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#1576 2021-11-21 12:10:08

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 79

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

DeepDayze wrote:
PackRat wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

Soon Debian and other distros will follow suit to make Pipewire the default and do away with PA completely.

I just switched to pipewire in Void. So far so good; although, not like I have a sophisticated sound system hooked up or do much sound/video editing.

So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...

Researching this, as far as I can tell you really need a newer pipewire than the package in stable.
Whether you can just grab the one from testing without problems or would be better off backporting it I don't know.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

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#1577 2021-11-21 15:38:41

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,391

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

jeffreyC wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:
PackRat wrote:

I just switched to pipewire in Void. So far so good; although, not like I have a sophisticated sound system hooked up or do much sound/video editing.

So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...

Researching this, as far as I can tell you really need a newer pipewire than the package in stable.
Whether you can just grab the one from testing without problems or would be better off backporting it I don't know.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

Yes I see that and Void Linux has a pretty new PW package, as @PackRat converted his PA setup to a complete PW one. Debian has a ways to go I can tell, but Sid has a fairly recent release.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2021-11-21 15:39:19)


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#1578 2021-11-21 16:21:43

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,497

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

DeepDayze wrote:
jeffreyC wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...

Researching this, as far as I can tell you really need a newer pipewire than the package in stable.
Whether you can just grab the one from testing without problems or would be better off backporting it I don't know.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

Yes I see that and Void Linux has a pretty new PW package, as @PackRat converted his PA setup to a complete PW one. Debian has a ways to go I can tell, but Sid has a fairly recent release.

I'm running pipewire with alsa integration as per the Void handbook.. Always had better sound with alsa.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#1579 2021-11-21 16:56:17

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,613

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^^I can't for the life of me see where Debian is "behind" in terms of pipewire here.  tongue

pacman -Qi pipewire
Name                     : pipewire
Version                  : 1:0.3.40-1
Beschreibung             : Low-latency audio/video router and processor
Architektur              : x86_64
URL                      : https://pipewire.org
Lizenzen                 : MIT  LGPL
Gruppen                  : Nichts
Stellt bereit            : libpipewire-0.3.so=0-64
Hängt ab von             : rtkit  alsa-card-profiles  libdbus-1.so=3-64  libncursesw.so=6-64
                           libsndfile.so=1-64  libudev.so=1-64  libusb-1.0.so=0-64  libasound.so=2-64
                           libsystemd.so=0-64  libbluetooth.so=3-64  libsbc.so=1-64  libldacBT_enc.so=2-64
                           libfreeaptx.so=0-64  libfdk-aac.so=2-64  libwebrtc_audio_processing.so=1-64
Optionale Abhängigkeiten : pipewire-docs: Documentation
                           pipewire-session-manager: Session manager [Installiert]
                           pipewire-alsa: ALSA configuration
                           pipewire-jack: JACK support
                           pipewire-pulse: PulseAudio replacement
                           gst-plugin-pipewire: GStreamer plugin
                           pipewire-zeroconf: Zeroconf support
                           pipewire-v4l2: V4L2 interceptor
Benötigt von             : pipewire-media-session
Optional für             : qmmp  sdl2
In Konflikt mit          : Nichts
Ersetzt                  : Nichts
Installationsgröße       : 7,36 MiB
Packer                   : David Runge <dvzrv@archlinux.org>
Erstellt am              : Do 11 Nov 2021 17:21:35 CET
Installiert am           : Fr 12 Nov 2021 11:29:41 CET
Installationsgrund       : Installiert als Abhängigkeit eines anderen Pakets
Installations-Skript     : Ja
Verifiziert durch        : Signatur
pipewire (0.3.40-1) unstable; urgency=medium

  * Team upload.
  * New upstream release
  * Drop patches included in upstream release:
     - fix_compilation_on_armel.patch
     - fix_compilation_on_some_architectures.patch
     - make_insert_at()_fail_on_a_removed_item.patch
     - fix_type_for_big_endian.patch
     - only_run_SSE_when_supported.patch
  * Install a new manpage for pipewire-pulse
  * Update symbols file

 -- Dylan Aïssi <daissi@debian.org>  Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:08:23 +0100

If I'm not mistaken you can already install pipewire in buster/bullseye. Only the packages are called differently there.

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#1580 2021-11-21 22:40:05

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,505
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I've been using Pipewire, it's installed by default on Bullseye Xfce4. I use audacity and ardour, and everything seems smooth using the default congs (I haven't edited anything). Definitely an improvement over Buster with just PulseAudio.

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#1581 2021-11-22 13:45:58

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,118

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Lirix

https://caesar-rylan.60.nu/lirix/

MaXX Interactive Desktop on Archlinux.

lirix.th.png

8bit


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#1582 2021-11-22 14:54:02

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,391

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

That looks pretty retro cool ^^


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#1583 2021-11-22 15:15:41

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,118

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@ DeepDaze
"MaXX Interactive Desktop is the little brother of the great SGI Desktop on IRIX"

https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/

8bit


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#1584 2021-11-22 15:40:55

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,391

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

eight.bit.al wrote:

@ DeepDaze
"MaXX Interactive Desktop is the little brother of the great SGI Desktop on IRIX"

https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/

8bit

Yes had worked on those, as well as CDE which looks similar, back in the day I supported a manufacturers's UNIX servers (AIX, IRIX, SCO). Fun times back then.


