New ISO build to try.

sleekmason · 2020-10-30 14:25:03

I have completed my Debian build of LXDE + Openbox here:
https://github.com/sleekmason/Lilidog

The Download link for the ISO is here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/lilidog/

The above link has instructions for building your own ISO of Lilidog using Live-build, the official build system for Debian.

While live-build itself can be complicated, getting started with it doesn't need to be. If you follow the instructions, you will get a glance at what goes into building a distro, and the possibility of working on your own system.

Lilidog was built upon the premise of having a solid starting point from which to build your desktop. Any extra scripts are in /usr/local/bin or $HOME.
Full features and screenshot are in the link above.

In any event, I need testers!

Just follow the instructions and let me know how it goes. I think you will like Lilidog as much as I enjoyed making it.

Running live, about 250MB ram or so.
Installed, around 240MB ram.

Installed size = 3.67 GB for /root, and 12 MB for /home.

Enjoy!

Last edited by sleekmason (2022-05-13 11:27:55)

Naik · 2020-11-11 11:00:26

Hey Mason!

I've tried and build it and it is really sleek. (Cheap pun, I know, but I had to!)
Why did you prefer wicd over nm? Is it the dependencies or just personal flavor?

Naik --greetz

sleekmason · 2020-11-11 14:23:30

Glad you like it! Thank you for taking a look.

Naik wrote:

Why did you prefer wicd over nm? Is it the dependencies or just personal flavor?

Just Dependencies:) The base system is not trimmed down as such. I am using the lxde-desktop-task, which brings in all the recommends.

Items can be changed out however, and I need to look at something other than wicd, and then also figure out how to replace. Could be as simple as specifying the package. I added Transmission, and it removed the initial app with the same function.

The Lxde desktop also allows the option to just run Openbox without going through lxde, but I found it to be slightly heavier ram wise without!

So, what I have done is simply replace those items of interest, while keeping the base install. So far so good, but I see changes coming down the line anyway:)

Building a "no recommends" is on my list, but honestly don't see the point yet. They have gotten way better at not adding silly cruft. The only "extra" I can see is the full Libre Office suite instead of just the writer, but then thought maybe others use all of that.

*Edit - yeah, gonna remove a few items.

I am always open to making changes! Love new ideas.
I'll see what I can do about the wicd issue:)

Last edited by sleekmason (2020-11-11 23:05:47)

ohnonot · 2020-11-13 19:07:22

Is wicd going to change to python3 in a future version?

sleekmason · 2020-11-13 22:16:40

I have changed the default to nm-tray from wicd through a couple of workarounds. nm-tray works fine, and is much lighter than wicd. However, whether I keep it or not will depend on a few things getting resolved. (as always, right?)

I ultimately had to start nm-tray with a script, adding a "sleep 20", as there was an issue with it not showing up in the tray even though it showed up automatically in the autostart file after installation.

If I added another instance to the autostart file, it would add two icons. So, I disabled it through autostart, and then triggered nm-tray with a script. horrible workaround I know, but it works:)

This however won't be enough. Wicd is still present on both live and after installation.
This is a bit disheartening, as there were two possibilities laid out by Live-build that should/could have worked.
The first was to use apt pinning to keep wicd from being installed. Okay. Placed:

Package: wicd
Pin: version *
Pin-Priority: -1

in /apt/preferences. The apt pinning worked fine, but the build still failed saying another package was looking for it. I'm assuming this is a problem with the recommends of LXDE.

The other option was to simply uninstall wicd during the installation using the same hook that removes the live-build stuff from the installation. So, I specified after the live -build items:

live-boot
live-config
live-config-systemd
net-tools
orca
python-dbus
python-gi
python-notify
python-wicd
wicd
wicd-gtk
wicd-daemon

in the live.list.chroot located in /config/package-lists. This failed as well . . sort of.
The system still removed the live-build stuff, but none of the programs I specified.

Still a problem with the recommends?

*EDIT - The above list apparently installs those items in live, to then be removed upon installation. So no go. - Building now without recommends.

So, another answer I thought of removing wicd from the system after installation from a "first start script" but this seems really hacky.

I suppose I may have to specify no-recommends and add all the packages back in?

Anyway, for the moment, nm-tray is the default, but the wicd-daemon is still running during the live session and after installation. Easy enough to:

sudo apt purge wicd*

after installation. nm-tray runs a good 30MB lighter than wicd. The only other consideration is the qt colors - But thats the least of it.

