Beryllium beta iso available for testing

ghorvath · 2022-11-03 22:13:01

rbh wrote:

Here is BL tutorial "Upgrading from Helium to Lithium" https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6913

Thank you, this is very helpful. I think most of these steps are applicable for upgrading to Beryllium.
This one step though, can someone point me what are the postinstall steps corresponding to these:

damo wrote:

To bring the system up-to-date with Lithium you need to install
inxi - system information script and utilities
lshw - hardware configuration information
haveged - fix for entropy bug
at - required for beepmein. It needs to be installed without recommends else it will pull in a bunch of geeky email software.
and the replacements for terminator, gnumeric and mirage, which can be set as defaults using Debian Alternatives.
lxterminal
libreoffice calc
ristretto
To get the default Lithium desktop restore the Lithium BLOB after the bl-user-setup config updates (Menu > BL Utilities > BLOB Themes Manager).
For configuration of a Lithium Bunsenlabs session, have a look at Getting Started > Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop. The main changes are that the menu and application keybinds are now set by jgmenu and xbindkeys, and autostart is now ~/.config/bunsen/autostart.

hhh · 2022-11-14 06:30:33

ghorvath wrote:

Big thanks for the beta release!
Installed on a laptop and on a desktop. Latter needed nomodeset for grub, otherwise it wouldn't boot. bl-welcome offered me several options, one of them the bunsen-images-archive install. I decided not to install it, and then later thought I would install it, anyway, but couldn't find it in the repository. I only found the bunsen-images and bunsen-images-base packages. Is that intended?
Otherwise looks good no issues whatsoever. Installed task-xfce-desktop with no-recommends, and I see that it does have the same right-click menu, good stuff! If only the keybinds (Win+T, Win+W) would work....
BTW, I have a laptop with Lithium on it. Is there a detailed description how I can upgrade that to Beryllium? Or is it as simple as rewriting the apt sources.list files, and sudo apt full-upgrade?

Late to the party, let's get you sorted.

nomodeset means you might need a video driver, post your desktop graphics setup (Nvidia, Intel?). Does your desktop boot?

bunsen-images-archives is old wallpapers and logos, you don't need it.

If your keyboard shortcuts don't work, and you can't fix them via the BL-Openbox config file, open a new thread so we can sort that separately.

There's a thread for upgrading to Beryllium...

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=7356

You can post any upgrade issues in Basic Help and Support at this point, Beryllium is way overdue because of real-life turmoil, which has been getting sorted over the last few months and is almost over (sorry)! Post any issues in Basic Help and Support, we're close to releasing an official Beryllium ISO.

Hope that helps, please post back with progress/failure updates. Thanks!

rbh · 2022-11-14 22:43:57

ghorvath wrote:

rbh wrote:
Here is BL tutorial "Upgrading from Helium to Lithium" https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6913
Thank you, this is very helpful. I think most of these steps are applicable for upgrading to Beryllium.

Should have answered earlier, but was occupied with other things and it slipped...
I have written Upgrade from Lithium to Beryllium

This one step though, can someone point me what are the postinstall steps corresponding to these:
damo wrote:
To bring the system up-to-date with Lithium you need to install
inxi - system information script and utilities
lshw - hardware configuration information
haveged - fix for entropy bug
at - required for beepmein. It needs to be installed without recommends else it will pull in a bunch of geeky email software.

But, all those packages is installed on an Lithium box. They needed to be installed after upgrading from Helium, but not now.

johnraff · 2022-11-15 05:49:20

There are some subtle issues about package lists with dist upgrades.

The most obvious is that the new system might ship some extra packages that weren't there before, as happens with Helium -> Lithium, mentioned above. The easiest way to cover this is to install bunsen-meta-all, which pulls in all the packages as dependencies. If you don't want everything then you can just have a look at the package list here, check it over for any packages you don't have but want, and install them individually.

