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#1 2021-11-10 16:13:37

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 210

will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

I thought this deserved its own topic as my question is
will there ever be a version of bunsenlabs that is non-systemd?

one way this could be achieved is by having a devuan based bunsenlabs.
Since Devuan appear to have a very stable non-systemd distro it
could make sense, plus they have done all the work of de-systemd-ing a distro

I have to admit that's what I have been using a long time now,
but I do miss the whole crunchbang/bunsenlabs way of life

Last edited by THX1138 (2021-11-10 16:14:36)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#2 2021-11-10 17:07:18

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,862

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

Interesting idea.

I was thinking of trying Devuan, but like so many other things lately, it was put on back burner.


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
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#3 2021-11-10 17:19:20

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,345

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

I don't think there is enough interest in that.
BL is built onm standard Debian...
But, you can always install BL-packages in devuan...

Se more in thread: Bunsenlabs on non-systemd Debian (antiX19)

It could be better to install a cli-devuan, add bl-repos and install packages one after the other, that is installable.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#4 2021-11-10 17:32:15

manyroads
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From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 121
Website

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

BL also works well with either antiX and MX (both are available without systemd).  Here's my run at that a while ago.... https://eirenicon.org/2019/10/10/blam-openbox/


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com  Professional Genealogist
dwm & i3wm ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#5 2021-11-10 18:15:58

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 210

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

rbh wrote:

I don't think there is enough interest in that.
BL is built onm standard Debian...
But, you can always install BL-packages in devuan...

Se more in thread: Bunsenlabs on non-systemd Debian (antiX19)

It could be better to install a cli-devuan, add bl-repos and install packages one after the other, that is installable.

To be honest I hadnt thought of that. It sounds like a good idea. I could try that/
In fact that sounds like the way to go

manyroads wrote:

BL also works well with either antiX and MX (both are available without systemd).  Here's my run at that a while ago.... https://eirenicon.org/2019/10/10/blam-openbox/

Thanks. i will read that

Edited in....
ah what a great link
thanks

OK just read the webpage - that's pretty much what I'm doing with Devuan
I think I'm going to look at how to get a genuine bunsenlabs setup with openbox
on a Devuan base - I'll make it my hobby for a while

Last edited by THX1138 (2021-11-10 18:28:07)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#6 2021-11-10 23:57:14

manyroads
Member
From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 121
Website

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

That sounds like a fine idea...

EDIT: you might want to check the miyolinux setup and modify it. (devuan respin for openbox)

Last edited by manyroads (2021-11-10 23:58:28)


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com  Professional Genealogist
dwm & i3wm ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#7 2021-12-03 01:39:11

phil_in_la
Member
Registered: 2017-11-10
Posts: 6

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

Hi guys. I'm currently running some of the lithium repositories with devuan. It's working for the most part, although some of the bugs about the gtk themes keep biting me. I came over here to look up whether there's a boron or beryllium repository to use, I'm currently in chimera.

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#8 2021-12-05 05:28:13

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,594
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Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

^There's an experimental Beryllium repository, and when the iso is made and released there'l be an "official" one too of course.

For now: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=7356


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#9 2022-01-10 00:44:06

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 780

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

I managed it on pure Debian in the early days of Li
Was a right royal PITA to do, but also worked for most of the other pure Debian Buster DEs (Obviously. not Gnome).
LXDE needed tweaking the deps on one package, couple of the others required feeding to apt in stages.

Pretty much everything I tried in Lithium worked at that point though.

In essence (using early Buster) it involved a minimal netinstall
Switching to SysV
Pinning SystemD at -1
Installing most of standard system utils (couple of packages left out).
Faking out libpam-systemd with equivs to use libpam-elogind which equivs was used to pull in as a depend.
Recompiling (with a manual patch) policykit from experimental.. only place with a new enough version (at the time).
Installing our custopm polkit.
Adding the sources for Lithium.
Installing the metapackage.

Then life & family health issues robbed me of the time to complete testing and publish the results & a possible how-to here.
I've not had time to even look at Bullseye.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#10 2022-01-10 01:15:55

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,594
Website

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

^Hello B_B I'm sure everyone here is sorry to hear you've had problems, but it's great to see you back on the forum. Thanks for calliing in!