Last edited by sleekmason (2020-11-13 23:57:16)

sleekmason · 2020-11-14 05:20:40

Okay, wicd removal problem solved by using --apt-recommends 'false' and adding back most of the packages. Don't know why I didn't do this sooner. nmtray is default now, with wicd removed.

ohnonot · 2020-11-14 06:56:16

sleekmason wrote:

I have changed the default to nm-tray from wicd through a couple of workarounds. nm-tray works fine, and is much lighter than wicd.

This doesn't make very much sense. nm-tray is just a frontend to network-manager, wicd is the whole shebang (a replacement network manager).

sleekmason · 2020-11-14 13:19:45

ohnonot wrote:

sleekmason wrote:
I have changed the default to nm-tray from wicd through a couple of workarounds. nm-tray works fine, and is much lighter than wicd.
This doesn't make very much sense. nm-tray is just a frontend to network-manager, wicd is the whole shebang (a replacement network manager).

Sorry, yes, Should have specified. Was working on the tray icons:) nm-tray is just a front end for network-manager, which is much lighter than wicd in Ram. between 30-40MB

Had no issues switching to network-manager, just couldn't get rid of wicd, nor get the icon for nm-tray to work. All is better now. I removed the recommends and added back the necessary packages. (Still might have a few to add back in). Everything is groovy again.

ohnonot · 2020-11-15 07:03:14

sleekmason wrote:

Sorry, yes, Should have specified. Was working on the tray icons:) nm-tray is just a front end for network-manager, which is much lighter than wicd in Ram. between 30-40MB

Still doesn't make much sense to me, but nevermind.

So you're not using wicd after all?

A wise choice I think; wicd's future is a bit unclear, to put it mildly: last release in 2014, only 2 commits this year on the devel branch... and while python2 might still be around for a while on Debian, other distros are actively getting rid of it.
In other words, unless something changes drastically, wicd will drop from Debian repos, too, at some point...

sleekmason · 2020-11-15 16:13:54

ohnonot wrote:

sleekmason wrote:
Sorry, yes, Should have specified. Was working on the tray icons:) nm-tray is just a front end for network-manager, which is much lighter than wicd in Ram. between 30-40MB
Still doesn't make much sense to me, but nevermind.
So you're not using wicd after all?
A wise choice I think; wicd's future is a bit unclear, to put it mildly: last release in 2014, only 2 commits this year on the devel branch... and while python2 might still be around for a while on Debian, other distros are actively getting rid of it.
In other words, unless something changes drastically, wicd will drop from Debian repos, too, at some point...

Yes, completely removed wicd. I think it was also causing the cpu to race a bit, as it was jumping up at idle. - no longer a problem.

The whole issue was really this;
Live-build allows you to use "tasks" to populate the packages, which makes it extremely easy to build.

using only:

task-lxde-desktop

with no other packages specified, will give you a complete lxde openbox desktop with all the fixings, minus any customization. Yuck.
But, nothing else needed to accomplish basic tasks for everyday use. all done through depends and recommends. Specify a few main packages, and Wham! the whole thing is put together.
I don't necessarily agree with how this works exactly, but this does allow for making a system almost worry free.

Dependencies for task-lxde-desktop shows:

sleekmason@ai:~$ apt depends task-lxde-desktop
task-lxde-desktop
  Depends: tasksel (= 3.53)
  Depends: task-desktop
  Depends: lightdm
  Depends: lxde
  Recommends: lxtask
  Recommends: lxlauncher
  Recommends: xsane
  Recommends: libreoffice-gtk2
  Recommends: synaptic
  Recommends: libreoffice
  Recommends: libreoffice-help-en-us
  Recommends: mythes-en-us
  Recommends: hunspell-en-us
  Recommends: hyphen-en-us
  Recommends: system-config-printer
  Recommends: orca

Okay, and then for lxde:

