When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-04-12 00:14:06

Why can't there be ONE SINGLE simple tool anywhere that makes a consistent disaster recovery backup of a running system?

Windows has dozens.. Even has one built in since Vista.. Third party solutions since Win 2000.

I guess there's ReaR & LVM snapshots.. but you need a degree in bash scripting to make that work.. Plus space in your vg which the Debian installer doesn't leave by default. It certainly doesn't qualify as "simple".

I probably will make it work since my Core i7 laptop won't run any supported Windows version.. but gawd what a nightmare backing up Linux for disaster recovery such as a failed hard drive is.

Before anyone says "Clonezilla" booting to make backups & preventing using your machine during the process went out with Windows 98 & Norton Ghost.

Such basic functionality should be point & click & installed by default so users actually do backups.

/rant

Last edited by Bearded_Blunder (2022-04-12 17:59:54)

DeepDayze · 2022-04-12 00:47:19

Luckybackup comes to mind as a GUI based backup utility

PackRat · 2022-04-12 01:43:55

fsarchiver - I know a couple people that swear by it.

kozimodo · 2022-04-12 01:54:40

Borgbackup

johnraff · 2022-04-12 02:21:13

rsync for frequent mirroring of the data - I do one of my ssd system to the hdd pretty much every shutdown, considering the sudden-death factor with ssd's. It's only a diff so goes in a few seconds a minute. Then less frequent rsync of everything to a removable secondary hard disk.

And yes fsarchiver is good for recreating a whole partition. Last time I needed it, it did a fine job with no effort on my part. Then you can get the data up to date from one of those rsync backups.

But it's not yet perfect - I need to do some backups of files in those rsync mirrors that were deleted. I don't want the mirror to get clogged up with obsolete files so use one of rsync's delete options. That leaves files that were unintentionally deleted - it will be nice to have copies of them at hand too, in a controlled way... Ongoing project.

Last edited by johnraff (2022-04-13 04:20:45)

Sector11 · 2022-04-12 12:10:07

I use rysinc to an external HHD
backup ~/ to:
/media/sector11/disk/S11-Apr
/media/sector11/disk/S11-Feb
/media/sector11/disk/S11-Mar

I keep 3 to 5 months back.

and my data partitions:
/media/sector11/disk/M5
/media/sector11/disk/M10
/media/sector11/disk/M11
/media/sector11/disk/M12

Reinstall the OS if needed and copy my files back in place.
No SSDs here all hard metal.

And I have a bash script that installed all my files from the repos if needed.

PackRat · 2022-04-12 14:51:00

johnraff wrote:

rsync for frequent mirroring of the data - I do one of my ssd system to the hdd pretty much every shutdown, considering the sudden-death factor with ssd's. It's only a diff so goes in a few seconds. Then less frequent rsync of everything to a removable secondary hard disk.

I use rsync the same way. There used to be a gui - grsync or something like that. But I think that project was abandoned.

Last edited by PackRat (2022-04-12 16:10:47)

DeepDayze · 2022-04-12 15:13:40

PackRat wrote:

johnraff wrote:
rsync for frequent mirroring of the data - I do one of my ssd system to the hdd pretty much every shutdown, considering the sudden-death factor with ssd's. It's only a diff so goes in a few seconds. Then less frequent rsync of everything to a removable secondary hard disk.
I use rsync the same way. There use to be a gui - grsync or something like that. But I think that project was abandoned.

Grsync still works and even if it's abandoned it's pretty usable still.

PackRat · 2022-04-12 16:12:55

DeepDayze wrote:

PackRat wrote:
johnraff wrote:
rsync for frequent mirroring of the data - I do one of my ssd system to the hdd pretty much every shutdown, considering the sudden-death factor with ssd's. It's only a diff so goes in a few seconds. Then less frequent rsync of everything to a removable secondary hard disk.
I use rsync the same way. There use to be a gui - grsync or something like that. But I think that project was abandoned.
Grsync still works and even if it's abandoned it's pretty usable still.