Another point is that there might still be obsolete packages on your system which you no longer need. Upgrading from Lithium to Beryllium will not automatically remove packages that are no longer provided by Debian. Often these are harmless, but such unmaintained packages could mean a security risk, so it's best to get rid of them.

You can check: Menu > System > Synaptic Package Manager > Status > Installed (local or obsolete)
This will also show any packages you might have installed yourself, which you might possibly want to keep, also packages locally built for copyright reasons from a Debian builder package (like libdvdcss2). Think before removal.

Some more help in this 2011 post: https://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/02/07/d … -packages/

rbh · 2022-11-16 11:44:34

johnraff wrote:

There are some subtle issues about package lists with dist upgrades.

Yes, maybe it isn't sufficient to only have that information in the linked Debian documents.
I have updated the upgrade tutorial.

unklar · 2022-11-16 16:21:01

rbh wrote:

Yes, maybe it isn't sufficient to only have that information in the linked Debian documents.
I have updated the upgrade tutorial.

tutorial wrote:

To upgrade, run the following commands in sequence:
$ sudo apt update
$ sudo apt upgrade
$ sudo apt full-upgrade
Reboot, when upgrade is complete

This second command is nonsense in my opinion and not necessary in this context.

Have a look at man apt, especially the sections on

apt upgrade and
apt dist-upgrade[full-upgrade]

What upgrade may leave out and not do before, dist-upgrade[full-upgrade] does anyway, because it is necessary.

johnraff · 2022-11-17 00:15:11

unklar wrote:

tutorial wrote:
To upgrade, run the following commands in sequence:
$ sudo apt update
$ sudo apt upgrade
$ sudo apt full-upgrade
Reboot, when upgrade is complete
This second command is nonsense in my opinion and not necessary in this context.

Not total nonsense, and certainly does no harm. It will get installed packages up to date before doing any install/removal switches. Even apt likes a helping hand sometimes.

More than that:
1.3.2 Remove obsolete packages should happen in section 2 after the apt update/upgrade.
Of course it does no harm in section 1 too, if there are some long-standing obsolete packages on the system.

rbh · 2022-11-17 10:16:57

unklar wrote:

rbh wrote:
I have updated the upgrade tutorial.
tutorial wrote:
To upgrade, run the following commands in sequence:
$ sudo apt update
$ sudo apt upgrade
$ sudo apt full-upgrade
Reboot, when upgrade is complete
This second command is nonsense in my opinion and not necessary in this context.

Upgrading to a new version, will entail a new kernel version. It is possible to upgrade the running kernel without reboot, but that is far beyond the scoop of the tutorial. Reboot a workstation after kernel-upgrade, is good practice. If others is dependent of sevices from the pc, the administrator knows to schedule reboot to a most convinient time.

Have a look at man apt, especially the sections on
apt upgrade and
apt dist-upgrade[full-upgrade]
What upgrade may leave out and not do before, dist-upgrade[full-upgrade] does anyway, because it is necessary.

Do you mean it is safe to leave out intermediate step and go directly to "full-upgrade"? Yes, I assume that theoretically, it is possible. But the risk for errors would increase. That is why Debian recommends to upgrade in steps.

sleekmason · 2022-11-17 13:58:00

The Debian wiki for testing is a bit ambiguous on the upgrade, offering the full-ugrade as an option, while the unstable wiki clearly states:

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade

is the correct method to use there. So, apparently the middle step has no real need, but yeah, surely can't hurt

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable

Sector11 · 2022-11-17 14:25:49

Read the reply found here: unix|linux what is the difference between "apt dist-upgrade" and "apt full-upgrade"

sudo apt full-upgrade = apt-get dist-upgrade

NOTE: apt full-upgrade should not be called non-interactively.

