have been out of sync with time anyway.

sleekmason · 2022-11-26 17:23:13

jeffreyC wrote:

NTPsec is the secure, hardened, improved replacement for ntp, which is why the developers dropped ntp.
ntpsec is available in Bullseye, Bookworm and Sid.

Thank you! From my own tests of ntp, chrony, and systemd-timesyncd placed during a build, only ntp would keep track of the time automatically, while chrony and systemd-timesyncd needed manual intervention to update, or whatever triggers they may have.

So systemd-timesnycd works just fine for a desktop install, but apparently not so great where any difference in time may create a problem. Servers and such.

Now need to test with ntpsec:)

Sector11 · 2022-11-26 23:15:18

sleekmason wrote:

Now need to test with ntpsec:)

How did you test?

sleekmason · 2022-11-27 00:33:02

Sector11 wrote:

sleekmason wrote:
Now need to test with ntpsec:)
How did you test?

Well, ntpsec did not allow for the auto synchronization feature either. However, I am not using Bunsenlabs, and am also testing gnome-system-tools to provide Time and Date, a gui program to set time and keep track of zones.

In the time-date program, all the different daemons work, but only ntp itself allows for keeping synchronized with internet servers automatically.

Something of possible note is that ntp does not show to be deprecated when looking with 'apt show'. Normally it will say if a program is deprecated as I remember it.

I saw where ubuntu declared it was deprecated for their uses, and understand that the other time daemons are supposed to be the replacement for it, but so far on my system this is what I have experienced. Could be the time-date program itself is the issue. Don't know.

That being said, the systemd-timesyncd works well for desktop use and I am still using it in a minimal build. I have used it for some time with no issues. I've read where it can wander off time a bit, but don't know if it would matter to the common user or not.

I went with ntp for now, and have not had any issues there either. I suppose it's a simple enough daemon it probably doesn't matter much which you use except ntp may try to connect more often.

Last edited by sleekmason (2022-11-27 00:44:27)

johnraff · 2022-11-27 01:37:35

As long as something is installed I don't think for the desktop user the choice matters that much. I posted this because a couple of days ago I suddenly realized that my computer's clock was more than a minute off!

On Debian Buster and earlier, systemd-timesyncd was included in systemd so everybody had it anyway. Now it's been separated off, making it optional for people using something else, or on very minimal systems that don't need a time sync daemon at all. (In fact, rather than choosing the systemd option, Debian are loosening the tie with systemd here.)

I haven't noticed any need to manually update the time sync with s-t though, it seems to do the job OK by itself. Installing it on my system was all that I had to do to get my clock back on time. While I was on Buster, and s-t was all I had, the clock always seemed to be in sync. Maybe standard Debian includes some automation that was missing from @sleekmason's test builds? Reading below, what I get is that s-t is not good enough to use as a time server, but OK for keeping a local system in sync.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-timesyncd
https://opensource.com/article/20/6/time-date-systemd
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/ … -debian-10

DeepDayze · 2022-11-27 02:32:54

Perhaps offer either ntpsec of systemd-timesyncd via a BL-welcome question and install s-t by default for starters? S-T can be disabled if the user chose to go with ntpsec via that BL-Welcome question.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2022-11-27 02:33:40)

jeffreyC · 2022-11-27 03:20:30

Looking at Debian packages, ntp is not listed as deprecated.

ntpdate is listed as deprecated and sntp is suggested as the replacement.

sleekmason · 2022-11-27 05:00:41

johnraff wrote:

Maybe standard Debian includes some automation that was missing from @sleekmason's test builds? Reading below, what I get is that s-t is not good enough to use as a time server, but OK for keeping a local system in sync.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-timesyncd
https://opensource.com/article/20/6/time-date-systemd
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/ … -debian-10

Yes, that is what I gather as well. My understanding is that the manual synchronization, as they are calling it, still gets triggered often enough to not cause any issues except on systems that don't see any real system condition changes for extended periods of time, or those that need an extremely precise time synchronization for some reason.

The Time & Date app is pretty convenient. I don't think it's a case of anything missing, but I do not know that for sure. Surprise a day in linux. After using ntp for a month or so, I've haven't noticed anything one way or the other. Before the time & date program, I was just using systemd-timesyncd for the daemon, and dpkg-reconfigure tzdata to change the settings with zero issues.

Last edited by sleekmason (2022-11-27 05:16:36)

Sector11 · 2022-11-27 14:26:38

Funny thing but for a thousand years¹ I have used ntp. Never had a problem with it.

This all sounds like one of those changes for the sake of change.

______________
¹ read: as far back as I can remember

#1 2022-11-25 02:48:45

Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#2 2022-11-25 23:33:27

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#3 2022-11-25 23:46:33

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#4 2022-11-25 23:59:04

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#5 2022-11-26 00:48:33

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#6 2022-11-26 00:52:56

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#7 2022-11-26 03:48:08

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#8 2022-11-26 04:46:11

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#9 2022-11-26 13:58:59

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#10 2022-11-26 14:37:23

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#11 2022-11-26 15:01:37

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#12 2022-11-26 15:30:49

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#13 2022-11-26 17:23:13

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#14 2022-11-26 23:15:18

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#15 2022-11-27 00:33:02

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#16 2022-11-27 01:37:35

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#17 2022-11-27 02:32:54

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#18 2022-11-27 03:20:30

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#19 2022-11-27 05:00:41

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

#20 2022-11-27 14:26:38

Re: Beryllium users might need to install a time sync daemon

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