sleekmason@ai:~$ apt depends lxde
lxde
 |Depends: galculator
  Depends: gnome-calculator
  Depends: gpicview
 |Depends: <leafpad>
  Depends: mousepad
  Depends: lxappearance
  Depends: lxappearance-obconf
  Depends: lxde-core
  Depends: lxde-icon-theme
  Depends: lxhotkey-gtk
  Depends: lxinput
  Depends: lxrandr
  Depends: lxsession-edit
  Depends: lxterminal
  Depends: xarchiver
  Recommends: clipit
 |Recommends: deluge
  Recommends: transmission-gtk
 |Recommends: evince
  Recommends: <pdf-viewer>
    atril
    evince
    gv
    mupdf
    okular
    viewpdf.app
    xpdf
    zathura-pdf-poppler
  Recommends: gnome-disk-utility
 |Recommends: smplayer
 |Recommends: vlc
  Recommends: mplayer-gui
  Recommends: gnome-system-tools
  Recommends: gucharmap
 |Recommends: firefox-esr
 |Recommends: <firefox>
  Recommends: <www-browser>
    chromium
    dillo
    edbrowse
    elinks
    epiphany-browser
    falkon
    firefox-esr
    hv3
    konqueror
    links
    links2
    lynx
    midori
    netrik
    sugar-browse-activity
    surf
    w3m
    xemacs21-mule
    xemacs21-mule-canna-wnn
    xemacs21-nomule
 |Recommends: lightdm
  Recommends: <x-display-manager>
    gdm3
    lightdm
    lxdm
    nodm
    sddm
    slim
    wdm
    xdm
 |Recommends: lxmusic
  Recommends: audacious
  Recommends: lxpolkit
  Recommends: menu-xdg
  Recommends: usermode
 |Recommends: wicd
  Recommends: network-manager-gnome
  Recommends: xserver-xorg
  Suggests: gimp
  Suggests: libreoffice
  Suggests: lxlauncher
  Suggests: lxtask
  Suggests: pidgin
  Suggests: pk-update-icon
  Suggests: xfce4-power-manager

So, within this framework, I'm allowed to change a few items, but only those items otherwise recommended or the build fails.
Network-manager-gnome was the other option available to me, but at this point, It was simply time to get rid of the recommends, and do whatever I felt like.

Easier said than done. They might as well call "recommends" something else for building purposes, because you are stuck within the framework! Recommends become dependencies. ugh.

So, using diff on the package list I created for the system using:

sudo dpkg-query -f '${binary:Package}\n' -W > packages_list.txt

I was able to produce everything necessary for a no-recommends build. and have!
I've now removed not only wicd, but also orca, some of the libreoffice items, and more to come.
It's possible I may still be a package or two short the other direction, but so far so good!

The build before the no recommends change had over 1,500 packages installed. I'm now down to 1,161 installed.
This is done with 148 total packages (currently) now added to the list. I originally had added 50 packages or so to the build for all the extra items I wanted to have.
I'm sure I have a few specified that are covered as dependencies in other packages, but this should be fairly close, and everything is working well:)

Sorry again for any confusion! Sometimes I never know if I'm writing too much or not enough:) I do try to read through as if I was someone else.

Last edited by sleekmason (2020-11-15 18:51:25)

sleekmason · 2020-11-30 01:06:35

This stable build is complete now, having had a bunch of changes over the last month or so.

Fbpanel is now an option. Try it in the live environment by toggling tint2 off first, then toggling fbpanel on. Also, new tint2 buttons for cascade and show desktop, new simple exit menu, more scripts to mess with, and many other improvements large and small.

Anyway, Here is a new version based on the above, but using the very latest kernel and firmware. linux-image-10.0-rc4-amd64 as of today.

In this new version, I will continue with new changes here and there. Adding or removing items as I think they may be useful, improving the installer, etc.. https://github.com/sleekmason/Lilidog-b … tom-kernel

Last edited by sleekmason (2020-12-01 01:53:37)

ohnonot · 2020-11-30 07:33:55

sleekmason wrote:

Fbpanel is now an option.

The perks of using a conservative distro.
fbpanel has not been an option on Archlinux for a long while.
Maybe you can write a GUI script to change application icons as described here

sleekmason · 2020-11-30 20:44:35

ohnonot wrote:

sleekmason wrote:
Fbpanel is now an option.
The perks of using a conservative distro.
fbpanel has not been an option on Archlinux for a long while.
Maybe you can write a GUI script to change application icons as described here

Took me a minute to take this in. and,... Yes! What a neat deal. So, basically a toggle of sorts to allow fbpanel to allocate the icons throughout? So, not only allowing the customization of system icons, but also allowing for icons for new programs without making desktop files for each?

And, by gui to change the icons, do you mean just a zenity/yad button chooser for the toggle?, or to actually give choice of individual icons?

The first I can manage, but the second, not so much I think. The best I could do there would be to open the fbpanel Configuration, with directions or some such.
Anyway, this certainly is an interesting option to have. Any further thoughts on this are very welcome:)

Fb panel used like this runs about 11MB - so, no worries there.

The other todo on my list is to maybe use the fbpanel pager as a separate item as well. I like the Desktop window boxes that show the wallpaper

* FYI For those that just want to "raid the tomb" so to speak, you can download the zip file off my github page, unzip it and look in /config/includes.chroot for anything of interest. You don't have to make the ISO.

