When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-04-13 18:49:43

justme wrote:

Actually there is one software like you described, it backs up the system, not focusing specifically on data, and with a GUI, it's called TimeShift:

Seems to mimic Windows "System Restore" reasonably well. Would count as the answer if that's what I was seeking a replacement for, unfortunately, it's "Windows Image Backup" I'm missing something to replace.

justme wrote:

PS:
BTW I remember looking at ReaR few years ago <...> "why this isn't a REAL thing ?" ...

ReaR seems to have the potential to be the answer to the issue, or at least part of it.
What makes the solution easy for Windows is VSS being available in every install which makes it easy to back up the filesystem in a crash-consistent manner. ReaR lacks any such convenience being available in Linux.

As it is, ReaR simply (by default) tars up the live running system, or optionally uses rsync.. even that would possibly be "good enough" if I could get rear to actually a run a backup in single-user mode. It seems to want networking even when backing up to USB storage. Not given up on that yet.

I'd need to modify it to use snapshhots or something more sophisticated than tar in rescue mode. I haven't looked at the source, but it's apparently all bash/shell script(s). I may end up there yet.

rbh wrote:

"Clonezilla saves and restores only used blocks in the hard disk."

*Unless you choose encrypted LVM in Debian installer.
Then it treats the entire encrypted partition as an unknown filesystem, & falls back to dd, that's the entire disk minus /boot which is consequently both very slow & a huge use of storage.
No good dropping to a command-line & unlocking the encryption either.

I'ts not like I've never used Clonezilla, lots of people expect the same to happen with a LUKS/LVM setup as their experience tells them does with a default or even LVM install without encryption.

If you ever have hours to waste try it on an encrypted install, but don't be surprised when it takes ages & your image is the size of the drive.

justme · 2022-04-13 21:27:19

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

justme wrote:
Actually there is one software like you described, it backs up the system, not focusing specifically on data, and with a GUI, it's called TimeShift:
Seems to mimic Windows "System Restore" reasonably well. Would count as the answer if that's what I was seeking a replacement for, unfortunately, it's "Windows Image Backup" I'm missing something to replace.

Okay I did not understand it that way, in that case I am not aware of any working solution under Linux other than the one you mentioned(ReaR) which I totally forget about it until I read this thread.
Sorry I can't help you more than that.
Is it for your job or for a personal use, just want to understand why you need that particular type of backup and nothing else.

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-04-13 22:33:37

justme wrote:

... just want to understand why you need that particular type of backup and nothing else

I have a number of family who's machines won't support Win 11, who won't be able to afford new PCs, & am likely to end up installing Linux for & being (continuing to be) the "tech guy".

I also know, from long bitter experience, that if their backups require any manual intervention to keep current, it won't happen. Then there's tears before bedtime, & "Well I did tell you you needed to back up manually" is an unpopular answer. Nor does the experience teach them. They just lose everything repeatedly, & I'm unpopular (also repeatedly) because I can't work magic.

Lesson thoroughly learned way back in the days of W98 & Norton Ghost.
"All you need to do is put this in, reboot, click here, here & here.. & here's a printed & laminated sheet showing how." ... Never happens. Hence why I'm really unimpressed with Clonezilla as a solution.. I'll apply it for my own machines if needed. I'll also keep it current enough on my own machines.

Those family will NOT. Then I'll be the bad guy & I'll get blamed for offering the solution they could afford.

Scheduled tasks do happen, & because their current OS does that type of backup I have current backups to restore when their machines break, or they break them.

So I might as well learn some process that would work for them on my personal machine now. I need to be thoroughly versed in how to keep zero-intervention backups current by the time it's needed & end of Windows 10 support is only 2025, which time will pass amazingly quickly.

Which is why only full machine backups you don't need to futz with on an ongoing basis will do. I remember the pain of fairly regular full OS reinstalls & whinging by them about lost data. When they broke their systems & they were the ones who didn't do a simple backup regularly. I don't want to go back to that task being handed to me. Linux may be more reliable than W98 was, but in the hands of a complete n00b, maybe not so much.

And that, dear friends, is why I'm being so picky.. I'm looking for a bullet-proof solution for complete noobs, not just for myself.

deleted0 · 2022-04-13 22:40:03

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

I also know, from long bitter experience, that if their backups require any manual intervention to keep current, it won't happen. Then there's tears before bedtime, & "Well I did tell you you needed to back up manually" is an unpopular answer. Nor does the experience teach them. They just lose everything repeatedly, & I'm unpopular (also repeatedly) because I can't work magic.

+1

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-04-15 05:20:54

Well it seems since ReaR is broken (won't support LUKS v 2 in the version from Debian, won't even boot rescue in the version from git, & the Debian version crashes within seconds of attempting a restore even without encryption) that means ReaR is out of the picture until after the next stable release or some commit on github (minimum), assuming the next release/commit actually works.

So i seems I'm back to pre Y2K & booting a live image to back up if I encrypt the laptop as is really basic minimum security.

That means Clonezilla or PING, or DD from the live BL session if I use native Linux tools.. unless I'm missing something. In terms of actual performance in that situation & block cloning the entire encrypted volume, & ignoring open vs closed source software.. It's actually faster to boot Windows PE & use the proprietary software I use for Windows imaging than anything Linux has to offer, given it does only occupied sectors for ext & block clone for anything else but FASTER.

So... the Winner to back up an encrypted Linux laptop.. is Windows PE & the Windows program Macrium Reflect.

The PE/RE for which can even be dropped in a tiny DVD size partition & picked up automatically by GRUB for convenience & booted from the grub menu.

Linux is actually GREAT.. Apart from backups.. For those it really & truly SUCKS!

Windows && Windows software FTW again when it comes to backup / imaging. Not the first time I've bitched about it.. undoubtedly not the last either. Convenient backup & disaster recovery is the one thing (in my opinion) making Linux unsuited to mass use. It's not HARDER than windows in any other respect.. just DIFFERENT.

It needs a kernel module built in to distros by default which offers the equivalent of Volume Shadow Copies in Windows.

johnraff · 2022-04-15 05:40:24

Just a thought - does the laptop encryption have to be locked up when you back it up?
I have a LUKS/LVM laptop and I have a script that - when the laptop is running - makes LVM snapshots of whatever volumes and fsarchivers them to an external drive. Seems to work OK. I don't use rysync there because the data is mostly cloned from my desktop anyway, but see no reason that wouldn't work too.

Then of course you can LUKS encrypt the external drive you backup to - it needn't be the same passphrase the laptop itself uses, right?

ohnonot · 2022-04-15 09:03:19

Linux user's constant lament: too much choice!

#21 2022-04-13 18:49:43

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#22 2022-04-13 21:27:19

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#23 2022-04-13 22:33:37

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#24 2022-04-13 22:40:03

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#25 2022-04-15 05:20:54

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#26 2022-04-15 05:40:24

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#27 2022-04-15 09:03:19

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

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