Is it still in Debian repos?

rbh · 2022-04-12 16:15:39

PackRat wrote:

There use to be a gui - grsync or something like that. But I think that project was abandoned.

Nope, grsync is alive: http://www.opbyte.it/grsync. Last update 2020.11, was a upgrade to gtk3.

I dont bother about all files on computer. I use Syncthing https://syncthing.net/ to sync only some directories. (To make sure those directories/files is avaialble on configured computers)
Some directories on the server is manualy backed up with rsync, to external hd. Just create a script and run it every week.

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-04-12 17:53:06

fsarchiver is probably where I'm headed, combined with a preseed file for the (re)install for the purposes of getting the duplicated lvm/luks setup if the drive has to be replaced.

I'd like to use ReaR for it's ability to recreate a disk layout, but the version in Debian (even Sid) only supports LUKS v 1 Bullseye uses LUKS 2.

The version right now in git master should support LUKS 2 since the issue asking for it to be added was closed as fixed.. Playing with that now. Ok that's broken (Deliberately? Back-handers?) for getting a consistent backup using snapshots unless you buy EXPENSIVE enterprise closed source software in addition.

Just tar up or rsync a live filesystem & hope? I don't think so.

This is SOOOOO like trying to find a workable solution for Windows 98 or NT4 it's unreal.. there wasn't one for those & really is NOT one for Linux even more than 2 decades after Windows got reasonably priced commercial ones. Mac users have had time machine for a long while too.
Linux? Tough luck... Just personal files backups, not SYSTEM ones.

Manually reinstall.. manually find & configure everything again, then restore personal data is really the best on offer?

Or taking the system offline for many hours to dd the disk to a file.. Norton Ghost for DOS anyone?

Is Linux truly a pre Y2k world for SYSTEM backup? Sure seems like it to me.

deleted0 · 2022-04-12 18:07:29

All this good discussion about ←↑ got me motivated.

Clonezilla; 20 min start to finish.

Cloned drives, tested and safely stored off line.

YMMV

edit: 30 min with a file copy to a spare drive for data.

Last edited by deleted0 (2022-04-12 18:23:02)

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-04-12 18:12:01

eight.bit.al wrote:

All this good discussion about ←↑ got me motivated.
Clonezilla; 20 min start to finish.
Cloned drives, tested and safely stored off line.
YMMV

Now try with the disk encrypted & consequently 1TB to back up. Cause CZ throws it's metaphorical hands in the air & does a dumb copy of every sector when it is. Ain't going to be 20 minutes.

deleted0 · 2022-04-12 18:24:13

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

eight.bit.al wrote:
YMMV
Now try with the disk encrypted & consequently 1TB to back up. Cause CZ throws it's metaphorical hands in the air & does a dumb copy of every sector when it is. Ain't going to be 20 minutes.

DeepDayze · 2022-04-12 18:31:31

PackRat wrote:

DeepDayze wrote:
PackRat wrote:
I use rsync the same way. There use to be a gui - grsync or something like that. But I think that project was abandoned.
Grsync still works and even if it's abandoned it's pretty usable still.
Is it still in Debian repos?

Yes it is.

For Bullseye: https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/grsync
For those still using Lithium (Buster): https://packages.debian.org/buster/grsync

Last edited by DeepDayze (2022-04-12 18:33:04)

rbh · 2022-04-12 22:15:36

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

eight.bit.al wrote:
All this good discussion about ←↑ got me motivated.
Clonezilla; 20 min start to finish.
Cloned drives, tested and safely stored off line.
YMMV
Now try with the disk encrypted & consequently 1TB to back up. Cause CZ throws it's metaphorical hands in the air & does a dumb copy of every sector when it is. Ain't going to be 20 minutes.