And I hope things are starting to improve for you.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#11 2022-01-10 03:37:58

hhh
Ol' Pink Eyes
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,746
Website

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

^ Continuing off topic, also good to see you posting!

On topic, we just don't have the resources. We could recruit someone to develop it, but then the Team would have to approve it, @johnraff would have to build a separate (live?) ISO... it just seems like a major pain in the ass when you could install Devuan or one of the other distros that have been popping up that don't use systemd. I just saw one that just used scripts, I can't find it now. I think MX Linux uses sytemd-shim by default, which bypasses systemd. Sort of.


Does your physical disability preclude you from coming to the point?

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#12 2022-01-10 14:03:04

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 780

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

Not sure it can be done as a one-shot install using Debian as a base, if it could you'd have to proper hack at what debootstrap does at the earliest stages of D-I to start off using sysvinit+openrc, which I didn't manage even running debootstrap manually when I tried it with Buster.

Meaning you need to install, switch, then reboot, use apt pinning to block systemd, then you'd also have to futz with tasksel to skip some stuff to get (most of) standard system utilities on..

Then you need to futz with depends in general with an equivs package & a couple of symlinks.

Then someone has to do up a custom compile of policykit-1 in an environment that's already switched (and maintain it), & to do this with bullseye/beryllium you also need to tweak the depends on dbus-user-session to accept elogind as an alternative to systemd.

Do all that stuff manually as a one-off experimental install if you don't mind some update breaking who-knows what & have the time, maybe. Ask someone to maintain such a mess is a way bigger ask.

FWIW I have that mess (Bullseye+Be-Dev) installed & running in a 32 bit VM (VirtualBox), & stuff that needs admin asks for it via polkit without hacks involving graphical front-ends to sudo.  I've not seen anything actually broken, but I also haven't tried much stuff.

Frankly with what's involved it qualifies as a "silly thing" like the other stuff mentioned in "Don't break Debian".


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#13 2022-01-10 14:25:10

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 86

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

Start with either antiX or Devuan, whichever you prefer and add the Bunsenlabs repo.

antiX has net-installer and core isos which could work (core should work with WiFi).

If you really feel experimental antiX-runit has runit set up similar to how Void Linux and Artix have it, not Debian.

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#14 2022-01-11 10:01:25

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 780

Re: will there ever be NON-systemd Bunsenlabs

I ran into some "fun" issues when I started with Devuan, was a fair while back though.

But just to show that with some effort, compiling, & dodgy hacks it can be done on Debian natively..

beardy@Bunsen-Be:~$ sudo inxi -SCMmIxxx
System:
  Host: Bunsen-Be Kernel: 5.10.0-10-686-pae i686 bits: 32 compiler: gcc 
  v: 10.2.1 Desktop: Openbox 3.6.1 info: tint2 dm: LightDM 1.26.0 
  Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) 
Machine:
  Type: Virtualbox System: innotek product: VirtualBox v: 1.2 serial: N/A 
  Chassis: Oracle Corporation type: 1 serial: N/A 
  Mobo: Oracle model: VirtualBox v: 1.2 serial: N/A BIOS: innotek 
  v: VirtualBox date: 12/01/2006 
Memory:
  RAM: total: 999.7 MiB used: 385.4 MiB (38.6%) 
  RAM Report: message: No RAM data was found. 
CPU:
  Info: Single Core model: Intel Core2 Quad Q9650 bits: 32 type: MCP 
  arch: Penryn rev: A L2 cache: 6 MiB 
  flags: nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 ssse3 bogomips: 5999 
  Speed: 3000 MHz min/max: N/A Core speed (MHz): 1: 3000 
Info:
  Processes: 129 Uptime: 17m wakeups: 629 Init: SysVinit v: 2.96 rc: OpenRC 
  v: 0.42 runlevel: default default: 2 Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 alt: 10 
  Packages: apt: 1389 Shell: Bash (sudo) v: 5.1.4 
  running in: x-terminal-emul inxi: 3.3.01 
beardy@Bunsen-Be:~$

If you report any bugs with a setup like this, first question you'll be asked is if you can reproduce it using SystemD, with a high chance it'll get closed & never be looked at if you say no.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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