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#1585 2021-11-23 02:05:26

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,429
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

hhh wrote:

I've been using Pipewire, it's installed by default on Bullseye Xfce4. I use audacity and ardour, and everything seems smooth using the default congs (I haven't edited anything). Definitely an improvement over Buster with just PulseAudio.

What has improved, specifically?


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#1586 2021-11-23 03:35:49

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 79

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

unklar wrote:

^^I can't for the life of me see where Debian is "behind" in terms of pipewire here.  tongue

pacman -Qi pipewire
Name                     : pipewire
Version                  : 1:0.3.40-1
Beschreibung             : Low-latency audio/video router and processor
Architektur              : x86_64
URL                      : https://pipewire.org
Lizenzen                 : MIT  LGPL
Gruppen                  : Nichts
Stellt bereit            : libpipewire-0.3.so=0-64
Hängt ab von             : rtkit  alsa-card-profiles  libdbus-1.so=3-64  libncursesw.so=6-64
                           libsndfile.so=1-64  libudev.so=1-64  libusb-1.0.so=0-64  libasound.so=2-64
                           libsystemd.so=0-64  libbluetooth.so=3-64  libsbc.so=1-64  libldacBT_enc.so=2-64
                           libfreeaptx.so=0-64  libfdk-aac.so=2-64  libwebrtc_audio_processing.so=1-64
Optionale Abhängigkeiten : pipewire-docs: Documentation
                           pipewire-session-manager: Session manager [Installiert]
                           pipewire-alsa: ALSA configuration
                           pipewire-jack: JACK support
                           pipewire-pulse: PulseAudio replacement
                           gst-plugin-pipewire: GStreamer plugin
                           pipewire-zeroconf: Zeroconf support
                           pipewire-v4l2: V4L2 interceptor
Benötigt von             : pipewire-media-session
Optional für             : qmmp  sdl2
In Konflikt mit          : Nichts
Ersetzt                  : Nichts
Installationsgröße       : 7,36 MiB
Packer                   : David Runge <dvzrv@archlinux.org>
Erstellt am              : Do 11 Nov 2021 17:21:35 CET
Installiert am           : Fr 12 Nov 2021 11:29:41 CET
Installationsgrund       : Installiert als Abhängigkeit eines anderen Pakets
Installations-Skript     : Ja
Verifiziert durch        : Signatur
pipewire (0.3.40-1) unstable; urgency=medium

  * Team upload.
  * New upstream release
  * Drop patches included in upstream release:
     - fix_compilation_on_armel.patch
     - fix_compilation_on_some_architectures.patch
     - make_insert_at()_fail_on_a_removed_item.patch
     - fix_type_for_big_endian.patch
     - only_run_SSE_when_supported.patch
  * Install a new manpage for pipewire-pulse
  * Update symbols file

 -- Dylan Aïssi <daissi@debian.org>  Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:08:23 +0100

If I'm not mistaken you can already install pipewire in buster/bullseye. Only the packages are called differently there.


Try looking in Debian Stable, it is pipewire 0.3.19-4 which is quite a few releases behind.
Bunsenlabs is based on Debian Stable, not unstable.

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#1587 2021-11-23 09:01:17

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,613

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^^I hope you also noted in your full quotes that you are constantly comparing "arch-based distros" to Debian stable here.

The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

That's like me comparing apples with oranges.
"Stable" is not a "rolling release".

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#1588 2021-11-23 13:34:48

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,391

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

unklar wrote:

^^I hope you also noted in your full quotes that you are constantly comparing "arch-based distros" to Debian stable here.

The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

That's like me comparing apples with oranges.
"Stable" is not a "rolling release".

Arch and Debian Sid both seem to have the similarities in the package versions (even with different names). Stable usually has packages that are several releases behind (maybe with the exception of those backported).


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#1589 2021-11-23 19:41:57

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,505
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

johnraff wrote:
hhh wrote:

I've been using Pipewire, it's installed by default on Bullseye Xfce4. I use audacity and ardour, and everything seems smooth using the default congs (I haven't edited anything). Definitely an improvement over Buster with just PulseAudio.

What has improved, specifically?

Well, I've just installed ardour and jackd and am trying to configure ardour. lxtask shows that jack, pulse, pipewire and pipewire media session are all running. I can record to ardour from an external USB mic but don't have playback configured right.

So I'm looking at a YouTube video while Ardour us running, and I can hear the YouTube audio without disabling jackd or messing with any configs (very messy and time consuming for me on Buster). This is already a huge plus, and bodes well IMO!

Hmm, I'm talking out of my ass a bit. Pipewire is supposed to fool jack apps into thinking jack is running, jack shouldn't actually be running. I need to do more research.