For instance, there are three different exit scripts I'm keeping to mess with, and the second dmenu script opens at the top with only the most used apps.
Most of the items I have included are very simple to understand by design.

DeepDayze · 2020-12-01 03:51:20

Bet the BL devs may want to raid your tomb for gems for BL ]:D ]:D

Nice work, seriously...you should be one of the BL devs if you got some time for that

sleekmason · 2020-12-01 15:41:36

DeepDayze wrote:

Bet the BL devs may want to raid your tomb for gems for BL ]:D ]:D
Nice work, seriously...you should be one of the BL devs if you got some time for that

Wow! Thank you

ohnonot · 2020-12-01 18:27:56

sleekmason wrote:

Took me a minute to take this in. and,... Yes! What a neat deal. So, basically a toggle of sorts to allow fbpanel to allocate the icons throughout? So, not only allowing the customization of system icons, but also allowing for icons for new programs without making desktop files for each?
And, by gui to change the icons, do you mean just a zenity/yad button chooser for the toggle?, or to actually give choice of individual icons?

Some programs have icons hardcoded that you cannot change through a different icon theme.
Like the default icons you see when you enable icons on openbox titlebars.
fbpanel has the magical power to change these icons. It's been the only reason I used it, to override a few default icons.
My suggestion for you to write a GUI for that was tongue-in-cheek, really.

hhh · 2020-12-01 18:32:36

DeepDayze wrote:

Bet the BL devs may want to raid your tomb for gems for BL ]:D ]:D
Nice work, seriously...you should be one of the BL devs if you got some time for that

Or maybe ask him nicely if we can raid his tomb for gems he could add an fbpanel commit to BL? Or open a git for his tweaks? Or both?

https://github.com/aanatoly/fbpanel

sleekmason · 2020-12-01 19:18:55

ohnonot wrote:

Some programs have icons hardcoded that you cannot change through a different icon theme.
Like the default icons you see when you enable icons on openbox titlebars.
fbpanel has the magical power to change these icons. It's been the only reason I used it, to override a few default icons.
My suggestion for you to write a GUI for that was tongue-in-cheek, really.

I think it is a neat idea:) I like the idea of a toggle that would just switch them all out to something wild, like the old Buuf Deuce icons, or maybe some other custom set. Make up two or three different ones to try out, and add a link to configure your own.

hhh wrote:

Or maybe ask him nicely if we can raid his tomb for gems he could add an fbpanel commit to BL? Or open a git for his tweaks? Or both?

I will have a git up for individual items hopefully later today :)

Really glad some of this is useful to others. Most of what I've done is simply redo others work for my needs. Most of the original authors are probably members here. Honestly, I feel grateful for the opportunity to share what I've learned and worked on. I respect all of you.

sleekmason · 2020-12-01 23:33:59

Here are the Lilidog configuration files in an easier format to view for those that are interested.
https://github.com/sleekmason/Configuration

ohnonot · 2020-12-02 06:56:34

ohnonot wrote:

The perks of using a conservative distro.
fbpanel has not been an option on Archlinux for a long while.

I just installed it - and it works - from here.
Sorry for the hijack, I'll slink back into my dark corner now.

#1 2020-10-30 14:25:03

New ISO build to try.

#2 2020-11-11 11:00:26

Re: New ISO build to try.

#3 2020-11-11 14:23:30

Re: New ISO build to try.

#4 2020-11-13 19:07:22

Re: New ISO build to try.

#5 2020-11-13 22:16:40

Re: New ISO build to try.

#6 2020-11-14 05:20:40

Re: New ISO build to try.

#7 2020-11-14 06:56:16

Re: New ISO build to try.

#8 2020-11-14 13:19:45

Re: New ISO build to try.

#9 2020-11-15 07:03:14

Re: New ISO build to try.

#10 2020-11-15 16:13:54

Re: New ISO build to try.

#11 2020-11-30 01:06:35

Re: New ISO build to try.

#12 2020-11-30 07:33:55

Re: New ISO build to try.

#13 2020-11-30 20:44:35

Re: New ISO build to try.

#14 2020-12-01 03:51:20

Re: New ISO build to try.

#15 2020-12-01 15:41:36

Re: New ISO build to try.

#16 2020-12-01 18:27:56

Re: New ISO build to try.

#17 2020-12-01 18:32:36

Re: New ISO build to try.

#18 2020-12-01 19:18:55

Re: New ISO build to try.

#19 2020-12-01 23:33:59

Re: New ISO build to try.

#20 2020-12-02 06:56:34

Re: New ISO build to try.

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