The difference between upgrade and full-upgrade is that the later will remove the installed packages if that is needed to upgrade the whole system. Be extra careful when using this command

→ Also note ←

sudo apt update → only gives you an idea about the available updates, but it does not download or install the updates.

sudo apt upgrade → downloads and installs available updates

If you don’t use the update command, you won’t refresh the cache, which would not give you a clue about the available package updates.

That's why I have been using this alias since my early CrunchBang days:

17 Nov 22 @ 11:10:54 ~ $ alias up2 alias up2='sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade --no-install-recommends'

rbh · 2022-11-17 16:40:08

Sector11 wrote:

Read the reply found here: unix|linux what is the difference between "apt dist-upgrade" and "apt full-upgrade"
sudo apt full-upgrade = apt-get dist-upgrade

Command apt-get is older than command apt. The man-page for apt-get, mention "dist-upgrade", but not "full-upgrade". The man-page for apt, mention "full-upgrade", but not "dist-upgrade". But both apt and apt-get seems to understand both "full-upgrade" and "dist-upgrade"...

NOTE: apt full-upgrade should not be called non-interactively.

That is, should not be used in script.

The difference between upgrade and full-upgrade is that the later will remove the installed packages if that is needed to upgrade the whole system.

When upgrading to new dist version, it is always necessary to do a dist-upgrade.
I prefer not to force upgrade (with full-upgrade) when doing normal upgrade and package is held back.

rbh · 2022-11-17 16:59:20

sleekmason wrote:

The Debian wiki for testing is a bit ambiguous on the upgrade, offering the full-ugrade as an option, while the unstable wiki clearly states:
sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade
is the correct method to use there. So, apparently the middle step has no real need, but yeah, surely can't hurt

The releas-notes for Bullseye states:

4.4.4. Minimal system upgrade
In some cases, doing the full upgrade (as described below) directly might remove large numbers of packages that you will want to keep. We therefore recommend a two-part upgrade process: first a minimal upgrade to overcome these conflicts, then a full upgrade as described in Section 4.4.5, “Upgrading the system”.

https://www.debian.org/releases/bullsey … ng.en.html

Sector11 · 2022-11-17 21:15:51

@rbh My OOPS! I missed on the apt-get, but note that I do use "apt" not apt-get.

unklar · 2022-11-18 11:17:35

Hello, my good friend!
I am very pleased to read you here again.

You don't really need to apologize to anyone. Both apt and apt-get commands are still valid.
You just need to open 2 terminals/consoles and type apt in one and apt-get in the other to see the differences.

Here are also two links that explain it well:
https://itsfoss.com/apt-vs-apt-get-difference/
https://phoenixnap.com/kb/apt-vs-apt-get

Unfortunately responsible people don't want to or can't understand this when it comes to 'upgrading the existing lithium to the new beryllium':

full-upgrade/dist-upgrade works just like upgrade, except that it removes a package already installed on the system when the system upgrade requires it. The normal upgrade command, on the other hand, does not do this.

Therefore, is second command,

apt[-get] upgrade

as I said, is nonsense in this context.

Last edited by unklar (2022-11-18 11:30:37)

el_koraco · 2022-11-18 11:42:58

unklar wrote:

Unfortunately responsible people don't want to or can't understand this when it comes to 'upgrading the existing lithium to the new beryllium':
full-upgrade/dist-upgrade works just like upgrade, except that it removes a package already installed on the system when the system upgrade requires it. The normal upgrade command, on the other hand, does not do this.
Therefore, is second command,
 apt[-get] upgrade
as I said, is nonsense in this context. https://i.imgur.com/LqCF3os.png

Bullseye release notes recommend to do

# apt upgrade --without-new-pkgs

as a "minimal upgrade" before running full-upgrade. It is unnecessary in most use cases, but it can't hurt either. Personally I run

# apt full-upgrade -d

to only download the packages, then drop to tty, kill X and continue the upgrade from there. It would probably be even more advantageous to drop to tty, and run

# systemctl isolate rescue.target

to be super sure. I have never had a Debian upgrade mess anything up ever, so this is all academic really.

