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#1 2020-03-25 18:36:44

jjanderson5
Member
Registered: 2016-05-10
Posts: 89

installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

When installing deuterium, I am using a source.list file with the following contents:


deb http://deb.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main contrib non-free

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian jessie main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free

and when I run  "apt update", it gives the following error messages:

...
Ign http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org jessie-backports/main Translation-en
Err http://deb.debian.org jessie-backports/main amd64 Packages
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.250.133 80]
Ign http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org bunsen-hydrogen/main Translation-en_US
Err http://deb.debian.org jessie-backports/contrib amd64 Packages
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.250.133 80]
Ign http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org bunsen-hydrogen/main Translation-en
Err http://deb.debian.org jessie-backports/non-free amd64 Packages
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.250.133 80]
Ign http://deb.debian.org jessie-backports/contrib Translation-en_US
...
...
Ign http://deb.debian.org jessie-backports/non-free Translation-en
Fetched 1,840 B in 5s (311 B/s)
W: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie-backports/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.250.133 80]

W: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie-backports/contrib/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.250.133 80]

W: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie-backports/non-free/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.250.133 80]

E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.

I'm not sure how to interpret these error messages.

Maybe my source.list file references the backports improperly. But, I have had help and I think the 1st line in the sources.list file is correct now.

When I look in the browser for

http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists

I get hit. But on that webpage, jessie-backports does not exist. I suspect that it does not exist because it became obsolete and was removed.

This seems likely, so my first question is: Can I skip looking for backports for jessie?

My 2nd question is: Just what is a backport?

I think the idea of a backport is to port code from a newer Debian release back into an older Debian release, so that older releases can be selectively updated. If this is true, then it makes sense that an aging release, like jessie, does not need a backport since there is no real new work being done on its successor, stretch. Am I on the right track here?

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#2 2020-03-25 19:20:41

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,780

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

Jessie repositories, including jessie-backports, which are now considered oldoldstable and completely EOL, have moved to archive.debian.org, see http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/.

So your entry  should be like

deb http://archive.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main contrib non-free

Per aspera ad astra.

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#3 2020-03-25 19:26:12

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 407

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

Yes, "Backports are packages taken from the next Debian release (called "testing"), adjusted and recompiled for usage on Debian stable." // https://backports.debian.org.

You closed your old thread, without "fullfilling" it...

I asked you what you are trying to accomplish. You dissmissed it with "but I have reasons looking back. It is a trade off for me, but one I am willing to make."

There will be some month of continuing security updates. But, after June, you realy should not use jessie.

If you describe your goal, instead of asking how to solve a questionable path, it might be possible to help you better...


// Regards rbh

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#4 2020-03-26 23:48:21

jjanderson5
Member
Registered: 2016-05-10
Posts: 89

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

@twoion

Thank you for the update. I will take a look.

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#5 2020-03-27 01:23:56

jjanderson5
Member
Registered: 2016-05-10
Posts: 89

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

@rbh

Bear with me, please, as I try to explain. Yes, I tried to do a tap dance around your question. I will give my real answer below, but I want to pre-qualify my answer by explaining that I understand those who contribute to the Bunsenlabs release work hard and mean well. I truly appreciate the work they have contributed. Just because I am not satisfied with their product, does not mean it is not a good product for others. My answer may be insulting to them and that is why I tried to avoid answering your question directly. Rather than take my response as an insult, I hope any of them that may see this will take my response as constructive criticism.

The answer to your question follows.

To me, the crunchbang distribution was a wonderful distribution. It met my needs very well. It was a distribution that supported openbox and maintained a minimal kernel image. I am a software developer and my needs included good support for c, c++, java, python. The black and white, minimal display of crunchbang was just fine with me. What was important was that the distro performed consistently across all my platforms, including my older "historic" PCs.

Looking back, I can almost cry, that crunchbang went off line. BunsenLabs picked up the ball, which was great. I had little or no issues with the first one or two releases. But I found that as time went on, new features were added. These features were of no benefit to me, but along with the new features came new bugs - more and more. I got to the point where I will not use the new releases of BL. Just too many damn bugs!!!!

So what to do?

I recommend that the BL developers start a QA program. I wish I could help get them get started, but I cannot. I am too involved in my own software development.

One of the first things a QA program would do is Alpha and Beta test each of the releases before releasing it. I may be wrong, but I would bet this process is not in place at BL. My impression is that the process is that a collective decision is made to make changes, the changes are made, and then a release is made without a reasonable testing period. Is there a QA group to run rigorous tests?

As for my self, I am searching for an O/S on which to base my development. My needs are:
1) openbox support so that I can multi-task across multiple desktops 2) support for 32-bit PCs 3) small kernel images so that kernel can be run on my laptops with small memory 4) full programming support for C/C++, java and python development 5) a working version of firefox and thunderbird 6) support for PCs with up to 8 GB of core memory (I think all Linux o/s's support this so it is not really an issue). If I have these, I am a happy camper! There are plenty of other programs that I use but all Linux distros have those features so I don't include them here.

I have looked at Arch Linux, which is still a possibility. I am currently looking at crunchbang++. Even though crunchbang++ has a good philosophy, I don't think there is enough of a community there support an on going release process. So for now, I have gone back to Ubuntu. It is a solid distribution with loads of support, but it only partially satisfies my needs. It is not my long term solution.