I think it is a good idea to keep "Data" in separate partition than "System". If you want to do a "Bare metall backup", CloneZilla is no bad choise: "Clonezilla saves and restores only used blocks in the hard disk." https://clonezilla.org

deleted0 · 2022-04-12 23:29:07

^ What rbh said. Data in a separate partition.

BTW; I file copy the current project to a couple of thumb drives regularly; every hour or two; in a series of time stamped dirs. The OS and long term data that doesn't change much (and the current project) get cloned to a series of rotated drives whenever the feeling moves me.

Last edited by deleted0 (2022-04-12 23:40:34)

johnraff · 2022-04-13 04:33:57

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

Just tar up or rsync a live filesystem & hope? I don't think so.

Your system is on LVM right?
Then make a temporary LVM snapshot and backup (rsync or fsarchiver) from that. It will be frozen so your backup will be consistent, and you can go on using the machine while the backup's happening. A new snapshot takes up very little extra space. Delete it when your done.

eight.bit.al wrote:

What rbh said. Data in a separate partition.

This. Really simplifies things.

jeffreyC · 2022-04-13 05:31:30

MX Linux has a snapshot tool that you can use to make an ISO of your current system.
Do that and backup your personal files then all you lose is whatever changed since your last backup.

justme · 2022-04-13 13:52:55

@Bearded_Blunder

Hi,

Actually there is one software like you described, it backs up the system, not focusing specifically on data, and with a GUI, it's called TimeShift:
https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift

I feel you mate, all the problems you pointed out are real and true, I had the same thoughts about it few years ago. Not one really solid solution under Linux exist for this task, one part of this issue is because no one cares because Linux user accepted the situation long time ago, and today with all the existing backup tools everyone learned how deal with it.
It leads us to the main Linux issue, if it's really one, Linux doesn't target casual users but advanced ones, and your question tends to proves that it is a fact. If you actually use Linux that because you did some research on it or someone among your relatives installed it for you, either way it requires some knowledge. I guess devs don't want to bother with this, because for them it's not a problem.

Plus nowadays, with the attraction for the use of file system like BTRFS or ZFS, (or even the prototype distro Fedora SilverBlue) this isn't an issue anymore.
And if it's not that well you've seen it, everyone has his own solution: rsnapshot, rsync, borg, restic, tar, fsarchiver, clonezilla, time-machine(bash script), etc ... it's endless.
That proves one thing, Linux users adapted to this very well, even if I agree with you that a real software maintained by RedHat or else should have been implemented in Linux long time ago.

PS:
BTW I remember looking at ReaR few years ago, and few questions came into my mind like "hmm ... why nobody talk about this tool ?" or "why this isn't a REAL thing ?" and then I switched my mind back to tar and fsarchiver because it was way more real than ReaR itself.

EDIT:
Found this for the time-machine lovers, you don't have to master bash, job is done for you already:
https://github.com/cytopia/linux-timemachine

Last edited by justme (2022-04-13 14:01:01)

#1 2022-04-12 00:14:06

When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#2 2022-04-12 00:47:19

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#3 2022-04-12 01:43:55

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#4 2022-04-12 01:54:40

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#5 2022-04-12 02:21:13

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#6 2022-04-12 12:10:07

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#7 2022-04-12 14:51:00

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#8 2022-04-12 15:13:40

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#9 2022-04-12 16:12:55

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#10 2022-04-12 16:15:39

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#11 2022-04-12 17:53:06

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#12 2022-04-12 18:07:29

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#13 2022-04-12 18:12:01

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#14 2022-04-12 18:24:13

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#15 2022-04-12 18:31:31

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#16 2022-04-12 22:15:36

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#17 2022-04-12 23:29:07

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#18 2022-04-13 04:33:57

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#19 2022-04-13 05:31:30

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

#20 2022-04-13 13:52:55

Re: When it comes to (system) backups I @#$%^&! HATE Linux.

Board footer