Last edited by el_koraco (2022-11-18 11:43:15)

hhh · 2022-11-18 20:09:13

el_koraco wrote:

I have never had a Debian upgrade mess anything up ever, so this is all academic really.

Indeed. The whole "dropping to tty" was for graphics drivers which could cause X to fatally crash back in the day, if I recall correctly. That said, siduction (formerly aptosid, and sidux way back when), which is based on Debian unstable (sid), still recommends dropping to tty and then to init 3 for dist-upgrades and more. See their "A small APT cookbook", it's full of great, very trustworthy information...

https://manual.siduction.org/sys-admin-apt_en.html

To drop to root in a terminal or tty in BunsenLabs/MX Linux/Ubuntu and other systems that disable root by default, I believe we decided here that running "sudo -i" (without quotes) was sufficient. Use "exit" to return to the user account.

Sector11 · 2022-11-19 16:12:26

unklar wrote:

Hello, my good friend!
I am very pleased to read you here again. https://i.imgur.com/Jq9QN6O.png

Hi buddy ...
Guess I should not talk about dpkg or aptitude either huh.

I use dpkg quite often these days after downloading .deb files.

jeffreyC · 2022-11-19 17:39:50

Sector11 wrote:

unklar wrote:
Hello, my good friend!
I am very pleased to read you here again. https://i.imgur.com/Jq9QN6O.png
Hi buddy ...
Guess I should not talk about dpkg or aptitude either huh.
I use dpkg quite often these days after downloading .deb files.

If you switch to using apt for that it will handle dependencies better.

Sector11 · 2022-11-19 17:44:55

jeffreyC wrote:

If you switch to using apt for that it will handle dependencies better.

Yes, I know that too:

sudo apt install /path/to/name.deb

is another thing I do.

absolute path required

el_koraco · 2022-11-19 20:24:27

hhh wrote:

el_koraco wrote:
I have never had a Debian upgrade mess anything up ever, so this is all academic really.
Indeed. The whole "dropping to tty" was for graphics drivers which could cause X to fatally crash back in the day, if I recall correctly. That said, siduction (formerly aptosid, and sidux way back when), which is based on Debian unstable (sid), still recommends dropping to tty and then to init 3 for dist-upgrades and more. See their "A small APT cookbook", it's full of great, very trustworthy information...
https://manual.siduction.org/sys-admin-apt_en.html
To drop to root in a terminal or tty in BunsenLabs/MX Linux/Ubuntu and other systems that disable root by default, I believe we decided here that running "sudo -i" (without quotes) was sufficient. Use "exit" to return to the user account.

I got the siduction manual downloaded to my HD. Invaluable resource. Man, back in the day when we didn't have nmtui or iwd, aptosid's ceni was the bomb.

I can't double check now, but if you run a sudo systemctl isolate rescue.target (init3), you will get a root shell even if the root account is locked. Try it and get back to us. systemctl isolate graphical.target will get you back to the GUI.

#61 2022-11-03 22:13:01

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#62 2022-11-14 06:30:33

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#63 2022-11-14 22:43:57

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#64 2022-11-15 05:49:20

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#65 2022-11-16 11:44:34

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#66 2022-11-16 16:21:01

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#67 2022-11-17 00:15:11

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#68 2022-11-17 10:16:57

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#69 2022-11-17 13:58:00

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#70 2022-11-17 14:25:49

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#71 2022-11-17 16:40:08

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#72 2022-11-17 16:59:20

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#73 2022-11-17 21:15:51

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#74 2022-11-18 11:17:35

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#75 2022-11-18 11:42:58

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#76 2022-11-18 20:09:13

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#77 2022-11-19 16:12:26

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#78 2022-11-19 17:39:50

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#79 2022-11-19 17:44:55

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

#80 2022-11-19 20:24:27

Re: Beryllium beta iso available for testing

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