So, having not yet found a distribution to go forward with, I am looking back at a BL release that was satisfactory. I have installed Hydrogen Deuterium on one of my PCs and so far things look good. Before moving forward (by going backward), I want to make sure that I can get a mirror version of the repositories of both the BunsenLabs Dueterium release and Debian Jessie release  set up. If I can do that, I can probably run that version far into the future. I do run the risk of locking myself into the old O/S. For example, I use the Eclipse IDE extensively in development and may not be able to use it if it dynamically links to C libraries. My workaround is to do 95+% of my work on the old O/S and run one system of up to date Ubuntu where I can run Eclipse when necessary.

Why not run in Ubuntu? I can only guess, but my work efficiency on Crunchbang was a minimum of 10% better than on Ubuntu, and likely 20% to 30% better. That is a big difference for me.

I hope this all makes sense to you. If not feel free to ask questions.

Regards,
Jim

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#6 2020-03-27 06:35:14

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,811
Website

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

Hi Jim, thanks for your feedback which is always welcome!

I would like to respond to a couple of the points you raised because they might be relevant to other users too:

jjanderson5 wrote:

The black and white, minimal display of crunchbang was just fine with me.

It's possible to get close to that on current BL by choosing alternative GTK themes, wallpaper etc. However, the original CrunchBang theme cannot be used as-is with later versions of Debian because of changes in the GTK2 and especially GTK3 libraries.

What was important was that the distro performed consistently across all my platforms, including my older "historic" PCs.

There is no reason why current BunsenLabs itself would be a heavier load than CrunchBang. My old 32bit laptop boots up the current development Lithium release with ~180MB of RAM in use. However, Debian itself changes and generally gets "heavier" with each release. BL is based on Debian stable, and we do not intend to customize the standard Debian kernel, for example, in order to make a minimal Linux distribution. That is not our goal. CrunchBang itself never claimed to be a minimal system, but a "full-featured" setup. There is a further discussion to be had, in fact, on just how far back it is desirable to go in supporting old hardware. Anyway, I think 10 years is quite feasable with BL, probably further with some tweaking.

...along with the new features came new bugs - more and more. I got to the point where I will not use the new releases of BL. Just too many damn bugs!!!!

This is a very important point. We'd dearly love to know about these bugs, and do our best fo fix all that are reported. There is a Bug Reports forum section, and all our GitHub repositories accept issue posts. Of course bugs in essential Debian packages (if there are any) are beyond our control. Sometimes we also have to compromise with choice of default applications between (hopefully) small bugs and features, but users are always able to replace packages they don't like with alternatives. Anyway, please post about some of these bugs that you have found!

I recommend that the BL developers start a QA program.
One of the first things a QA program would do is Alpha and Beta test each of the releases before releasing it. I may be wrong, but I would bet this process is not in place at BL. My impression is that the process is that a collective decision is made to make changes, the changes are made, and then a release is made without a reasonable testing period. Is there a QA group to run rigorous tests?

Now here, with the greatest respect, I think you are making some quite unjustified assumptions. Right now BL Lithium is in what we could describe as the beta stage of testing, and has been for several months. Users can install the development Lithium iso and report on any issues they find. That there have been relatively few could either be that there are few bugs, or that little testing has been done. You may or may not know that the development team is quite small and has outside commitments beyond BL, so depend on help from our users in ironing out issues before the official release. Debian Buster came out last year and we would love to have released Lithium at the same time but real life did not permit. If you would like to try out BL Lithium and report any problems you run into, it would help push forward the release date. smile

I have installed Hydrogen Deuterium on one of my PCs and so far things look good. Before moving forward (by going backward), I want to make sure that I can get a mirror version of the repositories of both the BunsenLabs Dueterium release and Debian Jessie release  set up. If I can do that, I can probably run that version far into the future.

I presume you are already aware of the security issues with such a policy. We can't offer a customized distro service here, but if it was up to me, in your case I would install openbox on Debian Buster and add whatever else was needed. If that's too much trouble, then install BunsenLabs Lithium (even the current beta is quite stable) and remove what you don't need.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback, which is always appreciated.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#7 2020-03-27 20:00:04

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,982

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

And I would also like to point out that #! was certainly not "bug-free", and for a long time was not a friendly distro OOTB for Broadcom hardware. A lot of the development time for producing BL Hydrogen involved fixes and replacements of the #! setup.


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#8 2020-04-22 14:32:43

jjanderson5
Member
Registered: 2016-05-10
Posts: 89

Re: installing hydorgen deuterium - backport error messages (part2)

@johnraff

I'm sorry for the long delay in responding. Personal family issues have been detaining me.

Thank you for the detailed response. You have certainly quelled most of my concerns. I do prefer to stay on updated releases of BL. My plan is to upgrade one my PC's to Lithium, then one of my 32-bit PCs and see how things go. I suspect I will be on the forum with problems, but hopefully solutions are there. They usually are.

If I remember correctly, most of my concerns with recent releases have been with the window manager/graphics, an area which is not of interest or one in which I am very knowledgeable at all. I believe these were ultimately Debian issues, not BL issues. For me they were show stoppers. After test driving Lithium, I will get back to this thread and report, but that will be at least a month down the road, probably more.

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