Audacity now records my mono mic to a mono track, in Buster I had to record to stereo and then split the track to mono, but that might be an Audacity improvement.

Anyway, pipewire isn't hurting anything AFAICT, but isn't necessary for basic audio IMO. Wikipedia says it fixes pulse issues with high CPU useage and with bluetooth, but I haven't had those issues.

-update- I deleted pulseaudio and jackd, rebooted and sound is working just fine (without any additional configs shown in the Debian Wiki). Ardour thinks it's using jack, other devices think they're using alsa, all playing nicely together.

Last edited by hhh (2021-11-24 01:02:44)

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#1590 2021-11-24 10:07:59

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,613

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

hhh wrote:

-update- I deleted pulseaudio and jackd, rebooted and sound is working just fine (without any additional configs shown in the Debian Wiki). Ardour thinks it's using jack, other devices think they're using alsa, all playing nicely together.

^Thank you @hhh for taking the time to do this test. smile

Unfortunately, I didn't clearly understand which system you ran it on.
Here on the current [beryllium] I get:

LANG=C pactl info | grep '^Server Name' 
Server Name: pulseaudio
LANG=C apt policy pipewire pipewire-media-session wireplumber
pipewire:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 0.3.19-4
  Version table:
     0.3.19-4 500
        500 https://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages
N: Unable to locate package pipewire-media-session
N: Unable to locate package wireplumber

I admit that this warning

Debian-Wiki wrote:

Debian 11

As per Simon McVittie, "This is not a supported scenario for Debian 11, and is considered experimental."

It may break certain applications, lack certain functionality, or not work at all.

from the current wiki (2021-11-18) got into my bones, so I preferred to test and run this in siduction.
Complicating matters here was that the pipewire-media-session package was removed once for wireplumber and a few versions of pipewire further on, added back as a standalone package.  big_smile

https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/ … _changelog
https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … ection=all

Last edited by unklar (2021-11-24 10:10:02)

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#1591 2021-11-24 15:17:13

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 385

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Pipewire with Wireplumber is working great on my Arch Linux desktop system. pipewire-media-session is not installed (after it was removed for wireplumber).

Last edited by ratcheer (2021-11-24 15:19:11)

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#1592 2021-11-24 21:43:30

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,505
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@unklar, if you're not trying to do live recordings with low-latency onto your hard drive, stick with pulse. It works just fine.

I am on Bullseye Xfce (and a BL session), if pipewire is not installed and you feel brave...

sudo apt install pipewire && sudo apt purge --autoremove pulseaudio pavucontrol jackd

Reboot and see what happens.

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#1593 2021-11-25 10:40:13

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,613

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^^Thank you, my friend.

I am only, like @PackRat, a modest audio/video user.  smile
So I don't want to "compromise" the bullseye/beryllium unnecessarily.
It's enough for me to have the whole pipewire installation on the safe siduction.

... and, in case anyone is rubbing their eyes now, yes, siduction is an absolutely secure distribution. I already started with it, when it was still called aptosid.   big_smile

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#1594 2021-11-25 19:44:39

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,391

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

unklar wrote:

^^Thank you, my friend.

I am only, like @PackRat, a modest audio/video user.  smile
So I don't want to "compromise" the bullseye/beryllium unnecessarily.
It's enough for me to have the whole pipewire installation on the safe siduction.

... and, in case anyone is rubbing their eyes now, yes, siduction is an absolutely secure distribution. I already started with it, when it was still called aptosid.   big_smile

I've used it back when it was called sidux...


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#1595 2021-11-25 23:35:57

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,505
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

aptosid here, it was my first migration away from Ubuntu (ty @glittersloth for the recommendation, he also recommended #! Many moons ago).

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#1596 2021-11-26 09:54:33

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,613

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

big_smile  big_smile  Old boys!

In the meantime, since I have an installation on bare metal, I had almost forgotten about this one in my VM. That was over 4 months ago now.
Over 500 packages have been updated ...  Everything went well. smile

By the way, the weather actually looks like this in Austria and Germany for weeks.   roll

Screenshot_20211125_200006.th.png   link   Screenshot_20211123_194548.th.png    link

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#1597 2021-11-27 18:47:57

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,118

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Fedora 35

fedora-graphite.th.png

8bit


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#1598 2021-11-27 19:05:34

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,505
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ Ahem. GNOME is looking very pretty! Great theming, al. I love that you went without shadows, it really adds to the look of those window borders against that wallpaper.

Now, let's talk about those bottom borders... You have three that are beautifully rounded, three chopped off at the knees and one that is... transporting up from the planet surface? tongue

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#1599 2021-11-27 20:03:18

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,118

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ I tried the theme on Fedora/Xfce first and it did even worse.  I only installed Workstation to see if it was better on Gnome.  The terminals might be deliberate. Firefox fails. After that, IDC.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-11-27 20:07:29)


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#1600 2021-11-27 20:18:00

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,505
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

eight.bit.al wrote:

After that, IDC.

I don't care. That's the problem with today's youth. tongue

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